Jesus Does Not Have High Credentials for Prophesying: Gospels Jump in Time to the First Jewish-Roman War

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 11, 2015 8:21 PM GMT
    And we must read Wars of the Jews by Josephus in our Bible studies, in our institutions of higher learning, in our institutions of religions (Christian and Muslim), and the general reader should have the major points of Wars of the Jews as common knowledge.

    If Jesus did not have the power of prophecy, then maybe the Gospels jump ahead in time to the Jewish Revolt and returning to the time of Pontius Pilate is just a ruse.

    Use prophecy as a literary device to move the gospel accounts forward in time when

    1) Jerusalem is surrounded by armies (armies of civil war, rebel help from beyond the Euphrates--likely through the Manu royalty of Queen Helena and Edessa--and the Roman army)

    2) Romans do capture a Jewish zealot on the Mount of Olives (the biblical Jesus was a purist and Reza Aslan does say the biblical Jesus was a zealot)

    3) the Temple was destroyed

    4) Jesus of Ananus was scourged by a Roman procurator

    5) as written in the Life of Josephus, our attention is drawn to three crucifixions where one survives
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 12, 2015 2:57 PM GMT
    StephenOABC saidAnd we must read Wars of the Jews by Josephus in our Bible studies, in our institutions of higher learning, in our institutions of religions (Christian and Muslim), and the general reader should have the major points of Wars of the Jews as common knowledge.

    If Jesus did not have the power of prophecy, then maybe the Gospels jump ahead in time to the Jewish Revolt and returning to the time of Pontius Pilate is just a ruse.

    Use prophecy as a literary device to move the gospel accounts forward in time when

    1) Jerusalem is surrounded by armies (armies of civil war, rebel help from beyond the Euphrates--likely through the Manu royalty of Queen Helena and Edessa--and the Roman army)

    2) Romans do capture a Jewish zealot on the Mount of Olives (the biblical Jesus was a purist and Reza Aslan does say the biblical Jesus was a zealot)

    3) the Temple was destroyed

    4) Jesus of Ananus was scourged by a Roman procurator

    5) as written in the Life of Josephus, our attention is drawn to three crucifixions where one survives


    Order can be improved like below and you can add another item.

    Use prophecy as a literary device to move the gospel accounts forward in time when

    1) Jerusalem is surrounded by armies (armies of civil war, rebel help from beyond the Euphrates--likely through the Manu royalty of Queen Helena and King Monobazus, the royalty of Edessa--and the Roman army)

    2) Romans do capture a Jewish zealot on the Mount of Olives (the biblical Jesus was a purist and Reza Aslan does say the biblical Jesus was a zealot)

    3) Jesus of Ananus was scourged by a Roman procurator

    4) as written in the Life of Josephus, our attention is drawn to three crucifixions where one survives

    5) an earthquake occurs

    (In the historical account of Josephus, the earthquake occurs within 24 hours of the death of high priest Jesus of Gamala; in the biblical account, the earthquake occurs within 24 hours of the death of the biblical Jesus. There is in the former: earthquake then death; in the latter: death then earthquake.)

    6) the Temple was destroyed
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 29, 2015 5:52 PM GMT
    One of the historical Jesuses, Jesus, son of Ananus, did not begin prophesying the woes of the tribulation of the Jewish Revolt until four years before the war began. That would be in the year 62 C.E. That Jesus began prophesying the woes of the tribulation of the Jewish Revolt in the year 30, no later than the year 36, may not be correct.

    One could say Jesus had a very pessimistic outlook given vibes of rejection on Palm Sunday. I think the biblical Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Temple when he was leaving Jerusalem on Palm Sunday. I'll have to check. If he had assessed lack of support and lack of respect for the Temple by Temple Authorities (not the people who waved palm branches for him but the ones who made it so commercial), he could have been sour grapes about "their" Temple and uttered its demise.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 01, 2015 3:07 AM GMT
    StephenOABC said
    StephenOABC said


    Order can be improved like below and you can add another item.

    Use prophecy as a literary device to move the gospel accounts forward in time when

    1) Jerusalem is surrounded by armies (armies of civil war, rebel help from beyond the Euphrates--likely through the Manu royalty of Queen Helena and King Monobazus, the royalty of Edessa--and the Roman army)

    2) Romans do capture a Jewish zealot on the Mount of Olives (the biblical Jesus was a purist and Reza Aslan does say the biblical Jesus was a zealot)

    3) Jesus of Ananus was scourged by a Roman procurator

    4) as written in the Life of Josephus, our attention is drawn to three crucifixions where one survives

    5) an earthquake occurs

    (In the historical account of Josephus, the earthquake occurs within 24 hours of the death of high priest Jesus of Gamala; in the biblical account, the earthquake occurs within 24 hours of the death of the biblical Jesus. There is in the former: earthquake then death; in the latter: death then earthquake.)

