Two "ordinary Yorkshire lads" gone to Syria. One of them just happens to be the brother of a convicted terrorist.

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    Apr 11, 2015 9:27 AM GMT
    The GuardianThe families of two “ordinary Yorkshire lads” who are feared to have travelled to Syria have issued pictures of the teenagers.

    Hassan is the younger brother of Hammaad Munshi, who became Britain’s youngest convicted terrorist, after he was arrested in 2006 at the age of 15 and later convicted over his role in a plot to murder non-Muslims.

    “These were just two ordinary Yorkshire lads who enjoyed the things that all young people enjoy at their age – both Hassan and Talha had a promising future, as an apprentice and an A-level student respectively, and we are praying they will be back with us soon and are able to realise that future.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/09/families-pictures-yorkshire-teenagers-fled-syria-islamic-state


    FUCKING LOL icon_lol.gif
    The leftist media isn't even trying to be discrete anymore.

    Oi m8, just sum typical Yorkie blokes doing what blokes like to do innit?

    QltEpSM.jpg

    Lads being lads. Beheading infidels n' stuff just like you and me when we were younger.
  • ukbuilt1

    Posts: 3

    Apr 11, 2015 1:35 PM GMT
    That's funny ! - well actually it's not funny at all- but I read this quote over here in the UK last week and my reaction was exactly the same as yours. I am (was) a yorkshire lad. don't think I was ordinary but i certainly didn't have a brother who was connected to terrorism and certainly had no thought about travelling abroad to decapitate non believers of my own religion. The Guardian is the most left wing politically correct newspaper here in the UK which is sad because it wasn't always the case. Lastly, I never thought i would be writing this type of reply on this site !! Peace.
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    Apr 11, 2015 2:16 PM GMT
    It is a warning from the traumatized families of radicalized teenagers about the dangers of such radicalization.

    "The families have urged parents to be extra vigilant, saying it is near impossible to know if children have been groomed and brainwashed."

    Of course it is worrying, but it is a relatively rare occurrence and I would be more worried if these families were saying nothing. The vast majority of British Asians are decent, hard working and law abiding people.

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    Apr 11, 2015 2:39 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidIt is a warning from the traumatized families of radicalized teenagers about the dangers of such radicalization.

    "The families have urged parents to be extra vigilant, saying it is near impossible to know if children have been groomed and brainwashed."

    Of course it is worrying, but it is a relatively rare occurrence and I would be more worried if these families were saying nothing. The vast majority of British Asians are decent, hard working and law abiding people.



    I don't know why people always bring up the term "hard working" and "law abiding". Most people are hard working and law abiding because if you aren't you probably end up in poverty or in jail and nobody likes that. The issue here is not how many hours Muslims work in a week or how many parking tickets they have.

    I have a really hard time believing these guys were radicalized by some outside influence or an internet forum. Two brothers? I wonder how many times the topics of western decadence, white whores, rotten British morality and Islamic supremacy came up around that family's dinner table. And more importantly, how many hard working and law abiding Muslim families in your country will be having those same conversations tonight.
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    Apr 11, 2015 3:19 PM GMT
    AaronH20P said
    I don't know why people always bring up the term "hard working" and "law abiding". Most people are hard working and law abiding because if you aren't you probably end up in poverty or in jail and nobody likes that. The issue here is not how many hours Muslims work in a week or how many parking tickets they have.

    I have a really hard time believing these guys were radicalized by some outside influence or an internet forum. Two brothers? I wonder how many times the topics of western decadence, white whores, rotten British morality and Islamic supremacy came up around that family's dinner table. And more importantly, how many hard working and law abiding Muslim families in your country will be having those same conversations tonight.


    People tend to bring up the term "hard working and law abiding" when other people try to make sweeping generalizations about a particular racial or cultural group, based upon the actions of a few members of that group.

    What you find hard to believe is neither here nor there. I wonder how many times bigoted topics come up around the dinner tables of American Bible Belt Christians. Most of their kids probably won't go out and bash or kill a gay person as a result, but some have and will do so again.
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    Apr 11, 2015 4:16 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    AaronH20P said
    I don't know why people always bring up the term "hard working" and "law abiding". Most people are hard working and law abiding because if you aren't you probably end up in poverty or in jail and nobody likes that. The issue here is not how many hours Muslims work in a week or how many parking tickets they have.

