Changing Times? Getting More Difficult to Tell Who's Gay

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 18, 2015 7:42 PM GMT
    As society gets more progressive I'm finding it somewhat more difficult to tell who's gay and straight, or there's more bi guys coming out? This is especially true with younger guys around my age.

    Not sure, but I've had several experiences where I've had to check judgements or stereotypical gaydar indications. The most recent one was when I saw a young finance guy in busy Midtown walking after work with another guy who I just chalked up to a co-worker or friend.

    As they passed I heard them talking about if they were going to stay in tonight or go out. And then I noticed they were holding hands- it took me aback; I don't know why but it did... Even turned around to see if I saw it right. Even in the hegemonic heart of NYC no one else seemed to notice or care.

    On Tinder and other dating sites, I'm sometimes surprised when I come across profiles where I think the guy is straight but then I'll see they wrote "looking for quality guys" "seeking boyfriend" It's very interesting to see the evolution and diversity since it makes you check your preconceived notions at the door but it also makes me worry I have some internalized stereotypes still lingering around.

    Honestly, shouldn't be surprising in NYC and this is a very good thing IMO but it threw me off a bit; hard to tell who's without going to a GLBT setting like a gay bar and such.

    Anyone else finding the rules of gaydar are becoming more irrelevant or even outdated? Or maybe there were no "rules" in the first place and that's what I was reminded of I guess.
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    Apr 18, 2015 8:07 PM GMT
    Erobert said... Even in the hedgamonic heart of NYC no one else seemed to notice or care...


    Things that are hedgamonic
    giphy.gif

    You're welcome.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Apr 19, 2015 3:15 AM GMT
    No the fuck it is not. I can smell a homo from a mile away. icon_biggrin.gif
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Apr 19, 2015 8:58 AM GMT
    pazzy said
    Mulignan saidNo the fuck it is not. I can smell a homo from a mile away. icon_biggrin.gif


    you must have a bad sense of smell then.


    Lol. I'm just cynical. And I derailed this poor man's thread. Ugh.
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    Apr 19, 2015 2:05 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    Erobert said... Even in the hedgamonic heart of NYC no one else seemed to notice or care...


    Things that are hedgamonic
    giphy.gif

    You're welcome.


    This is the most adorable thing ever. Also, it's usually pretty easy to tell someone is gay once you meet them in person.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 19, 2015 2:23 PM GMT
    In addition to Gaydar I have Gaynar. That's the ability to use sound propagation to located gays in my surroundings - Gay + Sonar.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Apr 19, 2015 3:36 PM GMT
    I think there are so many guys out there with so many backgrounds that are increasingly comfortable with exploring their sexual side. I think the answer is, we may be seeing more guys who "choose to explore". Glad to see it.... and life loves a mystery, I'm not concerned if I can figure it out prior or not.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 19, 2015 6:14 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidIn addition to Gaydar I have Gaynar. That's the ability to use sound propagation to located gays in my surroundings - Gay + Sonar.


    My friend has what we call "Geo-Sexual Memory"....like: "see that tree in the woods there? I blew a cute redhead there several years ago" or "yeah, I know him. I fucked him in the back of his car up the road from here".icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 19, 2015 7:36 PM GMT
    I don't think it's a change at all. I think we are all bias to see the gay stereotype, without realizing a large number of gay people grew up without any of those experiences..

    #onlygayinschool

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    Apr 19, 2015 10:33 PM GMT
    I just came back from NYC and I saw exactly what you described. You really just can't tell. I didI download grindr while I was there just for the heck of it. What was interesting is I walked past a few guys I assumed where straight I got a message or two just a few moments laters asking "sup".

    However I think your experience is unique to a larger metropolitan area. In the deep south it seems time has not moved at all. Gaydar is still "needed" unless you want to have your ass handed to you or be found in a back alley somewhere on the outskirts of town.

    I will say I have noticed more guys are willing to "experiment" but it often comes with various strings.
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    Apr 20, 2015 12:51 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidI think it's great. I don't have an issue with effeminate, obvious men but I'm not sexually attracted to them.

    I see guys holding hands in Seattle a lot. I would say half of them look stereotypical and the other half look like men you wouldn't assume were gay right off the bat. One guy I have chatted with at the gym (who's a big muscle guy) was walking through downtown Seattle with his even bigger muscled boyfriend and they were holding hands. They look really good together as a couple. And no one around them cared or even batted an eye.


