Sometimes Helping Gay Guys May Be a Lost Cause

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 12:11 AM GMT
    I tried to help this guy, I think late 20s. His hobby was building doll houses, so I gave him a Dremel tool set, worth hundreds. Then he broke his cell phone, so I gave him an iPhone, with the same carrier he was using. I also spent time with him, trying to guide him. But I know, I was more like his grandfather, with about as much influence. I was likely wasting my time, he needed to be mentored by someone his own age.

    And so today I learned he had a drunken brawl, and his local employer was called to pick him up, passed out. I'm not even sure why that guy bothered. And I understand he's lost his job.

    I dunno. You try to help these guys, but it's obviously beyond my skills. It just tears me apart, to fail, and see the train wrecks that ensue.

    I've kinda reached the point (and my husband is insisting) where I'm not gonna help anyone anymore. It all comes to naught, despite my best intentions. I'm very discouraged at this moment. icon_sad.gif
  • Import

    Posts: 7185

    Apr 10, 2015 12:13 AM GMT
    No good deed goes unpunished, Art.
    Which is why it's my philosophy to never help anyone. it's just not worth it.

    And I mean... building doll houses? lol, girl, please. icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 12:19 AM GMT
    Years from now when he reflects on this he will realize what best friends he had in you. And that kindnesses are worth it not because of any immediate rewards.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Apr 10, 2015 12:27 AM GMT
    You haven't gotten better at spotting people who would actually benefit from your help?

    How many years have you been helping young men? What do you get out of it?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 12:42 AM GMT
    Import saidNo good deed goes unpunished, Art.
    Which is why it's my philosophy to never help anyone. it's just not worth it.

    And I mean... building doll houses? lol, girl, please. icon_lol.gif

    Actually he's built some miniatures. Which was kinda a connection between us, because I once built them myself.

    And I also made parts for them that others bought, mostly scale-model floors I built, so they could complete their own houses. But 40 years ago I loved woodworking of all kinds, and also made musical instruments, and wooden kids toys. But that's another story...

    So OK, I let myself be moved by compassion, not my usual cold harshness. I'll tell yah, I'm seldom rewarded for being compassionate or generous. I've also gifted RJ guys here, at Christmas and other times, guys whom I understood were in a needy situation.

    And I got not so much as a thank you afterwards. It's kinda turned me off to helping anyone anymore. Except through a few gay agencies I support. Let the recipients thank them, not me, if they even do that. If they're gay I wonder if "thank you" is even in their vocabulary. icon_confused.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 12:57 AM GMT
    lots of young guys go thru this. especially if they are in the process of coming out.

    I went through something similar. and when I look back on it, I think to myself, "man, those "old" guys were right". the older I get, the more I began to really understand a lot of what they were saying. one of my best friends from where I used to live in Louisiana is almost 30 years older than me. I wish I had his advice sooner.

    some guys can be "reached" some guys can't. i'm not all about giving handouts (free phones, cars, etc.) but the advice sometimes can go a long way.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Apr 10, 2015 12:58 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said

    So OK, I let myself be moved by compassion, not my usual cold harshness. I'll tell yah, I'm seldom rewarded for being compassionate or generous.

    I've also gifted RJ guys here, at Christmas and other times, guys whom I understood were in a needy situation. And I got not so much as a thank you afterwards.


    Anyone whose compassion and help are doled out with an expectation of gratitude isn't in it for giving compassion or help. They are, as they admit with their own words, in it for the gratitude and ego food they expect in return.

    That's the wrong reasons to help others and show compassion. If you expect anything in return for the kindness and to help you extend to others you're not doing it to help them. Admit it and see yourself as the egocentric self centered shallow bitch that you are.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 1:02 AM GMT
    I knew he was a lost cause as soon as I read "he builds doll houses." icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 1:17 AM GMT
    willular said
    some guys can be "reached" some guys can't. i'm not all about giving handouts (free phones, cars, etc.) but the advice sometimes can go a long way.

