The White Party and Gay Culture Need More Color

  • metta

    Posts: 39104

    Apr 25, 2015 8:09 AM GMT
    The White Party and Gay Culture Need More Color



    http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/04/24/op-ed-white-party-and-gay-culture-need-more-color?team=social
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    Apr 25, 2015 3:01 PM GMT
    I'm glad the guy who wrote this nonsense is still a student because that means there's hope of improving his investigative, logical, analytic, and writing skills before he gushes forth again. Reduced to its essence, he's lamenting the lack of - for lack of a better word, but to use the one that fits his parameters - "darkies." Last time I checked, the White Party, just like any political party, will take your money no matter how light or dark your skin is. If you want to go, just go! As for being named one of its "Ambassadors," that's still within the purview of the organizers (much like those who orchestrated those "multicultural" events where whites were asked to clear out), who've consistently shown that, their protestations of charitable giving aside, their sole interest is in - pardon the pun - making a buck.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Apr 25, 2015 3:40 PM GMT
    Boy, you can count on a Republican to revert to using words like "darkies" And find it funny (the author didn't use it but referred to anyone who's skin is darker than white or near white). I don't agree with everything the writer said but it reflects the experiences of an educated, attractive black man and how he perceives predudice even in a liberal environment. I see it kind of like the Washington Redskins issue. It doesn't matter how I perceive the mascot. What matters is how the Native American community perceives it. All he's asking for is a bit of affirmative action to make people who feel unwelcome feel better. If no discrimination is intended, I think it's a good thing that the perception be addressed.
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    Apr 25, 2015 4:54 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidBoy, you can count on a Republican to revert to using words like "darkies" And find it funny (the author didn't use it but referred to anyone who's skin is darker than white or near white). I don't agree with everything the writer said but it reflects the experiences of an educated, attractive black man and how he perceives predudice even in a liberal environment. I see it kind of like the Washington Redskins issue. It doesn't matter how I perceive the mascot. What matters is how the Native American community perceives it. All he's asking for is a bit of affirmative action to make people who feel unwelcome feel better. If no discrimination is intended, I think it's a good thing that the perception be addressed.


    If you can come up w/ a better word to describe what the author's bewailing, by all means do. If you want to read Newspeak, or Hillarytalk, where certain words are verboten based on the wildest and most inconsistent of standards, read 1984 or go to the next "Dialogue on Race." Sorry, but the constraints of political rectitude do not bind me.
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    Apr 25, 2015 5:25 PM GMT
    MGINSD said Sorry, but the constraints of political rectitude do not bind me.

    Regardless of your feelings about "political rectitude", I really don't think you want to associate yourself with the language of hard-core Southern segregationists of an earlier era, even though it gives you a woody to think how much you're annoying "libtards" by doing so. Would you refer to one of your Jewish acquaintances as "that kike"?
    Actually, you might.
    Never mind.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Apr 25, 2015 5:33 PM GMT
    Sharkspeare said
    MGINSD said Sorry, but the constraints of political rectitude do not bind me.

    Regardless of your feelings about "political rectitude", I really don't think you want to associate yourself with the language of hard-core Southern segregationists of an earlier era, even though it gives you a woody to think how much you're annoying "libtards" by doing so. Would you refer to one of your Jewish acquaintances as "that kike"?
    Actually, you might.
    Never mind.

    Ya, I think he would, the faggot.
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    Apr 25, 2015 5:40 PM GMT
    Sharkspeare said
    MGINSD said Sorry, but the constraints of political rectitude do not bind me.

    Regardless of your feelings about "political rectitude", I really don't think you want to associate yourself with the language of hard-core Southern segregationists of an earlier era, even though it gives you a woody to think how much you're annoying "libtards" by doing so. Would you refer to one of your Jewish acquaintances as "that kike"?
    Actually, you might.
    Never mind.


    You need to get out more among black folks, Sharkie, where you'll hear them refer to each other not just as - to soothe your and any others' tender[ized] feelings - "the "n" word [incredulity suppressed] - but as "black as the ace of spades," "a darky" (usually preceded by a non-possessive pronoun), "black bitch," or any number of such terms that "appall" people of other races always on the lookout to be shocked. And no, I wouldn't refer to any Jew as a "kike," just as I don't use the term "libtard." But, search away and correct me if I err. And, w/ Destin chiming in on your behalf, that makes two of you who are wrong.
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    Apr 25, 2015 7:55 PM GMT
    In my experience as a gay black male in the US. I have not experienced nor have saw view that other gay black males may have. I do believe that people may naturally want to be with groups who have the same ideals, views, and appearances as they do. Yet, I've always been welcomed into groups where I was the only black guy with an urban/minority experience growing up. The difference was obvious at first but I made the best of the situation and took the opportunity to attempt to make friends.