    I have a really hard time believing these guys were radicalized by some outside influence or an internet forum. Two brothers? I wonder how many times the topics of western decadence, white whores, rotten British morality and Islamic supremacy came up around that family's dinner table. And more importantly, how many hard working and law abiding Muslim families in your country will be having those same conversations tonight.


    People tend to bring up the term "hard working and law abiding" when other people try to make sweeping generalizations about a particular racial or cultural group, based upon the actions of a few members of that group.

    What you find hard to believe is neither here nor there. I wonder how many times bigoted topics come up around the dinner tables of American Bible Belt Christians. Most of their kids probably won't go out and bash or kill a gay person as a result, but some have and will do so again.


    Sorry, but it is not just "here nor there;" it's everywhere. Assigning these positive terms to people w/o any knowledge of them personally, and in disregard of their demonstrated and dangerous cultural traits generally, is itself a sweeping generalization. And, more often than not, it's not based just "upon the actions of a few members of that group;" anyone who can't see a pattern here is intentionally disregarding the facts. Keeping a close watch on these people is the best vigilance there is, much as the Southern Poverty Law Center in the US does on what it - if not everyone else - views as "hate" groups (which may or may not include "American Bible Belt Christians," however widely that term is defined or cast about). And kudos to ukbuilt1 for confirming the Guardian's leftist agenda.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Apr 11, 2015 4:43 PM GMT
    lol yeah 2 ordinary Yorkshire lads, at first I thought their names were George and Ringo
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    Apr 11, 2015 4:55 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    Sorry, but it is not just "here nor there;" it's everywhere. Assigning these positive terms to people w/o any knowledge of them personally, and in disregard of their demonstrated and dangerous cultural traits generally, is itself a sweeping generalization. And, more often than not, it's not based just "upon the actions of a few members of that group;" anyone who can't see a pattern here is intentionally disregarding the facts. Keeping a close watch on these people is the best vigilance there is, much as the Southern Poverty Law Center in the US does on what it - if not everyone else - views as "hate" groups (which may or may not include "American Bible Belt Christians," however widely that term is defined or cast about). And kudos to ukbuilt1 for confirming the Guardian's leftist agenda.


    As it happens, I was born in West Yorkshire (the same County as the youths in the article are from) and I have spent almost half my life there, so I do have some personal knowledge here. If you spoke to most British Asians in West Yorkshire about their 'dangerous cultural traits' they would probably laugh at you.

    Of course there is reason to be concerned about the radicalization of young Muslims, but that is exactly what the families of these young men are cautioning against. The police, security services and many within the British Muslim community are working hard to counter this threat. What do you suggest we do, intern 5% of the UK population, because some of them express sympathy with radical Islam and a fraction of those want to go and fight for ISIS?

    As for the Guardian, of course it is a left-leaning newspaper. Why the need for confirmation? As I've said before, its generally high standards of journalism make the likes of Fox News look comical.
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    Apr 11, 2015 5:04 PM GMT
    The West sure is heading towards a bright future:



    Is this enough cultural enrichment or would you like some more?
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    Apr 11, 2015 5:26 PM GMT
    ^
    No explanation as to context, what they are doing or why they are doing it. We only have the poster's word that it is 'muslim children on the school run' and I doubt his motives, or yours, are entirely honourable. They might be attending a once-a-year religious festival for all we know.

    I could just as easily post a random 'disturbing' video of American children wearing skeleton masks and terrorizing old people by knocking on their doors (aka Halloween). I could call it "What American Children do in Their Spare Time".
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    Apr 11, 2015 6:03 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said^
    No explanation as to context, what they are doing or why they are doing it. We only have the poster's word that it is 'muslim children on the school run' and I doubt his motives, or yours, are entirely honourable. They might be attending a once-a-year religious festival for all we know.

    I could just as easily post a random 'disturbing' video of American children wearing skeleton masks and terrorizing old people by knocking on their doors (aka Halloween). I could call it "What American Children do in Their Spare Time".


