US Presbyterians condemned by 34,000 black churches for allowing religious gay marriages

  • metta

    Posts: 39155

    Apr 01, 2015 6:43 AM GMT
    US Presbyterians condemned by 34,000 black churches for allowing religious gay marriages

    The National Black Church Initiative coalition of churches have declared that Presbyterians are effectively no longer Christians and have lost ‘Christ’s saving grace’ for allowing gays and lesbians to have church weddings

    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/us-presbyterians-condemned-34000-black-churches-allowing-religious-gay-marriages010415
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Apr 01, 2015 7:40 AM GMT
    No surprise there.

    It's pretty ironic that the most reliable liberal voting bloc is undisputedly the most irrationally homophobic.



    http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2013/10/03/homophobia-black-church
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Apr 01, 2015 11:57 PM GMT
    metta8 saidUS Presbyterians condemned by 34,000 black churches for allowing religious gay marriages

    The National Black Church Initiative coalition of churches have declared that Presbyterians are effectively no longer Christians and have lost ‘Christ’s saving grace’ for allowing gays and lesbians to have church weddings

    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/us-presbyterians-condemned-34000-black-churches-allowing-religious-gay-marriages010415


    It's interesting that the black churches use only one single criterion to determine whether someone is a Christian. Their opinion isn't worth a brass farthing.
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    Apr 02, 2015 12:29 AM GMT
    FRE0 said
    metta8 saidUS Presbyterians condemned by 34,000 black churches for allowing religious gay marriages

    The National Black Church Initiative coalition of churches have declared that Presbyterians are effectively no longer Christians and have lost ‘Christ’s saving grace’ for allowing gays and lesbians to have church weddings

    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/us-presbyterians-condemned-34000-black-churches-allowing-religious-gay-marriages010415

    It's interesting that the black churches use only one single criterion to determine whether someone is a Christian. Their opinion isn't worth a brass farthing.

    +1
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 02, 2015 5:53 AM GMT
    93% of the black vote went to Obama in 2012.

    67% of blacks are democrats.

    Another 11% support democrats.

    So there are lots of democrats who don't support same sex marriage.
  • metta

    Posts: 39155

    Apr 02, 2015 6:00 AM GMT
    There are also a lot of religious black people in this country that support marriage equality.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Apr 02, 2015 5:45 PM GMT
    metta8 saidThere are also a lot of religious black people in this country that support marriage equality.


    HUH? There's also a lot of gold in the oceans but try mining it.

    Really? you of all people throwing a meaningless, arbitrary and nebulous "a lot of something" into a conversation?

    I'm not going to dig for the exact figures but earlier this week I read that 74% of ALL PHYSICALLY VIOLENT GAY BASHINGS are done by blacks or hispanics.

    From that, using your laajick I guess you can still conclude a lot of black and hispanics also support marriage equality? You may be right depending on how you define a lot of or you may be wrong according the the way other define it.



  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 02, 2015 6:05 PM GMT
    It seems like there's a growing backlash against gay rights, which is leading to increased homophobia and violence. It's too bad the bigots have religion to back them. Why aren't the "moderate Christians" stepping in and saying that homophobes aren't real Christians?
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Apr 02, 2015 6:25 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidIt seems like there's a growing backlash against gay rights, which is leading to increased homophobia and violence. It's too bad the bigots have religion to back them. Why aren't the "moderate Christians" stepping in and saying that homophobes aren't real Christians?


    Answer
    The same reasons moderate Muslims don't speak up against their own fringe fundamentalists.

    1. They quietly support the fringe.
    2. They are afraid of the fringe
    3. They identify more with the the fringe's cause than its adversaries.
    4. They would prefer to watch reality TV and sitcoms than deal with reality.
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    Apr 02, 2015 6:56 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidIt seems like there's a growing backlash against gay rights, which is leading to increased homophobia and violence. It's too bad the bigots have religion to back them. Why aren't the "moderate Christians" stepping in and saying that homophobes aren't real Christians?


    To what end? No one needs a doctrinal pissing contest. As Metta8 noted there are a lot of Christians supporting gay rights.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 02, 2015 7:08 PM GMT
    swimmer_sf said
    HottJoe saidIt seems like there's a growing backlash against gay rights, which is leading to increased homophobia and violence. It's too bad the bigots have religion to back them. Why aren't the "moderate Christians" stepping in and saying that homophobes aren't real Christians?


    To what end? No one needs a doctrinal pissing contest. As Metta8 noted there are a lot of Christians supporting gay rights.

