Does being an out gay man mean we have to express our feminine side?

  • wesv

    Posts: 907

    Apr 13, 2015 2:36 AM GMT
    I was having some drinks with my friend yesterday and he had this discussion about me being this "stiff, emotionless, butch gay guy." He thinks that being a gay man means that we should be open to expressing our feminine side. And this was how he said it: "You're a gay man. Get out there and be that raging fag once in a while! Do drag or something!" It may seem like a comical remark, but the whole time he was having a serious tone as if there's a lot of disappointment in me. He thinks that there is more to me than this "fit, handsome, masculine, military-style groomed, young man in a t-shirt and jeans." I always thought that being "butch" is appealing to many gay men.

    Now I'm a bit confused. I always thought that gays (especially gay men) have fought so hard to get straight people out of that whole notion that we disobey gender roles.

    Was he right about anything? I tried to explain myself by saying that I understand we all (gay or straight) have both a feminine and masculine side, but my feminine side isn't as big as he might have thought.

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    Apr 13, 2015 3:42 AM GMT
    This is his problem and not yours.

    Keep being yourself and act in a way that makes you comfortable and happy.
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    Apr 13, 2015 3:47 AM GMT
    From reading OP's threads, he really needs to find new friends. They all sound like judgmental bitches.
  • gottagetbig

    Posts: 17

    Apr 13, 2015 5:35 AM GMT
    Lol, some of us don't have feminine sides at all, and being gay doesn't mean you need to embrace a feminine side. I'm gay, I'm a man, and my boyfriend is a man, if either of us wanted to date someone with a feminine side, it would probably be a woman...
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    Apr 13, 2015 7:55 AM GMT
    gottagetbig saidLol, some of us don't have feminine sides at all, and being gay doesn't mean you need to embrace a feminine side. I'm gay, I'm a man, and my boyfriend is a man, if either of us wanted to date someone with a feminine side, it would probably be a woman...

    Wow, how many times I have heard this cliched and ignorant argument. How about you enjoy taking dick up your ass and stop putting down fem guys?
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Apr 13, 2015 8:17 AM GMT
    I get so tired of what I call the Nellie Supremacist Movement. Your friend sounds like he's one of them. You don't have to swish when you walk, wear makeup, starch your hair, wear too much cologne, or do drag to be gay. There's no universal amount of a "feminine side" for gay men. Some have next to none. Some have enough for twenty.

    One of the things that amazes me most is the wide spectrum of men who fit under the three letter umbrella known a G-A-Y. From full blown leather dominant bears all the way to effeminate twinks to cranky pear shaped drag queens with no less that 20 other "types" in between.

    Just be yourself. Trying to be someone else never works.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Apr 13, 2015 9:26 AM GMT
    I'm sorry, I kind of died at you being "butch" and "emotionless" you look pretty nellie to me. Pause.
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    Apr 13, 2015 9:58 AM GMT
    When it comes to expressing ourselves, what works well for one gay man doesn't necessarily work well for every gay man.

    I believe there is this arrogance in the gay community that some people feel that coming out and telling people you are attracted to members of your own sex is not enough - that you haven't fully embraced your sexuality until you've started prancing around like a diva. It's bullshit, really.

    Don't get me wrong - letting yourself go nuts and doing stupid impressions from time to time can be good for a laugh, and it is good to not be serious all the time.

    But how you express your own sense of fun is up to you and people don't have the right to feel disappointed in you for not behaving in the way they expect.

    I think a lot of gay people need to learn how to embrace diversity in their own culture - that we can all be as masculine or as feminine or as in-between as we feel comfortable with, and we should not try to tell each other how to express ourselves.
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    Apr 13, 2015 11:51 AM GMT
    wesv said
    Now I'm a bit confused. I always thought that gays (especially gay men) have fought so hard to get straight people out of that whole notion that we disobey gender roles.



    Gay men fought so hard for the right to be who we naturally are, without having to conform to some role imposed on us.

    How ironic that there are some who want to force you to conform to some other role just as false.
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    Apr 13, 2015 12:22 PM GMT
    Meh, just be yourself. If others don't like it they can go fuck themselves. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Apr 13, 2015 2:52 PM GMT
    bobbobbob saidI get so tired of what I call the Nellie Supremacist Movement. Your friend sounds like he's one of them. You don't have to swish when you walk, wear makeup, starch your hair, wear too much cologne, or do drag to be gay. There's no universal amount of a "feminine side" for gay men. Some have next to none. Some have enough for twenty.