    Reminds me of a scene from "Village of the Damned." Why in the world did you let these people in, UK? And, why are we in the US?

    To respond in kind, ExMil, Halloween is hardly as terrifying as Guy Fawkes Day, so please to remember the Fifth of November isn't exactly the quietest time of year in the UK.
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    Apr 11, 2015 7:11 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidWhy in the world did you let these people in, UK? And, why are we in the US?

    To respond in kind, ExMil, Halloween is hardly as terrifying as Guy Fawkes Day, so please to remember the Fifth of November isn't exactly the quietest time of year in the UK.


    I was just using Halloween as an example. I know we have equally odd traditions here in the UK. I am not trying to turn this into a UK v US contest. I know that is the OP's intention. You see, he is a Southbeach shill. Southbeach (and, to a lesser extent, socal) have been ranting for years about how a Brit has the audacity be interested in US politics and to criticize US conservatives.

    So, of course, someone came up with the 'cunning' idea of getting an 'American' on here to criticize UK liberals and the UK 'liberal media'. Not just criticize, but come up with ever more lurid thread titles they knew would provoke a response. Well, I am happy to debate UK politics with Americans or with anyone else for that matter. That includes with reasonably polite and low-key people like you, MGINSD, or with ranting children like the OP.
  • training_guy

    Posts: 270

    Apr 11, 2015 7:21 PM GMT
    Good riddance & don't come back. Oh & deport the families for good measure.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Apr 11, 2015 7:26 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said^
    No explanation as to context, what they are doing or why they are doing it. We only have the poster's word that it is 'muslim children on the school run' and I doubt his motives, or yours, are entirely honourable. They might be attending a once-a-year religious festival for all we know.

    Visiting my mother in 2013 in France I witnessed two similar episodes as in the video Aaron posted; school children down to age five parading along busy commercial streets droning the Takbir. under the guard of men who were certainly not teachers. That same year I witnessed a nearly identical display in Knoxville, Tennessee near the UT campus at ten in a Sunday morning. MGINSD is correct in saying, "it is not just "here nor there;" it's everywhere." And it is not ever for any annual religious festival as some apologists would prefer us to believe.

    Then we have this...

    Ex_Mil8 said
    I wonder how many times bigoted topics come up around the dinner tables of American Bible Belt Christians. Most of their kids probably won't go out and bash or kill a gay person as a result, but some have and will do so again.

    ...and this....
    Ex_Mil8 said
    I could just as easily post a random 'disturbing' video of American children wearing skeleton masks and terrorizing old people by knocking on their doors (aka Halloween). I could call it "What American Children do in Their Spare Time".

    Which are unsubstantiated stereotypes that underscore how fragmented lore or myth along with media bias are relied upon to form opinions of many who speaking of people beyond their immediate milieu, their preferred circles of association and their own personal biases.

    Bigotry: a state of mind where a person obstinately, irrationally, unfairly or intolerantly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. Some examples include personal beliefs, race, ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, disability, sexual orientation, political affiliations, socioeconomic status, or other group characteristics.




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    Apr 11, 2015 7:36 PM GMT
    bobbobbob said
    Then we have this...
    Ex_Mil8 said
    I wonder how many times bigoted topics come up around the dinner tables of American Bible Belt Christians. Most of their kids probably won't go out and bash or kill a gay person as a result, but some have and will do so again.

    ...and this....
    Ex_Mil8 said
    I could just as easily post a random 'disturbing' video of American children wearing skeleton masks and terrorizing old people by knocking on their doors (aka Halloween). I could call it "What American Children do in Their Spare Time".

    Which are unsubstantiated stereotypes


    Had you not speed-read them out of context, you would have seen they were intended to be unsubstantiated stereotypes, in order to illustrate the OP's reliance on the same thing.
  • ASHDOD

    Posts: 1057

    Apr 11, 2015 8:52 PM GMT
    europeans must find a way to clean the shit-hole situation they careved to themselvs.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Apr 11, 2015 9:04 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    Had you not speed-read them out of context, you would have seen they were intended to be unsubstantiated stereotypes, in order to illustrate the OP's reliance on the same thing.