    You're an advocate of the closet, so it doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't want to challenge a homophobe's Christianity.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 02, 2015 7:08 PM GMT
    bobbobbob said
    HottJoe saidIt seems like there's a growing backlash against gay rights, which is leading to increased homophobia and violence. It's too bad the bigots have religion to back them. Why aren't the "moderate Christians" stepping in and saying that homophobes aren't real Christians?


    Answer
    The same reasons moderate Muslims don't speak up against their own fringe fundamentalists.

    1. They quietly support the fringe.
    2. They are afraid of the fringe
    3. They identify more with the the fringe's cause than its adversaries.
    4. They would prefer to watch reality TV and sitcoms than deal with reality.

    This!
  • TDSmoove

    Posts: 131

    Apr 02, 2015 7:10 PM GMT
    First question I have to those saying that most Blacks are against gay marriage... How's how many Black people do you know that have said to you that they are against gay marriage? Careful with lumping whole groups together when you really don't know what you're talking about. I can just as easily say that gay Whites only care about issues only if other gay Whites are involved.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 02, 2015 7:17 PM GMT
    TDSmoove saidFirst question I have to those saying that most Blacks are against gay marriage... How's how many Black people do you know that have said to you that they are against gay marriage? Careful with lumping whole groups together when you really don't know what you're talking about. I can just as easily say that gay Whites only care about issues only if other gay Whites are involved.

    I think the problem is religion. Unenlightened Christians of every race think gay people should be persecuted/condemned to hell. I doubt very many nonreligious people of any race would support violence against us.... But I'm sure there are a few out there.icon_sad.gif
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Apr 02, 2015 7:34 PM GMT
    I don't have any data to confirm this but it is my impression that a lot of black churches are fundamentalist. So it's no surprise that they'd have the same reading of scripture as white fundamental churches. I really don't care until they use the tools of government to impact my life. I'm sure they voted for "traditional marriage" in all the various State constitutional amendments that we're finally getting struck down (GO SCOTUS!), but otherwise, I know of no attempts to use government to harm us. If they want to pray to blue snakes and technicolor vaginas I couldn't care less so long as they don't use government to coerce me into living the way they think I should. So yes, the Dems have an anti-gay faction. But it is the Republicans who are passing laws designed (to fundraise) to (to raise the ratings of FOX) to tell me how to live my life. Besides, a majority of Republicans are against us and only a minority of Dems are. Republicans have a sneaky habit of trying to equate the two which is nonsense and disingenuous. Just more of their crazy disregard for facts and truth. They think if they say something out loud, it must be true. So they just make shit up and say it loud and often. Unfortunately, the strategy works on a lot of people who don't have the sense to go beyond headlines and bumper stickers.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Apr 02, 2015 7:50 PM GMT
    @ Destinharbor

    But they are using government indirectly in ways that may not impact YOUR life in a direct way but have an impact on society at large.

    Get acquainted with the "faith based initiative" industry that is nothing but a scam for churches to make tax free money competing with tax paying businesses. And it's gotten worse and more wide spread as it has morphed.

    It's linked into the the whole RFRA issue.

    I've been trying to educate people about this for 17 years...

    Like the Christians described above, most gays don;t want to be bothered. They prefer reality TV, Dancing with the Stars and any show exploiting a gay character than actually doing something.
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    Apr 02, 2015 9:11 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    swimmer_sf said
    HottJoe saidIt seems like there's a growing backlash against gay rights, which is leading to increased homophobia and violence. It's too bad the bigots have religion to back them. Why aren't the "moderate Christians" stepping in and saying that homophobes aren't real Christians?


    To what end? No one needs a doctrinal pissing contest. As Metta8 noted there are a lot of Christians supporting gay rights.

    You're an advocate of the closet, so it doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't want to challenge a homophobe's Christianity.


    I'm an advocate of freedom of individual thought and action, and I'm generally against the institutionalized, naive victim mentality and buzz words that you reflexively fall back on when you're confronted by the complexities of the real world. And happily I have found gay and straight people to come out to who are also respectful of and value individuality. I tend to associate your type of lock-step group think with a different generation, which I anticipate will ultimately die out.
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    Apr 02, 2015 9:57 PM GMT
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/30/businesses-serving-same-sex-couples/
    ...Whites (52%) are more likely than either blacks (36%) or Hispanics (35%) to say that businesses should be allowed to refuse services for same-sex weddings for religious reasons...

