Is it unrealistic now to expect monogamy?

  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Apr 14, 2015 8:14 PM GMT
    Maybe the way gay males think overall has changed? I thought gay marriage would make us more conservative (thankfully it hasn't), but it has only been a decade. It seems like open relationships are common these days in gay men. But maybe they have always been common, I wouldn't know.

    So is it unrealistic to expect to be with one man and one man only in a long term relationship? Of course, there are exceptions, but are we expected to be more "evolved" and open to sexual and/or emotional relationships outside of the "couple" dynamic?
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Apr 14, 2015 8:27 PM GMT
    Mulignan saidMaybe the way gay males think overall has changed? I thought gay marriage would make us more conservative (thankfully it hasn't), but it has only been a decade. It seems like open relationships are common these days in gay men. But maybe they have always been common, I wouldn't know.

    So is it unrealistic to expect to be with one man and one man only in a long term relationship? Of course, there are exceptions, but are we expected to be more "evolved" and open to sexual and/or emotional relationships outside of the "couple" dynamic?

    Not necessarily. It's all a negotiation between the two guys. Thus it is an area to be considered when looking for a mate. If it is a life dream of yours, then it is a priority and is a consideration. Some guys are monogamous, some don't want to be. Some want lots of new stimulation, some find intimacy between partners to suit their needs. I think most long term partnerships do allow for some extracurricular but usually only after a long period of monogamy, when they realize that there is no question of the love and commitment; that it's just sex. But not all. Sometimes its just as simple as one guy not needing as much sex as the other. My partner and I call our relationship open, but we have almost never acted on it. Our thinking is to say up-front that an occasional trip-up or weak moment or lusty moment isn't anything even remotely close to the strength of our bond. That we will declare in the calm reason that we won't freak out if it happens. And both partners have the right to close the relationship for six months just by asking without any further conversation. Every couple has their own unique path.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 14, 2015 8:58 PM GMT
    It's unrealistic to expect monogamy from someone who doesn't truly love you... but it's also unrealistic to expect someone who truly loves you to be okay with you sleeping with other guys. When a man is in love -- truly in love -- he cannot abide the person he loves in the arms of another man. Anyone who says otherwise is compromising his love, faking his love, or simply kidding himself into thinking an open relationship is the same, or even similar, to a couple that has forsaken all others and committed to each other.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Apr 14, 2015 9:20 PM GMT
    Well, I don't agree with that^^ except in romantic fiction of men and women. I do think monogamy is to be expected early on if you're falling for each other. It is just as simple as not wanting to be with anyone else for any reason at any time. But true love matures and if the sex between you is good it becomes only part of the relationship. It is then that opening up a bit may be considered. Not always but I don't think it is a sign of a necessarily negative change. So good to discuss with a guy when you start getting serious. But be aware that sometimes feelings change, and sometimes one can't foretell how one will feel in the future. People are complex and relationships are complex times 10. You have to stay thoughtful... and focused on your partner's happiness at least as strongly as you are your own. lol What do you think they are talking about when they say you have to work at a successful relationship? The easy stuff is easy. This is part of the tough stuff.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 14, 2015 9:24 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidWell, I don't agree with that^^ except in romantic fiction of men and women. I do think monogamy is to be expected early on if you're falling for each other. It is just as simple as not wanting to be with anyone else for any reason at any time. But true love matures and if the sex between you is good it becomes only part of the relationship. It is then that opening up a bit may be considered. Not always but I don't think it is a sign of a necessarily negative change. So good to discuss with a guy when you start getting serious. But be aware that sometimes feelings change, and sometimes one can't foretell how one will feel in the future. People are complex and relationships are complex times 10. You have to stay thoughtful... and focused on your partner's happiness at least as strongly as you are your own. lol What do you think they are talking about when they say you have to work at a successful relationship? The easy stuff is easy. This is part of the tough stuff.

    If you think it's only in fiction then you've never experienced it firsthand.
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    Apr 14, 2015 9:35 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidIt's unrealistic to expect monogamy from someone who doesn't truly love you... but it's also unrealistic to expect someone who truly loves you to be okay with you sleeping with other guys. When a man is in love -- truly in love -- he cannot abide the person he loves in the arms of another man. Anyone who says otherwise is compromising his love, faking his love, or simply kidding himself into thinking an open relationship is the same, or even similar, to a couple that has forsaken all others and committed to each other.


    This part I'm good with: "It's unrealistic to expect monogamy from someone who doesn't truly love you... but it's also unrealistic to expect someone who truly loves you to be okay with you sleeping with other guys."

    It describes Bill and I accurately.



