Someone straight, and VERY Christian, said, "As straight individuals, we can’t demand to be drawn with great detail and precision, while simultaneously grossly caricaturing the LGBT community. Their hearts are as vast as our own, and their stories filled with all the nuance and complexity that we have experienced in ours."

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    Apr 20, 2015 5:21 AM GMT


    This is worth a read, and is the opposite of what the title implies,

    http://johnpavlovitz.com/2015/04/19/yes-homosexuality-absolutely-is-a-choice/


    The man is remarkable and I consider him a friend.
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    Apr 20, 2015 5:31 AM GMT


    There are more straight people on side with you than you may realize:
    " As a third grader, I remember we used to play tag on the school playground during recess; the boys against the girls. (They, after all had “girl germs”, so you had to avoid them lest you be touched and immediately infected). One sunny afternoon, a girl named Lori chased me across the steaming blacktop. Something hit me as we ran breathlessly through the school yard. I suddenly started to realize that I didn’t want to get away from Lori that much anymore. In fact, I sorta wanted her to catch me!

    In that moment, there was no decision (other than the decision to start running a whole lot slower).

    After that, the journey of the coming weeks and months and years was about more and more being revealed and uncovered over time—never a bit of it chosen.

    Christian, you probably recall this in your own story of sexual identity and self discovery don’t you? You simply felt naturally and quite involuntarily, the impulses you felt.

    By following those impulses you were making a choice, too. You were choosing to be authentic and true to your heart and mind’s leading. You were choosing to agree with the truth about how you loved. The alternative would never have been an option.

    Why is it so hard for you to believe that LGBT people are operating any differently?"

    Btw, John Pav is a Pastor.
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    Apr 20, 2015 5:42 AM GMT
    meninlove said

    This is worth a read, and is the opposite of what the title implies,

    http://johnpavlovitz.com/2015/04/19/yes-homosexuality-absolutely-is-a-choice/

    The man is remarkable and I consider him a friend.

    Sorry, his constant reliance on "as a Christian" invalidates this for me.

    Either one is gay or one is not. Being Christian comes second. It's like being male or female. Does religious belief determine our sexuality, of male or female? That's what I'm reading in this.

    And what about those who have Jewish beliefs, or Muslim, or Hindu, or others? What about them? This article is kinda assuming everyone is Christian, and guess what - they aren't!
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    Apr 20, 2015 2:41 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    meninlove said

    This is worth a read, and is the opposite of what the title implies,

    http://johnpavlovitz.com/2015/04/19/yes-homosexuality-absolutely-is-a-choice/

    The man is remarkable and I consider him a friend.

    Sorry, his constant reliance on "as a Christian" invalidates this for me.

    Either one is gay or one is not. Being Christian comes second. It's like being male or female. Does religious belief determine our sexuality, of male or female? That's what I'm reading in this.

    And what about those who have Jewish beliefs, or Muslim, or Hindu, or others? What about them? This article is kinda assuming everyone is Christian, and guess what - they aren't!


    I'm not sure where you're coming from with this. He's a Christian Pastor specifically addressing other Christians who are against gays and who think gays etc choose. That's what the article is about. I do think it would be inappropriate of him to criticize people of other faiths who are against gays. I also found that in light of the US mess where Xtian fundies are trying to stop LGBTQ equality, the blog is timely and direct. Great stuff.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14350

    Apr 22, 2015 1:35 AM GMT
    meninlove said
    Art_Deco said
    meninlove said

    This is worth a read, and is the opposite of what the title implies,

    http://johnpavlovitz.com/2015/04/19/yes-homosexuality-absolutely-is-a-choice/

    The man is remarkable and I consider him a friend.

    Sorry, his constant reliance on "as a Christian" invalidates this for me.

    Either one is gay or one is not. Being Christian comes second. It's like being male or female. Does religious belief determine our sexuality, of male or female? That's what I'm reading in this.

    And what about those who have Jewish beliefs, or Muslim, or Hindu, or others? What about them? This article is kinda assuming everyone is Christian, and guess what - they aren't!


    I'm not sure where you're coming from with this. He's a Christian Pastor specifically addressing other Christians who are against gays and who think gays etc choose. That's what the article is about. I do think it would be inappropriate of him to criticize people of other faiths who are against gays. I also found that in light of the US mess where Xtian fundies are trying to stop LGBTQ equality, the blog is timely and direct. Great stuff.
    You have to excuse Mr Art Deco because anytime you mention terms like "Christian", "conservative", "independent ", "moderate" and especially "republican", old Art suddenly gets all bent out of shape and starts foaming at the mouth. It is mental instability caused by being a dyed to the wool extremist liberal hen.icon_cool.gif
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    Apr 22, 2015 1:50 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    You have to excuse Mr Art Deco because anytime you mention terms like "Christian", "conservative", "independent ", "moderate" and especially "republican", old Art suddenly gets all bent out of shape and starts foaming at the mouth. It is mental instability caused by being a dyed to the wool extremist liberal hen.icon_cool.gif

    meninlove don't have to excuse anything, nor do I. They explained what this meant, and I can see their point. That is what discussion is about. Without your unwelcome interference.

    These are the guys who phoned both me & my husband when we were each in the hospital. I don't recall that anyone else from RJ did that. I treasure those guys for doing that, it meant so much to us.

    You think I would say anything to them for which I need to be "excused"? Take your own private agenda and shove it up your overused ass. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Apr 22, 2015 2:36 AM GMT
    meninlove said

    This is worth a read, and is the opposite of what the title implies,

    http://johnpavlovitz.com/2015/04/19/yes-homosexuality-absolutely-is-a-choice/


    The man is remarkable and I consider him a friend.


    Having been raised Christian I find this very interesting and forwarded it to some family who still have a problem with me coming out. Thank you.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14350

    Apr 22, 2015 12:14 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    roadbikeRob said
    You have to excuse Mr Art Deco because anytime you mention terms like "Christian", "conservative", "independent ", "moderate" and especially "republican", old Art suddenly gets all bent out of shape and starts foaming at the mouth. It is mental instability caused by being a dyed to the wool extremist liberal hen.icon_cool.gif

    meninlove don't have to excuse anything, nor do I. They explained what this meant, and I can see their point. That is what discussion is about. Without your unwelcome interference.

    These are the guys who phoned both me & my husband when we were each in the hospital. I don't recall that anyone else from RJ did that. I treasure those guys for doing that, it meant so much to us.

    You think I would say anything to them for which I need to be "excused"? Take your own private agenda and shove it up your overused ass. icon_biggrin.gif
    I see that it must have been happy hour again for you as evidenced by your childish ranting about my so called personal agenda.
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    Apr 22, 2015 3:42 PM GMT
    Roadbikerob, Art D is a personal friend outside of RJ.

    He saw the subject matter one way, and so I explained it another. He got it. This is what friends do. icon_wink.gif
  • jockdude

    Posts: 93

    Apr 23, 2015 9:16 AM GMT
    meninlove saidRoadbikerob, Art D is a personal friend outside of RJ.

    He saw the subject matter one way, and so I explained it another. He got it. This is what friends do. icon_wink.gif
    I don't think Rob understands the concept of friends.