    "them"(used above) = plural as in more than one, right?
    Well, now you're trying to retrofit a justification onto something you said by inferring it was in response to something that was done after it.


    Timestamp: Apr 11, 2015 9:19 AM
    Ex_Mil8 said
    What you find hard to believe is neither here nor there. I wonder how many times bigoted topics come up around the dinner tables of American Bible Belt Christians. Most of their kids probably won't go out and bash or kill a gay person as a result, but some have and will do so again.


    Timestamp: Apr 11, 2015 11:04 AM

    AaronH20P posted the video.

    Timestamp: Apr 11, 2015 11:26 AM
    Ex_Mil8 said^
    I could just as easily post a random 'disturbing' video of American children wearing skeleton masks and terrorizing old people by knocking on their doors (aka Halloween). I could call it "What American Children do in Their Spare Time".



    Okay.
    Here's a 2nd bite at the apple.
    Can you please define and point out the exact unsubstantiated stereotypes that you accuse AaronH20P is guilty of spreading?


    Bigot:a person who strongly, unfairly or irrationally dislikes other people, their ideas, beliefs etc. A person who hates or refuses to accept or tolerate members of a particular group.
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    Apr 11, 2015 9:35 PM GMT
    ^
    You can clearly see which of his posts I was responding to and the context in which I was replying. Or is this pedantry another of your idiotic games?

  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Apr 11, 2015 9:59 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said^
    You can clearly see which of his posts I was responding to and the context in which I was replying. Or is this pedantry another of your idiotic games?


    Thanks for you standard evasive maneuvers to straightforward questions. I won $20 thanks to it. Now all I have to do is collect it.
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    Apr 11, 2015 10:03 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    MGINSD saidWhy in the world did you let these people in, UK? And, why are we in the US?

    To respond in kind, ExMil, Halloween is hardly as terrifying as Guy Fawkes Day, so please to remember the Fifth of November isn't exactly the quietest time of year in the UK.


    I was just using Halloween as an example. I know we have equally odd traditions here in the UK. I am not trying to turn this into a UK v US contest. I know that is the OP's intention. You see, he is a Southbeach shill. Southbeach (and, to a lesser extent, socal) have been ranting for years about how a Brit has the audacity be interested in US politics and to criticize US conservatives.

    So, of course, someone came up with the 'cunning' idea of getting an 'American' on here to criticize UK liberals and the UK 'liberal media'. Not just criticize, but come up with ever more lurid thread titles they knew would provoke a response. Well, I am happy to debate UK politics with Americans or with anyone else for that matter. That includes with reasonably polite and low-key people like you, MGINSD, or with ranting children like the OP.


    No worries, mate! You're talking to one of the world's most devoted Anglophiles!
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 12, 2015 12:05 AM GMT
    AaronH20P said
    The GuardianThe families of two “ordinary Yorkshire lads” who are feared to have travelled to Syria have issued pictures of the teenagers.

    Hassan is the younger brother of Hammaad Munshi, who became Britain’s youngest convicted terrorist, after he was arrested in 2006 at the age of 15 and later convicted over his role in a plot to murder non-Muslims.

    “These were just two ordinary Yorkshire lads who enjoyed the things that all young people enjoy at their age – both Hassan and Talha had a promising future, as an apprentice and an A-level student respectively, and we are praying they will be back with us soon and are able to realise that future.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/09/families-pictures-yorkshire-teenagers-fled-syria-islamic-state


    FUCKING LOL icon_lol.gif
    The leftist media isn't even trying to be discrete anymore.

    Oi m8, just sum typical Yorkie blokes doing what blokes like to do innit?

    QltEpSM.jpg

    Lads being lads. Beheading infidels n' stuff just like you and me when we were younger.


    "These were just two ordinary Yorkshire lads who enjoyed the things that all young people enjoy at their age - both Hassan and Talha had a promising future as an apprentice and an A-level student respectively, and we are praying they will be back with us soon and are able to realise that future."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3029854/Families-shock-Syria-boys.html

    FUCKING LOL
    The right-wing media isn't even trying to be DISCREET anymore.


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    Apr 12, 2015 12:22 AM GMT
    Am not sure that Europe has a monopoly on this problem. A small group of Americans have joined ISIS. One is described below.