    One of the things that amazes me most is the wide spectrum of men who fit under the three letter umbrella known a G-A-Y. From full blown leather dominant bears all the way to effeminate twinks to cranky pear shaped drag queens with no less that 20 other "types" in between.

    Just be yourself. Trying to be someone else never works.



    I concur with all of this.

    ...except for that Nellie Supremacists thing. Never heard of it, but it's certainly an insulting term.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Apr 13, 2015 3:00 PM GMT
    Of course not, but we're free too more readily because we won't have "society" trying to pigeon hole us into normative heterosexual behaviors and attitudes.
  • gottagetbig

    Posts: 17

    Apr 13, 2015 6:37 PM GMT
    __morphic__ said
    gottagetbig saidLol, some of us don't have feminine sides at all, and being gay doesn't mean you need to embrace a feminine side. I'm gay, I'm a man, and my boyfriend is a man, if either of us wanted to date someone with a feminine side, it would probably be a woman...

    Wow, how many times I have heard this cliched and ignorant argument. How about you enjoy taking dick up your ass and stop putting down fem guys?


    It's not ignorance, it's a matter of attraction. If you have zero attraction to femininity, you aren't going to intentionally get with a feminine guy because they're butthurt that you don't find them attractive. Taking a dick up the ass doesn't make one feminine, so that argument can't be justified.
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    Apr 13, 2015 8:33 PM GMT
    gottagetbig said

    It's not ignorance, it's a matter of attraction. If you have zero attraction to femininity, you aren't going to intentionally get with a feminine guy because they're butthurt that you don't find them attractive. Taking a dick up the ass doesn't make one feminine, so that argument can't be justified.

    Neither being fem makes you a woman. What school did you go to? Did they not show you woman have vagina down there and men have dick? If you are going to use mannerism and actions as criteria for deciding gender, then yeah taking dick up your ass or sucking cock are things which have been associated with woman. Even a normal straight person tries to find the woman in a gay relationship, which you will find very offending, but you don't think a second before calling fems woman.
    Your attraction doesn't give you any right to put down anything which you aren't attracted to. Go talk about your masculinity in front of some homophobe, you will just be a dick sucking faggot, nothing else.
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    Apr 13, 2015 9:38 PM GMT
    wesv saidI was having some drinks with my friend yesterday and he had this discussion about me being this "stiff, emotionless, butch gay guy." He thinks that being a gay man means that we should be open to expressing our feminine side. And this was how he said it: "You're a gay man. Get out there and be that raging fag once in a while! Do drag or something!"



    Reason number 672 for not hanging out in gay bars. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Apr 13, 2015 9:43 PM GMT
    pazzy said
    gottagetbig saidLol, some of us don't have feminine sides at all, and being gay doesn't mean you need to embrace a feminine side. I'm gay, I'm a man, and my boyfriend is a man, if either of us wanted to date someone with a feminine side, it would probably be a woman...


    we get it. you're a gay guy that's insecure with being gay and cares about how the rest of the world sees you. wouldn't be surprised if you were scared to hold hands in public with your boyfriend or were telling homophobic jokes, dropping gay slurs claiming that you're not as gay as the rest of your peers. that's probably why your screenname is gottagetbig.

    you should work on your insecurities instead of projecting them onto someone else.



    I see nothing in the OP that says his friends were telling him to be more open or affectionate. They were demanding that he act more like a woman. Big difference. Why would you attack him because he fought against this? But you'd come to the rescue if someone were telling a fem guy to be more masculine. You make no sense.
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    Apr 13, 2015 9:58 PM GMT
    "You're a gay man. Get out there and be that raging fag once in a while! Do drag or something!"

    That quote is just horrible.
  • mystery905

    Posts: 745

    Apr 14, 2015 12:17 AM GMT
    Being gay has nothing to do with feminity.

    Straight people can be more feminine than gays and vice versa.