    That's awesome. If only that same wave would spread through out the entire country. I can always hope at least!
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    Apr 20, 2015 3:13 AM GMT
    The vast majority of men who are easily detected as gay, are sub consciously creating that persona to attract other gay men. All of our behaviors are socially constructed, and that is why femininity is prevalent within gay men. It's no more natural than an over masculine-ized man; as time progresses no one will be visibly anything and the only way to determine someone's sexuality will be by asking them, which will eventually turn into a secondary form of getting to know everyone, regardless of orientation.

    As of now yes you can tell many gay guys by their appearance, but the only way to truly (and fairly) know whether or not someone you see walking down the street has an orientation that is attracted to you, is whether or not they give you the look, which everyone knows what the look is. All appearance driven deductions are superficial and somewhat rude actually. Also if you're not sexually interested in someone, or a really good friend of theirs, or genuinely care about equality, and you ask someone if they're straight or gay (especially in a public place, or in front of others) when gay is still very socially stigmatized, you're just a fucking asshole in my opinion,because there is a still much that is misunderstood about sexuality and that barrier separation can create unfairness in regards to the interpretation of that person, especially in the work force. Just because different orientations are tolerated, doesn't mean they are accepted. My mother growing up tolerated gay men and had gay friends she told me about, but she herself said gay sex is disgusting and so did my sister: that's not acceptance that's superficial tolerance which most people have, and sorry that's not good enough for me.

    The interesting thing is that people all throughout life today tell people its foolish to be in the closet because homosexuality is accepted now, when in reality it's not accepted, it's just starting to be accepted by virtue of gay bashing becoming socially unacceptable; "accepting" homosexuality because you fear backlash from society isn't accepting someone unconditionally, it's lying out of fear of your own survival, and preserving unfair discrimination, which i can sense regardless of what people tell me with their words in real life.

    I still think it's important to be brave and endure the adversity that comes with honesty, but I also believe that the "gay straight bi" approach to the many shades of grey of sexuality is becoming obsolete, and a limited way of expressing something so important and vast; since your personal sexual expression is the essence of how your soul desires to create and expand, i don't thinking smacking a Campbell's soup can label of the 3 most socially acceptable flavors is effective, when sexual nature can be infinitely described and expressed.
  • disasterpiece

    Posts: 2991

    Apr 20, 2015 3:27 AM GMT
    I think it's a strategy from the heteros. Girls always complain the nicest and best looking guys are gay. Heteros are using reverse psychology. They purposely look gay to make girls think they're nice and stuff.

    The same works for gays. Gays complain the most attractive guys are straight. Thus, gays are using reverse psychology by trying to look and "act straight".

    Straight acting gay guys (notably the lumbersexuals) and gay-looking straight dudes (a.k.a metrosexuals) meet halfway and create that gray zone of ambiguity.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 20, 2015 4:24 AM GMT
    It's more that the gay experience is becoming less monolithic. You can't tell who is gay just based on looks or tone of voice, anymore.
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    Apr 20, 2015 4:41 AM GMT
    James_Thunder_Early saidIt's more that the gay experience is becoming less monolithic. You can't tell who is gay just based on looks or tone of voice, anymore.


    Agree with this, there are now tons of different categories and sub groups in the GLBT community. Somewhat overwhelming from a perspective of dating but good for the diversity of the community.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 20, 2015 5:31 AM GMT
    NYC is a pretty gay friendly place with the highest concentration of gay men in the country. You just need to develop a gaydar. I think this is one of the reason why gay men go the bars/clubs, that way, you know for sure that the guy is gay or at least bi/curious. Just observe their interaction, if they're holding hand, kissing, touchy feely or stare at each other over 5 seconds then yes, they're homos. Or you can just go hang out in Chelsea. icon_redface.gificon_smile.gif
  • hebrewman

    Posts: 1367

    Apr 20, 2015 8:48 AM GMT
    Riko_Tal said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidI think it's great. I don't have an issue with effeminate, obvious men but I'm not sexually attracted to them.

    I see guys holding hands in Seattle a lot. I would say half of them look stereotypical and the other half look like men you wouldn't assume were gay right off the bat. One guy I have chatted with at the gym (who's a big muscle guy) was walking through downtown Seattle with his even bigger muscled boyfriend and they were holding hands. They look really good together as a couple. And no one around them cared or even batted an eye.