    The rest of your post is nothing more than insulting a vast number of people in long term happy open relationships. I'm surprised you're that narrow minded.
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    Apr 14, 2015 9:38 PM GMT
    Mulignan saidMaybe the way gay males think overall has changed? I thought gay marriage would make us more conservative (thankfully it hasn't), but it has only been a decade. It seems like open relationships are common these days in gay men. But maybe they have always been common, I wouldn't know.

    So is it unrealistic to expect to be with one man and one man only in a long term relationship? Of course, there are exceptions, but are we expected to be more "evolved" and open to sexual and/or emotional relationships outside of the "couple" dynamic?


    Yes, open relationships have always been rather common. At least since I came out in 1975. Not for me thanks. Nor Bill.

    NO, it is not unrealistic at all to expect you'll be in a monogamous relationship one day.

    Open relationships are not a more evolved kind of relationship, lol. They are merely an alternative kind of relationship.

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 14, 2015 9:39 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    HottJoe saidIt's unrealistic to expect monogamy from someone who doesn't truly love you... but it's also unrealistic to expect someone who truly loves you to be okay with you sleeping with other guys. When a man is in love -- truly in love -- he cannot abide the person he loves in the arms of another man. Anyone who says otherwise is compromising his love, faking his love, or simply kidding himself into thinking an open relationship is the same, or even similar, to a couple that has forsaken all others and committed to each other.


    This part I'm good with: "It's unrealistic to expect monogamy from someone who doesn't truly love you... but it's also unrealistic to expect someone who truly loves you to be okay with you sleeping with other guys."

    It describes Bill and I accurately.



    The rest of your post is nothing more than insulting a vast number of people in long term happy open relationships. I'm surprised you're that narrow minded.

    Usually when someone wants to open the relationship they accuse the bf of being narrow minded... I actually don't think that's the case. I used to think sex could just be physical. Now I know it can be more, if it's a home and not just a place you're renting for the night.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Apr 14, 2015 9:44 PM GMT
    It's couple dependent. Some couples allow it, others don't. The default in straight relationships seems to be monogamy. The same for gay relationships, but with a significantly higher proportion of open relationships.

    Fundamentally, it's a personal choice and one you negotiate in the relationship. But if you require absolute monogamy, you should negotiate that up-front, within the first few months, lest you crater your relationship after years of investment. I wouldn't call a failed relationship after years of investment a "waste," but if you think it's a "success" you'd be a damned fool. DISCLOSE deal breakers sooner rather than later. Not on the first date, but within the first few months.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Apr 14, 2015 9:52 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Mulignan saidMaybe the way gay males think overall has changed? I thought gay marriage would make us more conservative (thankfully it hasn't), but it has only been a decade. It seems like open relationships are common these days in gay men. But maybe they have always been common, I wouldn't know.

    So is it unrealistic to expect to be with one man and one man only in a long term relationship? Of course, there are exceptions, but are we expected to be more "evolved" and open to sexual and/or emotional relationships outside of the "couple" dynamic?


    Yes, open relationships have always been rather common. At least since I came out in 1975. Not for me thanks. Nor Bill.

    NO, it is not unrealistic at all to expect you'll be in a monogamous relationship one day.

    Open relationships are not a more evolved kind of relationship, lol. They are merely an alternative kind of relationship.



    Good take on it. You will hear a lot of homos mock heteros for their antiquated and normative views on sex/relationships though. Some homos do think we are more "evolved" than those "breeders", lol
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 14, 2015 9:55 PM GMT
    Svnw688 saidIt's couple dependent. Some couples allow it, others don't. The default in straight relationships seems to be monogamy. The same for gay relationships, but with a significantly higher proportion of open relationships.

    Fundamentally, it's a personal choice and one you negotiate in the relationship. But if you require absolute monogamy, you should negotiate that up-front, within the first few months, lest you crater your relationship after years of investment. I wouldn't call a failed relationship after years of investment a "waste," but if you think it's a "success" you'd be a damned fool. DISCLOSE deal breakers sooner rather than later. Not on the first date, but within the first few months.

    I'm sure you're a great lawyer, lol. BUT I think people who say variety is the spice of life have never tasted home cooking.
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    Apr 14, 2015 10:02 PM GMT
    Mulignan said
    meninlove said
    Mulignan saidMaybe the way gay males think overall has changed? I thought gay marriage would make us more conservative (thankfully it hasn't), but it has only been a decade. It seems like open relationships are common these days in gay men. But maybe they have always been common, I wouldn't know.

    So is it unrealistic to expect to be with one man and one man only in a long term relationship? Of course, there are exceptions, but are we expected to be more "evolved" and open to sexual and/or emotional relationships outside of the "couple" dynamic?


    Yes, open relationships have always been rather common. At least since I came out in 1975. Not for me thanks. Nor Bill.

    NO, it is not unrealistic at all to expect you'll be in a monogamous relationship one day.

    Open relationships are not a more evolved kind of relationship, lol. They are merely an alternative kind of relationship.