    I only give handouts when a guy might need them. This guy broke his iPhone. So I gave him a replacement, because he couldn't afford one. And in today's world, being without a cell phone is like being in isolation. I gave him an iPhone so he could be functional again and move forward.

    Now whether he does that or not is another question. I'm beginning to doubt it. But I gave him a chance he didn't have 2 days ago. Not just about a stupid cell phone, but more than that. If he squanders it the blame is on him, not me. We have thrown every kind of lifeline out to this "kid" and I don't know what else we can do.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 1:41 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Those who are truly charitable keep their charitable acts private and don't go blabbing about it all over the place.

    Actually one does, unless you're someone like yourself you contributes zero to the gay community, and in fact denigrate it.

    My reasons & purposes are these:

    - encouraging others to do the same as I and others do in supporting LGBT
    - identifying those who are in particular need in our LGBT community
    - linking sites that serve our LGBT community, especially those who are dealing with HIV/AIDS

    Now I realize this runs contrary to your own anti-gay agenda. Which we've seen for quite a number of years here.

    "Those who are truly charitable keep their charitable acts private"

    So private that they're nonexistent, regarding your own charitable acts to gay issues.

    Rather, one does mention them, so that others may do the same.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 1:46 AM GMT
    bobbobbob said
    Anyone whose compassion and help are doled out with an expectation of gratitude isn't in it for giving compassion or help. They are, as they admit with their own words, in it for the gratitude and ego food they expect in return.

    That's the wrong reasons to help others and show compassion. If you expect anything in return for the kindness and to help you extend to others you're not doing it to help them. Admit it and see yourself as the egocentric self centered shallow bitch that you are.



    Fuck off, creep
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 1:54 AM GMT
    willular said
    some guys can be "reached" some guys can't. i'm not all about giving handouts (free phones, cars, etc.) but the advice sometimes can go a long way.

    In this case I think this guy may also have some substance abuse issues, but I dunno. And that's something I have no competency to address.

    Sad to see a young man (and he's rather good looking) just destroying himself. And I have no skills to prevent it. My husband & I just have to stand by and watch the train wreck.

    Which upsets us a great deal. Because he's a lovely kid, and there's nothing we can do to prevent what's happening. I tried, and I failed.

    DAMN!!! I hate to see a young guy melt down in front of us. If I had the authority to do an intervention I would, but I don't. So I have to stand by and and watch it happen. It rips me apart. icon_sad.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 2:21 AM GMT
    I've said (more than once) that the older I get the more disinclined I was to save people. No good deed goes unpunished.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 10:12 AM GMT
    eagermuscle saidI've said (more than once) that the older I get the more disinclined I was to save people. No good deed goes unpunished.

    Well, if not unpunished, certainly unappreciated, unrecognized, and unthanked. I should learn how to sit back detached and watch amused as these young kids spiral into self-destruction. I'm learning there's nothing I can do to stop it, except waste my time & money, so I might as well enjoy the show. icon_biggrin.gif
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    Apr 10, 2015 10:42 AM GMT
    I tried to help a drug user who was homeless.
    I told him if he kicked his habit and found a job he could live with me for free until he got back on his feet.
    He chose the Heroin in the end never saw him again.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 11:11 AM GMT
    venue35 saidI tried to help a drug user who was homeless.
    I told him if he kicked his habit and found a job he could live with me for free until he got back on his feet.
    He chose the Heroin in the end never saw him again.

    There you are. The best we can do is nudge them to professional help. Few of us here are adequately trained to help these guys, so it's a fool's errand.

    I learn that over and over again. I won't give these guys money, that's the worst thing to do. Instead I give them the tools & contacts they need in our modern world, to search for jobs and stay in touch. Otherwise they become disconnected and soon find themselves living under a bridge.

