Iran nuclear talks: 'framework' deal agreed

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 02, 2015 6:08 PM GMT
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/apr/02/iran-talks-framework-deal-announcement-eu-live

    Many Iranians are anxiously waiting to see the results of Iran nuclear talks in Lausanne as it will affect the lives of ordinary people across the country, writes our Iran correspondent Saeed Kamali Dehghan:
    CBmcGsGW0AEmoP0.jpg:large
    "They hope that a possible agreement, if reached, would end years of international isolation, economic hardship under sanctions and avert the threat of war."

    This is great news. Provided the Iranians stick to their side of the deal, there is no reason why it should not succeed. If they don't, then sanctions can be re-imposed and the Iranian government knows it cannot afford for that to happen.
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    Apr 02, 2015 6:28 PM GMT
    This is a dramatic breakthrough that goes beyond most expectations in terms of what has been agreed and how much has been made public, writes Julian Borger:

    "In this deal, Iran has undertaken to carry out a 75% reduction in its uranium enrichment infrastructure, from 19,000 installed centrifuges to just over 5,000 in the Natanz enrichment plant.

    It will reduce its stockpile of enriched uranium from about 8 tons to 300 kg. This is a big cut in the nuclear programme. It would extend Iran’s breakout time to a year, and Iran could reach that point in as little as six months. At that point, the overwhelming bulk of sanctions would be lifted and Iran would re-enter the world economy.

    This is not a signed deal, however. It only becomes a formal international agreement at the end of June, if the full text, with all its technical annexes, can be finalised in time. But these are the broad compromises that had to be made in order to end a 13-year nuclear standoff."
  • Hypertrophile

    Posts: 1021

    Apr 02, 2015 8:47 PM GMT
    I'm Anxious to see how they will spin this to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
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    Apr 02, 2015 9:16 PM GMT
    Physiqueflex saidI'm Anxious to see how they will spin this to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


    Well, it rather destroys the narrative of the Right, that Obama and the Europeans were caving-in to the Iranians. Clearly, this is no cave-in.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Apr 02, 2015 9:31 PM GMT
    The Iranians acted more responsibly in all of this than the Republican Party. One of the big sticking points, I hear, for the Iranians was an intangible; they wanted respect. Maybe we've finally gotten past the Axis of Evil damage caused by Bush and his neocon buddies and echoed so effectively by Republicans today. I hope the Republican Congress doesn't fuck it up just to try to harm Obama. I'm sure some of them want to....
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    Apr 02, 2015 9:37 PM GMT
    If the long-time left-wing Manchester Guardian were as great a paper as its supporters claim it is, wouldn't it have reported the details of this agreement? I'll wait for those to be fully disclosed before speaking further on it, but from what little I've heard so far it has all the makings of another Munich. What is known, however, is that yet another "deadline" wasn't met and has apparently been given an open extension.
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    Apr 02, 2015 10:17 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidIf the long-time left-wing Manchester Guardian were as great a paper as its supporters claim it is, wouldn't it have reported the details of this agreement? I'll wait for those to be fully disclosed before speaking further on it, but from what little I've heard so far it has all the makings of another Munich. What is known, however, is that yet another "deadline" wasn't met and has apparently been given an open extension.


    While far from perfect, The Guardian has more journalistic integrity in one page than the likes of Fox News manages to produce in one year.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 04, 2015 5:06 AM GMT
    AyaTrolLiar> Netanyahu

    Why always him and never any of the Arab leaders?

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/arab-reaction-to-iran-nuclear-agreement-reflects-regions-sharp-divide-1428021323


  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 04, 2015 5:09 AM GMT
    What has been "agreed" to is only a "framework".
    No agreement has been signed.

    My sources indicate that Khamenei is against a deal that doesn't immediately remove all sanctions.
    I call that a non-starter. He wants all the rewards on July 1st, before Iran has complied with a single iota of any agreement.


    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-01-14/boeing-s-30-000-pound-bunker-buster-improved-u-s-says

    It has been further improved this year.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 04, 2015 10:22 AM GMT
    I think the key factor here is that the Iranian government is under intense economic pressure and pressure from its own people to complete the deal. Of course, it does not suit the narrative of the GOP to acknowledge that Obama's sanctions are working.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Apr 04, 2015 10:30 PM GMT
    pouncer saidDuring the sanctions period Iran went from less than 200 centrifuges to about 19,000, giving them enough fissile material for multiple atomic bombs over the last 10 years. The framework deal agreed Thursday allows for the retention of 6,104 - over 30 times the number pre-sanctions.

    As for the Iranian people, they overwhelmingly back their government on the nuclear issue. Their concerns are for greater civil and political rights, not undermining the prospects for national scientific and economic advancement that an autonomous nuclear industry can bring.


    any nation with a functional nuclear power industry can build a bomb, it's really not that difficult these days

    building one small enough to sit on top of a missile is a different story, but making a bomb is relatively easy

  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 7:06 AM GMT
    AyaTrolLiar> Netanyahu

    Why always him and never any of the Arab leaders?

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/arab-reaction-to-iran-nuclear-agreement-reflects-regions-sharp-divide-1428021323

    AyaTrolLiar> Who cares what a bunch of regional despots have to say?

    From the article:

    || Arab officials and people across the region say.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 7:08 AM GMT
    pouncer saidDuring the sanctions period Iran went from less than 200 centrifuges to about 19,000, giving them enough fissile material for multiple atomic bombs over the last 10 years. The framework deal agreed Thursday allows for the retention of 6,104 - over 30 times the number pre-sanctions.