    Good take on it. You will hear a lot of homos mock heteros for their antiquated and normative views on sex/relationships though. Some homos do think we are more "evolved" than those "breeders", lol


    Oh aye, I've heard that talk. lol, we were in a bar having a drink for our 7th year anniv, long ago, and were invited by a group of 5 guys to an after hours party. We were promised lots of random sex. Bill explained we're monogamous and someone in the group, very concerned, said, " Oh no, what's wrong?"

    I belly laughed until they all got mad and huffed off.

    BTW, the gay people saying that straights don't swing
    don't know much about straights - that's a dead giveaway. Heck my parents (also monogamous) were invited to swingers parties back in the early 60s in Winnipeg of all places, lol. The men all; put their housekeys in a bowl and after lots of drinking, the wives each selected a set of keys at random and the man owning them went home with the woman that picked his keys. Then you'd see them all at church on Sunday, lol.

  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Apr 14, 2015 10:18 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Mulignan said
    meninlove said
    Mulignan saidMaybe the way gay males think overall has changed? I thought gay marriage would make us more conservative (thankfully it hasn't), but it has only been a decade. It seems like open relationships are common these days in gay men. But maybe they have always been common, I wouldn't know.

    So is it unrealistic to expect to be with one man and one man only in a long term relationship? Of course, there are exceptions, but are we expected to be more "evolved" and open to sexual and/or emotional relationships outside of the "couple" dynamic?


    Yes, open relationships have always been rather common. At least since I came out in 1975. Not for me thanks. Nor Bill.

    NO, it is not unrealistic at all to expect you'll be in a monogamous relationship one day.

    Open relationships are not a more evolved kind of relationship, lol. They are merely an alternative kind of relationship.



    Good take on it. You will hear a lot of homos mock heteros for their antiquated and normative views on sex/relationships though. Some homos do think we are more "evolved" than those "breeders", lol


    Oh aye, I've heard that talk. lol, we were in a bar having a drink for our 7th year anniv, long ago, and were invited by a group of 5 guys to an after hours party. We were promised lots of random sex. Bill explained we're monogamous and someone in the group, very concerned, said, " Oh no, what's wrong?"

    I belly laughed until they all got mad and huffed off.

    BTW, the gay people saying that straights don't swing
    don't know much about straights - that's a dead giveaway. Heck my parents (also monogamous) were invited to swingers parties back in the early 60s in Winnipeg of all places, lol. The men all; put their housekeys in a bowl and after lots of drinking, the wives each selected a set of keys at random and the man owning them went home with the woman that picked his keys. Then you'd see them all at church on Sunday, lol.




    Sounds fun icon_eek.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 14, 2015 10:19 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Mulignan said
    meninlove said
    Mulignan saidMaybe the way gay males think overall has changed? I thought gay marriage would make us more conservative (thankfully it hasn't), but it has only been a decade. It seems like open relationships are common these days in gay men. But maybe they have always been common, I wouldn't know.

    So is it unrealistic to expect to be with one man and one man only in a long term relationship? Of course, there are exceptions, but are we expected to be more "evolved" and open to sexual and/or emotional relationships outside of the "couple" dynamic?


    Yes, open relationships have always been rather common. At least since I came out in 1975. Not for me thanks. Nor Bill.

    NO, it is not unrealistic at all to expect you'll be in a monogamous relationship one day.

    Open relationships are not a more evolved kind of relationship, lol. They are merely an alternative kind of relationship.



    Good take on it. You will hear a lot of homos mock heteros for their antiquated and normative views on sex/relationships though. Some homos do think we are more "evolved" than those "breeders", lol


    Oh aye, I've heard that talk. lol, we were in a bar having a drink for our 7th year anniv, long ago, and were invited by a group of 5 guys to an after hours party. We were promised lots of random sex. Bill explained we're monogamous and someone in the group, very concerned, said, " Oh no, what's wrong?"

    I belly laughed until they all got mad and huffed off.

    BTW, the gay people saying that straights don't swing
    don't know much about straights - that's a dead giveaway. Heck my parents (also monogamous) were invited to swingers parties back in the early 60s in Winnipeg of all places, lol. The men all; put their housekeys in a bowl and after lots of drinking, the wives each selected a set of keys at random and the man owning them went home with the woman that picked his keys. Then you'd see them all at church on Sunday, lol.


    Well I hope you remembered to tell them about the swinger parties your parents gossiped about in church before they huffed off!
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    Apr 14, 2015 10:25 PM GMT
    HottJoe said, "Well I hope you remembered to tell them about the swinger parties your parents gossiped about in church before they huffed off!"

    Erm, what?

    My parents never gossiped about the swingers parties in church. lol, how the heck did you even think that?

    As for those guys, they didn't say straights don't do swinging, so why would I talk to them about it?