    That's awesome. If only that same wave would spread through out the entire country. I can always hope at least!


    interesting thread by the way. as cabin crew, i see this more and more. men in their late 30s/40s & 50s, trapped in a marriage that they had to go through, with their trophy wives and entitled kiddies schlepping to disney world. MANY a flirting glance have i seen. often leads to a chat session in the galley. layover hotels where there is a convention? you bet that a little on the side takes place. same situation at the gym. the lines are blurring every day.

    you will see more of it on the east and west coasts, BUT NEVER EVER in flor-bama (the area of the florida panhandle near alabama) texas, and, what i affectionately call, FLY OVER AMERICA (anything in between both coasts)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 20, 2015 2:38 PM GMT
    huhwhat said
    theantijock said
    Erobert said... Even in the hedgamonic heart of NYC no one else seemed to notice or care...


    Things that are hedgamonic
    giphy.gif

    You're welcome.


    This is the most adorable thing ever. Also, it's usually pretty easy to tell someone is gay once you meet them in person.


    I know. Too cute. It's like a water flume, only dainty. The hegemony of a good time. Let the fun rule.

    And I agree that you can usually tell. Things haven't changed all that much. Unless someone has numbed themselves to catching personal signals, but their perception does not reflect the behavior of others.

    It probably happens to all of us every so often, that unknowing, that being unaware of being admired because our minds are elsewhere. Often I've been told that a waiter, for instance, was coming onto me during dinner when I'd not have a clue. If I'm otherwise involved, I might not see it. But when not distracted, I home right in.

    With all due respect to those who don't, as I adore watching people figure shit out, I don't buy much of what I've read on this thread. Interesting perspective you are all constructing for yourselves, but, to me, most of that seems rationalizing away your grindr handicaps.

    I will say though that while my generation was way more subtle in our recognitions, which lead to some lingering doubt and, in part, backwoods blowjobs, you younger guys can be quite refreshing. Just last night at the supermarket, some kid is closing out a register adjacent to my line. We catch each other's eye. He's fucking gorgeous. But I wasn't looking at him sexually, I was really thinking that he's a cute kid who's gonna have a lot of fun with that in his life. I know I had fun and I could see he's gonna have fun too.

    So he starts talking to my cashier but projecting his voice in my direction; you know how people do that. He's being fun and cute and getting me to smile and he's into it. Probably he's in his early 20s and he's flirting with, oh I hate the term, daddy, ick, I really do not like that term. So anyway, I'm on line, not saying a word, so he's completely the instigator of that. I just let it all ride as an entertaining moment, thinking he's adorable and having fun so I just leave it at that. Well, moments later, while I'm paying attention to my cashier, my butt gets bumped. Both cheeks, one right after the other like someone playing a xylophone, passing by quickly behind me. I didn't know what was going on. By the time I turned he was already through to the other side and into the main aisle. But there was no other reason for him to be walking through our line, but for that "signal" he "sent" me. lol.

    I don't even have a smart phone. My old phone hasn't died yet. But I didn't need grindr to know what that was.

    I've still got it. Yay me! You can all go fuck yourselves. Ha! I'm headed towards 60 and just got my ass bumped by some guy nearly a third my fucking age. I once did but now I don't care if he has a fetish. Life doesn't get much better than that.

    So between my gaydar and his overt behavior, my week has just been made. I'm a happy boy. It's nice every so often having some easing from all the rejection that comes with aging. Hopefully by the time you guys get to my age, there will be an app for that.
  • Relajado

    Posts: 409

    Apr 20, 2015 10:44 PM GMT
    Yeah I think it's more or less impossible to tell these days. I can't tell with other people and they can't tell with me.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 21, 2015 12:24 AM GMT
    What people are calling "gaydar" often is "fem-dar." They notice certain mannerisms, tendencies etc that are feminine or that are tied to gay men who are usually feminine. And a lot of guys who are feminine (either mildly or strongly) acquire their behavior from who they interact with and follow (usually females and other gays) and therefore never pick up the more masculine cues from straight guys or even masculine gay guys.

    What you're seeing, in my opinion, is more and more gay guys who hung out with or were heavily influenced by masculine (likey straight) men and who would've have remained closeted several years ago but now are coming out. Hooray for those guys! Please move to Austin!