    6) the Temple was destroyed


    4) is revised to include being taken down by Joseph (Jospeh ben Matthias, Josephus in Life of Josephus, and Joseph of Arimathea)

    The world-famous length of time Jesus needs to resurrect is based on Hosea 6: 1-2 which challenges the notion that Jesus was not dead but in a coma or under medical care until he could exit the tomb, making it the empty tomb. Even then, Jesus is not recognizable. Even in two – three days, he would have been limping.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 03, 2015 2:46 PM GMT
    Steefen

    The world-famous length of time Jesus needs to resurrect is based on Hosea 6: 1-2 which challenges the notion that Jesus was not dead but in a coma or under medical care until he could exit the tomb, making it the empty tomb. Even then, Jesus is not recognizable. Even in two – three days, he would have been limping.

    Correction

    The world-famous length of time Jesus needs to resurrect is based on Hosea 6: 1-2.

    This challenges the notion that Jesus was dead and did not resurrect until Easter Sunday. This is a challenge because the authors may not have been writing events as they happened but they were bringing Hebrew Scripture forward into an historical fiction.

    Hosea 6: 1-2

    Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us.

    He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day, That we may live before Him.

    First, this opens the probability that with the gospels being written after Vespasian became governor of Judea, Hosea 6: 1-2 needed to be re-iterated. With Matthew, Luke, and John being written after AD 70 and the destruction of the Temple, life, personified as the Lord, had torn the Jewish people, had wounded the Jewish people but the resurrection story of Jesus would be a reiteration of Hosea 6: 1-2, that the Jews would live before the Lord of Moses and David.

    John 2: 19

    Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

    Second, that Hosea 6: 1-2 supports the notion that Jesus is a literary creation for the sake of reiterating Hebrew Scripture, be it a retelling of the Moses story or referencing Jesus to other Hebrew Scripture touch points, challenges the notion that Jesus was actually dead after his crucifixion. The crucifixion of three men and the one who lived after crucifixion was taken down from the cross by Joseph (as mentioned above) already challenges the notion that Jesus was actually dead beyond a Near Death Experience and beyond the Lazarus Syndrome (Lazarus syndrome or autoresuscitation after failed cardiopulmonary resuscitation is the spontaneous return of circulation after failed attempts at resuscitation. Its occurrence has been noted in medical literature at least 38 times since 1982.) Hosea 6: 1-2 is about bandaging not resurrecting the dead, dead beyond NDE and Lazarus syndrome.

    Jesus was not dead but in a coma or under medical care until he could exit the tomb, making it the empty tomb. Even then, Jesus is not recognizable. Even in two – three days, he would have been limping.

    About Jesus not being recognizable, see the thread:

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4045254
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 06, 2015 10:58 PM GMT
    StephenOABC saidOne of the historical Jesuses, Jesus, son of Ananus, did not begin prophesying the woes of the tribulation of the Jewish Revolt until four years before the war began. That would be in the year 62 C.E.



    Jesus died during Passover week, Jesus son of Ananus died during Passover, Josephus seems to be telling us.

    "Josephus even gives the exact amount of time that this individual continued this mournful refrain, seven years and five months (that is approximately Passover 70 CE) until he was struck [and died]."

    p. 358
    James the Brother of Jesus:
    The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls
    by Robert Eisenman

    I do not think this is exact enough.

    Not only do the gospels want us to read about the Jewish Revolt when Jesus directs our attention to the Destruction of the Temple, but the gospels want us to find there a historical Jesus scourged by a procurator, enduring his pain bravely followed by death during Passover. The Bible points us to this historical Jesus.

    Not related but FYI: http://josephus.org/Passover.htm#last

    ~ ~ ~

    Let's go to the chalk board / whiteboard and see how this may have been determined and why Eisenman may be wrong for mentioning Passover.

    Jesus ben Ananias [Ananus] went around the city proclaiming its coming destruction starting four years before the war, Tabernacles, 62 CE.

    Feast of Tabernacles seems to be late September early October (Autumn 62).

    Five months would put us approximately at February/March.

    Seven years and five months of Jesus delivering woes puts us at 70 AD February/March.

    BUT, I think there are different calendar methodologies in play.

    BUT WAIT:

    The first feast (Passover) was observed in the first month, and the third feast (Tabernacles) was observed in the seventh month, http://www.cswnet.com/~duxrow/webdoc22.htm

    If we have 12 months and we are at Tabernacles in the seventh month, and Tabernacles is late seventh month/early eighth month,
    then Josephus is roughly saying
    Jesus of Ananus died, like Jesus, during Passover.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 08, 2015 10:57 PM GMT
    StephenOABC saidOne of the historical Jesuses, Jesus, son of Ananus, did not begin prophesying the woes of the tribulation of the Jewish Revolt until four years before the war began. That would be in the year 62 C.E. That Jesus began prophesying the woes of the tribulation of the Jewish Revolt in the year 30, no later than the year 36, may not be correct.

    One could say Jesus had a very pessimistic outlook given vibes of rejection on Palm Sunday. I think the biblical Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Temple when he was leaving Jerusalem on Palm Sunday. I'll have to check. If he had assessed lack of support and lack of respect for the Temple by Temple Authorities (not the people who waved palm branches for him but the ones who made it so commercial), he could have been sour grapes about "their" Temple and uttered its demise.


    I’m looking at the Gospel of Matthew. It was not when he was leaving the Temple on Palm Sunday. It appears to be when he was leaving the Temple on Monday, after he had had a rough time with Temple authorities – chapters 23 and 24.