    22JIHADIST_COMBO1-master675.jpg

    NYT: Reading back over Abdi Nur’s Twitter feed, his chilling progression from the basketball courts of South Minneapolis to the battlefields of Syria is clear.

    On May 29, 2014, the day he disappeared, he posted, “I Thank Allah For Everything No Matter What!” Soon he was in Turkey, rebuffing his mother’s and sister’s anguished pleas to come home. In late July, he declared, “What A Beautiful Day in Raqqa,” the de facto capital of the Islamic State in Syria. Last Aug. 7, he posted a picture of himself online with his finger on the trigger of a Kalashnikov.

    Mr. Nur had become one of a small number of Americans enticed by the apocalyptic religious promise of the self-described Islamic State, which has seized large sections of Syria and Iraq and claims to be building a caliphate.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/world/middleeast/from-minneapolis-to-isis-an-americans-path-to-jihad.html
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4863

    Apr 12, 2015 12:53 AM GMT
    AaronH20P saidThe West sure is heading towards a bright future:



    Is this enough cultural enrichment or would you like some more?


    If the Muslim teachers there had any sense and cultural sensitivity, they would discourage the children from chanting like that. It is senseless.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4863

    Apr 12, 2015 1:27 AM GMT
    Suppose a group of Christian children were, while walking along a public sidewalk, encouraged to chant, "Jesus saves!". In most countries, that would be considered inappropriate and in bad taste. If they did it in a majority Muslim or Hindu country, or even in Israel, probably they would wish that they hadn't.

    Some Muslim with good sense and an awareness of public relations should give the leaders of those children a good dressing down!
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Apr 12, 2015 3:41 AM GMT
    FRE0 said
    If the Muslim teachers there had any sense and cultural sensitivity, they would discourage the children from chanting like that. It is senseless.


    FRE0 said
    Some Muslim with good sense and an awareness of public relations should give the leaders of those children a good dressing down!


    Your two statements seem to show that you have an incomplete understanding of Islam and the culture it has created over the past 1400 years.

    There is no such thing as a Muslim teacher with
    :
    1."sense" in the western understanding of that word.
    2. "cultural sensitivity" that even comes close to our definition of it.

    The explanation for this can be traced directly back to Mohammed's strict and harsh admonitions in both the Quran and Hadiths that no one can ignire or alter any word or command in either without being a heretic condemned to hell or death. There over over 160 such prohibtions in the Quran alone. In other words for 1400 years there is absolutely no wiggle room for individual interpretation or application of the Islamic scriptures.

    This has literally made Islam unable to mollify itself and move out of the 7th century. It has frozen many if not most of their definitions, values and principles in the time and context that it was written; a tribe oriented socio-political ideology intermixed with religious influences both contrived and pilfered from Judaism, Christianity and the polytheistic faiths that dominated the Arabian peninsula up to the time of Mohammed.

    One great example is the origins the Islamic calendar that is still in use today. Up to the middle of Mohammed's domination of the Arabian Peninsula the very accurate calendar of Judaism was in use. Up until that time they also also prayed towards Jerusalem. In part due the refusal of Jews in Jerusalem to accept Mohammed as a prophet and pay tribute to him, he ordered his followers to pray towards Mecca, the traditional center of polytheism in all of Arabia. He also commanded a new calendar for Islam. Since the calendar was the work of Mohammed - the most perfect man ever to walk the earth - it cannot be changed in spite of the fact that it is only 354 days long.

    The very idea of cultural sensitivity has never existed in the tribal mindset of Islam and never will. In their eyes all other cultures that do not embrace Islam are inferior and less valid than their own.

    In the western world "peace" is defined as a period of harmony and tranquility. In Islamic culture it's defined as what will occur only after the last infidels have been either killed or converted.

    The idea of a Muslim teacher having "sense" in the way you define it is not possible because as a teacher to Muslims he must remain within the framework of 7th century tribalism and traditions that he must teach.

    As far as any "Muslim with good sense and an awareness of public relations giving the teachers a dressing down" he would most likely be risking his life to do so. Opposing the teachings of Muslim teachers is tantamount to heresy.