    Being gay does not mean one wants to be a woman.
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    Apr 14, 2015 12:55 AM GMT
    wesv saidI was having some drinks with my friend yesterday and he had this discussion about me being this "stiff, emotionless, butch gay guy." He thinks that being a gay man means that we should be open to expressing our feminine side. And this was how he said it: "You're a gay man. Get out there and be that raging fag once in a while! Do drag or something!" It may seem like a comical remark, but the whole time he was having a serious tone as if there's a lot of disappointment in me. He thinks that there is more to me than this "fit, handsome, masculine, military-style groomed, young man in a t-shirt and jeans." I always thought that being "butch" is appealing to many gay men.

    Now I'm a bit confused. I always thought that gays (especially gay men) have fought so hard to get straight people out of that whole notion that we disobey gender roles.

    Was he right about anything? I tried to explain myself by saying that I understand we all (gay or straight) have both a feminine and masculine side, but my feminine side isn't as big as he might have thought.



    How do we obey gender rules? If so, I'd have 3 kids and live in a suburb.

    Is "fit, handsome, masculine, military-style groomed, young man in a t-shirt and jeans." your persona or is it real?
    Leather can be as much "Drag" as gowns and high heels. Your friend is asking you to cut loose a little.
    Not be a drag queen per se.

    Just be yourself, if you friend feels the need to do drag be his male chaperone. (Even better if he's 6'3" in heels!).

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    Apr 14, 2015 1:15 AM GMT
    pazzy said
    Radd said
    pazzy said
    gottagetbig saidLol, some of us don't have feminine sides at all, and being gay doesn't mean you need to embrace a feminine side. I'm gay, I'm a man, and my boyfriend is a man, if either of us wanted to date someone with a feminine side, it would probably be a woman...


    we get it. you're a gay guy that's insecure with being gay and cares about how the rest of the world sees you. wouldn't be surprised if you were scared to hold hands in public with your boyfriend or were telling homophobic jokes, dropping gay slurs claiming that you're not as gay as the rest of your peers. that's probably why your screenname is gottagetbig.

    you should work on your insecurities instead of projecting them onto someone else.



    I see nothing in the OP that says his friends were telling him to be more open or affectionate. They were demanding that he act more like a woman. Big difference. Why would you attack him because he fought against this? But you'd come to the rescue if someone were telling a fem guy to be more masculine. You make no sense.


    we all know how insecure you are about your manhood already which is why you could easily relate to someone like gottagetbig who has the same problem you do. is there a reason why you constantly have to reiterate that you're a man or that you're masculine and how you don't like effeminate men and drag queens? is it because you got a gay face? is it because you make dude's gaydars malfunction within a 5 mile radius with your pheromones that come out of your pours? or is it because you yourself are a naturally effeminate guy who is butching it up or butched it up because you're ashamed of being gay? what is your problem?

    and yes, it is YOUR problem since you seem to be the one that has that problem. not the people that you have a problem with.

    and how would you know what it is to be a woman though? are you a transgendered male? even back as a kid when i was effeminate as fuck, i knew i was a damn boy. effeminate guys are no different as males than masculine guys. i think we should respect our female counterparts by not trying to put effeminate guys in their ranks. we should also stop shitting on women too because basically we're just putting down women too calling them weak and etc. we wouldn't be here with them. they can't be that weak to be carrying us for 9 months and pushing us out into the world going through labor and shit.


    Still making shit up about me I see. Please quote where I have went on and on about how masculine I am? By the way.....how is being a pedophile working out for ya?
  • gottagetbig

    Posts: 17

    Apr 14, 2015 1:27 AM GMT
    Radd said
    pazzy said
    Radd said
    pazzy said
    gottagetbig saidLol, some of us don't have feminine sides at all, and being gay doesn't mean you need to embrace a feminine side. I'm gay, I'm a man, and my boyfriend is a man, if either of us wanted to date someone with a feminine side, it would probably be a woman...


    we get it. you're a gay guy that's insecure with being gay and cares about how the rest of the world sees you. wouldn't be surprised if you were scared to hold hands in public with your boyfriend or were telling homophobic jokes, dropping gay slurs claiming that you're not as gay as the rest of your peers. that's probably why your screenname is gottagetbig.

    you should work on your insecurities instead of projecting them onto someone else.