    So this is your criticism of the potential agreement or...?
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    Apr 05, 2015 11:00 AM GMT
    pouncer said
    As for the Iranian people, they overwhelmingly back their government on the nuclear issue. Their concerns are for greater civil and political rights, not undermining the prospects for national scientific and economic advancement that an autonomous nuclear industry can bring.


    I am sure they do overwhelmingly back the government on the nuclear issue. I am also sure that, given Iran's recent history, they recognize the international community's anxiety as to Iran's future intentions and the need for a robust IAEA inspection arrangement. If you have nothing to hide regarding your nuclear programme, what's the problem with allowing inspectors to monitor it?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 05, 2015 11:33 AM GMT
    pouncer said
    That's true, but you have to consider that over the last 10 years Iran has been subject to a more rigorous nuclear inspections regime than any other country on Earth besides Japan. Iran has just signed a preliminary deal that would see that regime become even more stringent.

    There is only one country in the region that hasn't signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty, refuses access to IAEA inspectors, and constitutes the one obstacle to the creation of a Nuclear Weapons Free Zone in the Middle East, and that is Israel.


    Iran has also been found wanting and the IAEA has recently issued a report criticizing Iran for not fully cooperating with an investigation into its nuclear programme. Why the need for conflating Iran's nuclear programme with what is happening in Israel? Why can't Iran 'rise above' Israel and cooperate fully with the IAEA?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 12:45 PM GMT
    AyaTrolLiar> over the last 10 years Iran has been subject to a more rigorous nuclear inspections regime than any other country on Earth except I think Japan.

    I haven't heard the Japanese complain, but the ugly fact that the AyaTrolLiar is bent on denying is that Iran has been caught, repeatedly, violating its obligations.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/666082


    AyaTrolLiar> There is only one country in the region that hasn't signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty, refuses access to IAEA inspectors....

    Of Iran's immediate neighbors, you must be talking about Pakistan, right?
    (Not India, I don't think.)
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 12:49 PM GMT
    ROTFL. Pakistan is 0 miles from Iran, and definitely in "the region".
    That you in turn only focus on Israel speaks volumes.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 12:50 PM GMT
    pouncer said
    mwolverine said
    pouncer saidDuring the sanctions period Iran went from less than 200 centrifuges to about 19,000, giving them enough fissile material for multiple atomic bombs over the last 10 years. The framework deal agreed Thursday allows for the retention of 6,104 - over 30 times the number pre-sanctions.

    So this is your criticism of the potential agreement or...?

    Not at all. Why would I criticize Iran's right to enrich peaceful nuclear energy?

    ROTFL. You claim to (at rare times) be critical of Iran, then why not be critical of their violations of the NPT?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 1:07 PM GMT
    Again, Pakistan is 0 miles from Iran, in "the region", and you have yet to mention their nuclear weapons.
    It is clear you are sick with hate for exactly one country, the Jewish state.
    Just as you have shown you hate all things Jewish.
    Judaism the Jewish religion, Hebrew the Jewish language, Jewish holidays, Jewish history, etc.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1443151

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4015076


    Why not be critical of Iran's violations of the NPT?

    AyaTrolLiar> If they have "violated" the NPT (as opposed to mere suspicions), then I condemn it. The difference between me and you is that I condemn all violators of the NPT

    Which shows us the sickness of hate by which he is consumed: "IF"?
    Even my Iranian friends openly admit this is the case.
    Yet not once has the AyaTrolLiar "condemn[ed]" it in 7 years on RJ.
    To the contrary, he either outright denies it or pretends to with "If".

    Dismissed.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 1:21 PM GMT
    See? Despite the evidence, he still can't bring himself to admit that Iran has repeatedly, over decades, been caught - red-handed - violating the NPT.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/666082

    That's how much he really cares about the NPT.
    Once again the AyaTrolLiar is caught selectively appealing to a faux standard.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 1:31 PM GMT
    There he goes again, pathologically sick as ever:

    Despite the evidence (which is not in the least dubious, such as the existence of undeclared sites which even the Iranian regime itself now admits to and are part of the negotiations), he still can't bring himself to admit that Iran has repeatedly, over decades, been caught - red-handed - violating the NPT.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/666082

    That's how much he really cares about the NPT.
    Once again the AyaTrolLiar is caught selectively appealing to a faux standard.


    AyaTrolLiar> Israel... Israel... Israel...

    ROTFL.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 1:40 PM GMT
    Your diversions are of no consequence and only prove my point.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 4:04 PM GMT
    Your diversions are of no consequence and only prove my point, moreso with each repetition of yours.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 4:05 PM GMT
    There he goes again, pathologically sick as ever:

    Despite the evidence (which is not in the least dubious, such as the existence of undeclared sites which even the Iranian regime itself now admits to and are part of the negotiations), he still can't bring himself to admit that Iran has repeatedly, over decades, been caught - red-handed - violating the NPT.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/666082

    That's how much he really cares about the NPT.
    Once again the AyaTrolLiar is caught selectively appealing to a faux standard.


    AyaTrolLiar> Israel... Israel... Israel...

    ROTFL.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 05, 2015 10:52 PM GMT
    Yet another display of mental madness from our resident yet unaccomplished flunkie.

    No amount of his childish antics and diversions will change this - on topic - fact:

    Despite the evidence (which is not in the least dubious, such as the existence of undeclared sites which even the Iranian regime itself now admits to and are part of the negotiations), he still can't bring himself to admit that Iran has repeatedly, over decades, been caught - red-handed - violating the NPT.