    ...Major U.S. religious groups also disagree. A strong majority of white evangelical Protestants (71%) support businesses’ right to refuse service on religious grounds, while majorities of black Protestants (59%), Catholics (57%) and people with no religious affiliation (61%) say that wedding-related businesses should be required to serve all customers...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 02, 2015 9:58 PM GMT
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/18/where-christian-churches-stand-on-gay-marriage/
    FT_15.03.18_ChurchSSM.png
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 02, 2015 9:59 PM GMT
    swimmer_sf said
    HottJoe said
    swimmer_sf said
    HottJoe saidIt seems like there's a growing backlash against gay rights, which is leading to increased homophobia and violence. It's too bad the bigots have religion to back them. Why aren't the "moderate Christians" stepping in and saying that homophobes aren't real Christians?


    To what end? No one needs a doctrinal pissing contest. As Metta8 noted there are a lot of Christians supporting gay rights.

    You're an advocate of the closet, so it doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't want to challenge a homophobe's Christianity.


    I'm an advocate of freedom of individual thought and action, and I'm generally against the institutionalized, naive victim mentality and buzz words that you reflexively fall back on when you're confronted by the complexities of the real world. And happily I have found gay and straight people to come out to who are also respectful of and value individuality. I tend to associate your type of lock-step group think with a different generation, which I anticipate will ultimately die out.

    Insult me all you want, and wish for my kind to die all you want, (am I really older than you? Two words: skin care, old man!!!), but you support homophobes and self-hating closet cases, whereas I just simply won't entertain bigots and cowards, nor will I pretend their opinions are decent or worthwhile on any level.
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    Apr 02, 2015 10:01 PM GMT
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/27/what-lgbt-americans-think-of-same-sex-marriage/
    FT_15.01.23_LGBT-2.png
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    Apr 02, 2015 10:03 PM GMT
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/07/blacks-are-lukewarm-to-gay-marriage-but-most-say-businesses-must-provide-wedding-services-to-gay-couples/
    FT_14.10.1_marriage.png
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Apr 02, 2015 10:34 PM GMT
    bobbobbob said
    HottJoe saidIt seems like there's a growing backlash against gay rights, which is leading to increased homophobia and violence. It's too bad the bigots have religion to back them. Why aren't the "moderate Christians" stepping in and saying that homophobes aren't real Christians?


    Answer
    The same reasons moderate Muslims don't speak up against their own fringe fundamentalists.

    1. They quietly support the fringe.
    2. They are afraid of the fringe
    3. They identify more with the the fringe's cause than its adversaries.
    4. They would prefer to watch reality TV and sitcoms than deal with reality.


    The fact is that moderate Muslims do speak up against their own fringe fundamentalists. They do so frequently and often. The reason many people are not aware of that is the nature of the media.

    A story about Muslims speaking up against those muslims who are barbaric is not sufficiently attention-grabbing and lurid to get adequate coverage by the media.

    Check out the following links:



    http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/think-muslims-havent-condemned-isis-think-again.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-charlie-hebdo_n_6429710.html

    http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/01/07/what-fox-wont-show-you-muslim-leaders-are-conde/202049

    http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_part_i_fatwas/

    I find it disappointing, and even shocking, that many presumably well-educated people miserably fail to look beyond the popular media to get to the truth. If they bothered to do their own research, they would find plenty of information to show that Muslims are condemning terrorism, barbarism, etc.

    Considering how many people jump to conclusions without making an adequate effort to get to the facts, we can expect serious problems which could be avoided if people were not so intellectually lazy.

  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Apr 02, 2015 10:37 PM GMT
    bobbobbob saidNo surprise there.

    It's pretty ironic that the most reliable liberal voting bloc is undisputedly the most irrationally homophobic.



    http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2013/10/03/homophobia-black-church


    And they don't seem to mind a Voodoo cantation while at it. ;-)
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Apr 02, 2015 10:39 PM GMT
    TDSmoove saidFirst question I have to those saying that most Blacks are against gay marriage... How's how many Black people do you know that have said to you that they are against gay marriage? Careful with lumping whole groups together when you really don't know what you're talking about. I can just as easily say that gay Whites only care about issues only if other gay Whites are involved.


    You do make a valid point. The fact that many high-profile black religious leaders does not prove that the majority of blacks are opposed to same-sex marriage since it is possible that the leaders are not typical of other black people. Whether there is a credible survey of blacks to determine what their attitudes are I don't know.