    I see nothing in the OP that says his friends were telling him to be more open or affectionate. They were demanding that he act more like a woman. Big difference. Why would you attack him because he fought against this? But you'd come to the rescue if someone were telling a fem guy to be more masculine. You make no sense.


    we all know how insecure you are about your manhood already which is why you could easily relate to someone like gottagetbig who has the same problem you do. is there a reason why you constantly have to reiterate that you're a man or that you're masculine and how you don't like effeminate men and drag queens? is it because you got a gay face? is it because you make dude's gaydars malfunction within a 5 mile radius with your pheromones that come out of your pours? or is it because you yourself are a naturally effeminate guy who is butching it up or butched it up because you're ashamed of being gay? what is your problem?

    and yes, it is YOUR problem since you seem to be the one that has that problem. not the people that you have a problem with.

    and how would you know what it is to be a woman though? are you a transgendered male? even back as a kid when i was effeminate as fuck, i knew i was a damn boy. effeminate guys are no different as males than masculine guys. i think we should respect our female counterparts by not trying to put effeminate guys in their ranks. we should also stop shitting on women too because basically we're just putting down women too calling them weak and etc. we wouldn't be here with them. they can't be that weak to be carrying us for 9 months and pushing us out into the world going through labor and shit.


    Still making shit up about me I see. Please quote where I have went on and on about how masculine I am? By the way.....how is being a pedophile working out for ya?


    Lol it's quite amusing that this has caused some sort of war, but it definitely proves my point about feminine guys getting so defensive and butthurt all because they think masculine guys have to find them attractive. And to make things clear, I may be masculine, but I love holding hands with my boyfriend in public. It's amazing how one comment can make someone rage so much about us, and yet if you actually knew me in person, you'd find out I'm fun, chill, and I treat everyone great. The only reason you're flipping out on me is because I don't find feminine guys attractive, and I didn't mean they are women, I meant it as the likelihood of me ever finding a feminine man attractive is the same as a woman, in the end it doesn't matter to me what parts you have down there.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Apr 14, 2015 2:28 AM GMT
    meninlove said
    bobbobbob saidI get so tired of what I call the Nellie Supremacist Movement. Your friend sounds like he's one of them. You don't have to swish when you walk, wear makeup, starch your hair, wear too much cologne, or do drag to be gay. There's no universal amount of a "feminine side" for gay men. Some have next to none. Some have enough for twenty.

    One of the things that amazes me most is the wide spectrum of men who fit under the three letter umbrella known a G-A-Y. From full blown leather dominant bears all the way to effeminate twinks to cranky pear shaped drag queens with no less that 20 other "types" in between.

    Just be yourself. Trying to be someone else never works.



    I concur with all of this.

    ...except for that Nellie Supremacists thing. Never heard of it, but it's certainly an insulting term.

    ^^ explanation is simple.
    1. Effeminate gay men telling us all gay men must act effeminate in order to be "out" and completely "gay" have done at least five threads in the less than 6 months I've been a member.
    ^^
    2. This is insulting to everyone who isn't an effeminate gay man.
    ^^
    3. You're right. Nellie Supremacist Movement is an insulting term, isn't it? It's no less insulting that the idea of Effeminate gay men telling us all gay men must act effeminate in order to be "out" and completely "gay", is it?
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    Apr 14, 2015 2:43 AM GMT
    Why are you guys arguing with a fake profile? icon_lol.gif
  • gottagetbig

    Posts: 17

    Apr 14, 2015 3:57 AM GMT
    I dated and lived with my ex who was a drag queen for a year. And in trying to make it work he stole $12,000 from me because he always needed new drag shit. In the end, it never was going to work, but I at least have it my all. But some people like to take advantage of that. So excuse me for going for what I really look for in a man.
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    Apr 14, 2015 4:43 AM GMT
    Does being an out gay man mean we have to express our feminine side?

    I've always been more comfortable with my masculine side, if I can call it that. It's just my natural mode. It's the main reason I couldn't accept my orientation for many years, because of my generation's image that all gays are femmy fags, which I never was.

    But once I came out I tried to "blend in" a little better, sometimes doing campy things, but not what I would call feminine. Never works very well, though, just not my natural self. And BTW, when I try to sound campy, it comes out in a 1950s Neu Jehrsey accent. icon_eek.gif

    So I think being out means freedom to be who we are. Some feminine, some not. Although I actually know very few truly feminine gay guys. Almost all are indistinguishably masculine from any straight guys. And like me, they sometimes do a little silly camp for effect, but nothing more.