What do you guys think about this Facebook post about "Rape Culture". Is this post sexist?

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    Apr 22, 2015 2:58 AM GMT
    So my friend posted this on facebook the other day, and the ending kind of rubbed me the wrong way? To me it kind of implies that all men participate in "Rape culture" and that no women do at all. What do you think of this?

    Rape Culture is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture. Rape culture is perpetuated through the use of misogynistic language, the objectification of women’s bodies, and the glamorization of sexual violence, thereby creating a society that disregards women’s rights and safety.
    This is Rape Culture and NO. No, woman ever "wants it." It is oppressive, degrading and a form of soft-genocide on the female population that no one is willing to speak about. If you're a male, by societies definition, you're participating in rape culture until you become aware that it happens to 293,000 women every year and you yourself make a change. Because it isn't about women. It isn't something we bring upon ourselves. It is a man's issue and until you start speaking up about it we definitely won't. Thank you Men Against Violence at Texas State University

    The parts that I don't completely understand are

    1) "If you're a male, by societies definition, you're participating in rape culture until you become aware that it happens to 293,000 women every year and you yourself make a change"

    I would never rape a women nor would I support or promote the rape of women. In my opinion I am not participating in rape culture at all there for what exactly do I need to change.

    2) Because it isn't about women. It is a man's issue and until you start speaking up about it we definitely won't.

    If your a women and you have strong beliefs against an immoral action why do you need to wait for a man to speak up to have your opinion heard? And why is this only a mans issue?

    Please let me know what you guys think, thanks!
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Apr 22, 2015 4:07 AM GMT
    This thread is already making my f-ing head hurt.

    @Pazzy. You cannot talk about overarching concepts and then pillory a particular person. "Hate the game, not the player."

    So in an attempt to "share the blame" of societal wide misogyny, you point to one girl who "dressed slutty" (as you perceive it).

    First, walking around even NUDE doesn't mean you're inviting non-consensual sex.

    Second, blaming the victim is the new trend, but I'm actually saddened that a fellow GAY BLACK male did that to a woman.

    Third, blaming this "slutty" girl is like blaming Uncle Tom. Sure, Uncle Tom was a self-hating negro who would do anything to conform to the racism of his time, and he's rightly relegated as a sell out. However, one cannot actually blame Uncle Tom. He was just trying to survive in the cultural context in which he found himself. That's also akin to blaming Jews who served as "Nazi" guards as criminals. Umm, they're not morally praise worthy, but they're not criminals. Those Jews did what they thought they had to do to survive. That you're now trying to flip the script on them is gross.

    Fourth, imagine a guy BUTT NAKED at that counter. Most people would be like "omg that's so cool," "omg I can't believe you're streaking," "omg total props #brave #toocool #TotallyMadePledge" There wouldn't be comments about him ASKING for rape. If he were violently accosted and butt fucked, there would be a line as long as London of people defending his "right" to be in the buff and to enjoy a joke and NOT have to be subject to coercion and rape.

    I seriously can't with this now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 22, 2015 4:45 AM GMT
    needsomebodytohold saidSo my friend posted this on facebook the other day, and the ending kind of rubbed me the wrong way? To me it kind of implies that all men participate in "Rape culture" and that no women do at all. What do you think of this?

    Rape Culture is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture. Rape culture is perpetuated through the use of misogynistic language, the objectification of women’s bodies, and the glamorization of sexual violence, thereby creating a society that disregards women’s rights and safety.
    This is Rape Culture and NO. No, woman ever "wants it." It is oppressive, degrading and a form of soft-genocide on the female population that no one is willing to speak about. If you're a male, by societies definition, you're participating in rape culture until you become aware that it happens to 293,000 women every year and you yourself make a change. Because it isn't about women. It isn't something we bring upon ourselves. It is a man's issue and until you start speaking up about it we definitely won't. Thank you Men Against Violence at Texas State University

    The parts that I don't completely understand are

    1) "If you're a male, by societies definition, you're participating in rape culture until you become aware that it happens to 293,000 women every year and you yourself make a change"

    I would never rape a women nor would I support or promote the rape of women. In my opinion I am not participating in rape culture at all there for what exactly do I need to change.

    2) Because it isn't about women. It is a man's issue and until you start speaking up about it we definitely won't.

    If your a women and you have strong beliefs against an immoral action why do you need to wait for a man to speak up to have your opinion heard? And why is this only a mans issue?

    Please let me know what you guys think, thanks!