    Good grief, lol.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Apr 14, 2015 10:26 PM GMT
    The nature of sex with your partner is quite different than with a stranger. Those who choose to allow some level of open relationship can differentiate. Some people can't. It doesn't make them good or bad. It is just their nature and their experience. Ignore HJ, he'll find a way to insult if he can. He seldom adds depth. That's not what he does.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 14, 2015 10:32 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidThe nature of sex with your partner is quite different than with a stranger. Those who choose to allow some level of open relationship can differentiate. Some people can't. It doesn't make them good or bad. It is just their nature and their experience. Ignore HJ, he'll find a way to insult if he can. He seldom adds depth. That's not what he does.

    I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just saying that open relationships and monogamous relationships are like apples and oranges: they're not the same.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 14, 2015 10:43 PM GMT
    MIL and Destin are both quickly turning into ROADRAGEBOBS. They just get insulted by everything I say and cast aspersions on my character. Same with Lumpyoatmeal and a number of other posters (many of them faceless). I've been coming on RJ less and less because of it. And the site just keeps going downhill, whether I'm here or not.....
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Apr 14, 2015 11:18 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidMIL and Destin are both quickly turning into ROADRAGEBOBS. They just get insulted by everything I say and cast aspersions on my character. Same with Lumpyoatmeal and a number of other posters (many of them faceless). I've been coming on RJ less and less because of it. And the site just keeps going downhill, whether I'm here or not.....

    Funny how these same guys get so easily offended when you call them on their rudeness when that's all they do thread after thread. Yes, please. Spend less time on RJ so the rest of us can have civil conversations.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 14, 2015 11:59 PM GMT
    @ Destin.

    I already know you think I'm borderline, irrational, negative, insulting, etc; you're so civil for constantly reminding me of what you think!icon_rolleyes.gif

    I'm responding to the OP's assertion that monogamy is dead by giving my opinion that monogamy is more rewarding, and that commitment is a sign of true love.... I don't know if you've experienced that kind of relationship, but don't insult me by acting like your open spring/autumn affair is the same as a monogamous commitment. (And you say I lack depth?)

    @MIL I'm getting tired of you twisting my words to try to get others to hate me. I left RJ for a week or two and came back to see you were posting that I'm anti Christian. That's not the case. I said religion and race are social constructs. I did not say I hate anyone.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 15, 2015 12:20 AM GMT
    I actually think ten years ago I would've listened to Destin and MIL and took their opinions as wisdom.... but I'm not 25. I'm 35, and I am experienced enough to know that I could leave my faithful, loving husband and have an open relationship with someone 2/3 my age, or twice my age, or even my own age (it's not always about age), but it would not be the same as a monogamous marriage between two equals who are committed to each other and have forsaken all others!!! It would crush him, and it would crush me. We would never recover. It would be like burning down the house we built because wanderlust seemed like it might be "fun."

    I've already sewn my wild oats. It's fun, but it's not THAT fun. For me, being married is the most fun! I think my husband is hotter and sweeter and more masc and romantic than anyone. teeheehee icon_razz.gif
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    Apr 15, 2015 12:29 AM GMT
    Hotjoe , I agree with u 100%
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    Apr 15, 2015 1:31 AM GMT
    HottJoe saidIt's unrealistic to expect monogamy from someone who doesn't truly love you... but it's also unrealistic to expect someone who truly loves you to be okay with you sleeping with other guys. When a man is in love -- truly in love -- he cannot abide the person he loves in the arms of another man. Anyone who says otherwise is compromising his love, faking his love, or simply kidding himself into thinking an open relationship is the same, or even similar, to a couple that has forsaken all others and committed to each other.


    Sad to observe how this rather moving description of committed love gets attacked.
    It may not be for everyone -- some don't want it, some can't do it. But it's a beautiful ideal in itself.
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    Apr 15, 2015 1:45 AM GMT
    It's unrealistic to expect anything. Life is going to happen regardless of your expectations...always has and always will.

    However, you can hope for your wishes to be fulfilled and strive toward that as a goal. The more positive your outlook is, the more likely you'll achieve your goals.
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    Apr 15, 2015 1:51 AM GMT
    Destinharbor said
    HottJoe saidMIL and Destin are both quickly turning into ROADRAGEBOBS. They just get insulted by everything I say and cast aspersions on my character. Same with Lumpyoatmeal and a number of other posters (many of them faceless). I've been coming on RJ less and less because of it. And the site just keeps going downhill, whether I'm here or not.....
    Funny how these same guys get so easily offended when you call them on their rudeness when that's all they do thread after thread. Yes, please. Spend less time on RJ so the rest of us can have civil conversations.

    Poor Hottjoe is so misunderstood and maligned; here he is generously sharing his erudite knowledge and as a result suffers slings and arrows. So very sad.