    But some guys are beyond my limited abilities. And it kills me to be so ineffective. I've got to learn that most of these guys are lost causes from the git-go, and to just turn my back, and not trouble myself about them.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    Apr 10, 2015 11:23 AM GMT
    Yes but the iPhone and the tools that you gave him cost money. Some people just don't appreciate anything.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 11:27 AM GMT
    venue35 saidI tried to help a drug user who was homeless.
    I told him if he kicked his habit and found a job he could live with me for free until he got back on his feet.
    He chose the Heroin in the end never saw him again.

    This is what I'm learning: you can throw lifelines, but some guys won't take them. And so they drown.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 12:50 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    willular said
    some guys can be "reached" some guys can't. i'm not all about giving handouts (free phones, cars, etc.) but the advice sometimes can go a long way.

    In this case I think this guy may also have some substance abuse issues, but I dunno. And that's something I have no competency to address.

    Sad to see a young man (and he's rather good looking) just destroying himself. And I have no skills to prevent it. My husband & I just have to stand by and watch the train wreck.

    Which upsets us a great deal. Because he's a lovely kid, and there's nothing we can do to prevent what's happening. I tried, and I failed.

    DAMN!!! I hate to see a young guy melt down in front of us. If I had the authority to do an intervention I would, but I don't. So I have to stand by and and watch it happen. It rips me apart. icon_sad.gif


    substance abuse is a whole 'nother world that takes professional help.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 3:14 PM GMT
    Many people need to hit 'rock bottom', before they realize for themselves, the steps that brought them there. There's beauty in self-determination, and though it takes many forms, it's always the better gift. Aid those whom are being oppressed, by fighting for a system without oppressor.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 3:16 PM GMT
    pazzy saidWhy would you give someone a tool set worth hundreds and a iPhone though in order to help them? Spoiling somebody is not helping them ir mentoring them. Sounds like you were corrupting him.

    We all need a cell phone in today's world in order to communicate. He had no other phone when his own was broken, and couldn't afford a replacement.

    As for the Dremel tool set, this young man builds miniatures as a hobby, as I did at that same age. A good way to keep him home and out of the gay bars. Not to mention a little income for him, since he's sold some.

    No, I put some thought into what I give to guys, not random largesse, and never cash. Another guy I know, closer to my own age, has previously made his living as a writer. His notebook computer was stolen out of his car, and then his cell phone got broken shortly afterwards. He couldn't afford to replace either of them, crippling him.

    So I gave him a MacBook Pro, and an iPhone. He's working again, able to support himself today. Oh, and I also found him a lovely apartment at a shockingly low rate for this area, when he was about to be evicted from his last place when all this happened, including a disabling major injury.

    It's not spoiling anyone. It's trying to get them back on their feet when they're down. Nobody **I** know is going to end up living under a bridge, if I have anything to say about it.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Apr 10, 2015 3:17 PM GMT
    pazzy saidWhy would you give someone a tool set worth hundreds and a iPhone though in order to help them? Spoiling somebody is not helping them ir mentoring them. Sounds like you were corrupting him.


    I think they call it "enabling". I learned long ago that trying to help someone is useless (especially if drug and alcohol issues are involved) until they truly want to help themselves.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 3:25 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    pazzy saidWhy would you give someone a tool set worth hundreds and a iPhone though in order to help them? Spoiling somebody is not helping them ir mentoring them. Sounds like you were corrupting him.

    I think they call it "enabling". I learned long ago that trying to help someone is useless (especially if drug and alcohol issues are involved) until they truly want to help themselves.

    I agree. Read my above. My "enabling" is very carefully targeted. And specifically tailored to the needs of the individual. The last thing I do is blindly throw cash or random gifts at someone.

    The guy either helps himself. or he doesn't. I "enable" him to succeed on his own. If he fails at that, well, then I walk away. Does that formula meet your criteria?
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    Apr 10, 2015 3:28 PM GMT
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with helping people
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 10, 2015 3:29 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said

    Sad to see a young man (and he's rather good looking) just destroying himself.

    Would you have helped him if he was ugly as fuck? Not judging you, just curious. I have a theory that if you put two guys on the street begging for money and one is unattractive and one is handsome the handsome one will get more donations.