    Soft-genocide? Could someone define that please. I googled only to find a lot of nonsense and some noise. Is that an actual thing?

    We've been talking about this for more than 40 years now though I never related personally to the idea of not wanting to be objectified. Seems somehow sexually self defeating.

    Where objectification gets nasty is with creepy stalkers and when overpowered. Otherwise, I loved it when I was younger and miss it as I age. My bud and I back in the 70s/80s always joked: "objectify me".

    I get that females don't feel the same. Or anyone who might feel objectified when not in control or when threatened.

    I'm intimately familiar with the topic, knowing a number of women who have been raped or near raped. If they could be so quantified, probably the worst one is with an old friend, very dear to me, raped by another friend who I was close to for many years. Decades later, she's still damaged but has told only me and she didn't even tell me until about 30 years after. Not even her husband knows. She made me swear to not tell any of our friends nor to confront her rapist, which of course I immediately wanted to do, thinking that would help heal her.

    We have a supportive group of friends still in each others lives, many for 50 plus years, but I can't violate her trust especially since her injury was a violation of trust. We've all been in the same room at the same time with me knowing and boy did that suck. But I have to honor her wishes even though I know they hurt her.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Apr 22, 2015 5:16 AM GMT
    @Pazzy

    So your paradigm is: If victim of society X purposefully provokes the unjust ire of beneficiary Y, then person X is at fault.

    As you stated, if some (manipulative?) woman purposefully dressed provocatively and then "flipped" it on a male beneficiary who cat-called her, then the women is at fault.

    So, using your same argument and paradigm, if a gay man purposefully dresses provocatively and then calls out a homophobe who calls him a 'fag', then that gay man is at fault.

    This is the definition of BLAMING THE VICTIM. Playing coy, being subversive, and flipping the script on perpetuators of an unjust paradigm is the essence of civil rights movements. I don't know what to say other than it appears you're so entrenched in our patriarchy that you can't see the forest for the trees.

    Women in spandex are not the problem, nor are specific women who buck the system, exploit it to their individual benefit, or otherwise are oblivious to what they're perpetuating. The problem is the f-ing male rape culture and our overarching patriarichal society.

    Bottom line: A woman should be able to walk around top less (it's legal in New York and other jurisdictions) and not be cat called or raped.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Apr 22, 2015 5:40 AM GMT
    So society UNJUSTLY says that girls cannot wear certain clothing. If a woman does that, then that woman is labeled a "slut" unjustly, and you agree.

    So society UNJUSTLY said blacks couldn't walk with dignity. If a black man walks with dignity, then that black man is labeled an "uppity nigger" unjustly, and (apparently) you'd agree. (If you need a specific example of a black man bucking the racist system read Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry and focus on the bridge scene, which is very symbolic and about subversion and bucking an unjust system to change it.

    I can't with this. You're basically saying, in a much more polite way, "the system is fucked, but bitches should conform lest they be judged."

    No, just no.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 22, 2015 5:49 AM GMT
    Hey guys do you think that this is a respectful reply?

    Paige Swanson, I firmly believe in your message but some of your language seems kind of sexist to me. This is what I don’t understand about what you’re saying.

    1) "If you're a male, by societies definition, you're participating in rape culture until you become aware that it happens to 293,000 women every year and you yourself make a change"

    I would never rape a women nor would I support or promote the rape of women. In my opinion I am not participating in rape culture at all therefor what exactly do I need to change? Awareness does not necessarily stop participation. A bully who is aware of bullying and doesn't stop it doesn't solve anything.

    2) Because it isn't about women. It is a man's issue and until you start speaking up about it we definitely won't.

    If you’re a women and you have strong beliefs against an immoral action why do you need to wait for a man to speak up to have your opinion heard? And why is this only a man’s issue instead of everybody’s issue?

    3) And also you know that even though rape is way more frequent in occurrence for women, men can also and have been victims of rape by women. In fact I strictly remember a young female elementary teacher making national headlines for statutory rape of a student when I was in high school. Her name was Debbie Lafave.

    You may want to say that “Rape culture” is a human rights issue that everyone should participate in solving, and you may want to completely leave out the part about women not speaking up about rape culture until men start doing it because that is not true. I know many independent strong women who would respectfully disagree with you. Sorry if anything I’m saying is disrespectful or offensive, I just wanted to share my opinion, and I can tell you want men to participate in this discussion.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 23, 2015 4:33 AM GMT
    "80% of rape cases go unreported"
    "85% of rapes...the rapist is...often a close acquaintance of the victim"
    "...it's the guy you trusted your whole life"