    At one point I recognized a majority of my friends were all but black, so in attempt to "balance" myself I went to find other gay blacks to give me a better perspective. What I encountered was the same exact thing that the author describes about the white party, but in the black gay culture. In the black gay culture, that i personally experienced, there appear to be this same attitude towards white men while they are tolerated, you could they weren't all that welcomed. Also any black guy who dated a white guy was verbally torn apart by other "queens" in the club was given the "stank" eye.
    My experience in dealing with the black gay culture exclusively ended and to be honest I didn't belong. I wasn't raised with the same issues as other and my standpoint on things could cause a huge clash of ideals.

    I realized at the end of the experiment (if you will) that you are going to see what you want to see. The author, in my opinion, comes from an environment where he will never amount to anything due to the color of his skin. This point-of-view, is very common in my interaction with other black people and it is very disheartening to see. However, once you can overcome it, it is amazing to see how the world actually is... not that bad of place.

    TL;DR: You see what you want to see. If you look at the world like they don't like me for being black, then that is what you will see.
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    Apr 25, 2015 8:13 PM GMT


    Oh good lord. *facepalm* Only in the US is the White Party some kind of political party (you're kidding me, right, lol) with racist machinations.

    The only big thing white about the White Parties in Canada is the attire, not skin colour. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Apr 25, 2015 8:33 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    Sharkspeare said
    MGINSD said Sorry, but the constraints of political rectitude do not bind me.

    Regardless of your feelings about "political rectitude", I really don't think you want to associate yourself with the language of hard-core Southern segregationists of an earlier era, even though it gives you a woody to think how much you're annoying "libtards" by doing so. Would you refer to one of your Jewish acquaintances as "that kike"?
    Actually, you might.
    Never mind.


    You need to get out more among black folks, Sharkie, where you'll hear them refer to each other not just as - to soothe your and any others' tender[ized] feelings - "the "n" word [incredulity suppressed] - but as "black as the ace of spades," "a darky" (usually preceded by a non-possessive pronoun), "black bitch," or any number of such terms that "appall" people of other races always on the lookout to be shocked. And no, I wouldn't refer to any Jew as a "kike," just as I don't use the term "libtard." But, search away and correct me if I err. And, w/ Destin chiming in on your behalf, that makes two of you who are wrong.

    Lol I hope you do refer to "darkies" next time you're in the company of African Americans. Try spook, too. I bet all your black friends love how current you are with your lingo. Gather around me, my darkies. Let me tell you about all the great bro's in the Republicn party.
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    Apr 26, 2015 3:36 AM GMT
    pazzy said...

    dude should simply throw these folks own shit back at them along with all these other gay blacks and nonwhites and throw a damn "black party" or "yellow party" supporting themselves and their own shit.

    it's really annoying seeing the nonwhite guy basically begging for white people to embrace them especially the racist ones. i swear, i see so many nonwhites literally all willing to go hell and beyond to be accepted by their fellow white peers because they feel they're so inferior compared to them. icon_sad.gif


    There are already events like this see here https://www.facebook.com/BlatinoOasis

    There are others...but i'm going to stop here.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3279

    Apr 26, 2015 6:35 AM GMT
    trust me the black and latin events happen all the time in Coachella valley.

    The writer needs to research a bit. His "whitewash" is devoid of the facts.

    I think someone doesnt like that he wasnt "chosen" to go free as an ambassador and wrote a nasty rant.


    1398554265000-TDS-White-Party-Splash-Sat

    B9317077238Z.1_20150423184148_000_G38AJE


    both pictures are from Desert Sun newspaper covering the whiteparty


    2/3 of the headliners are black...
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    Apr 26, 2015 6:54 PM GMT
    And after all the gays are corralled and put in pens, what do they do with them?
    B9317077238Z.1_20150423184148_000_G38AJE
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Apr 26, 2015 7:05 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    Oh good lord. *facepalm* Only in the US is the White Party some kind of political party (you're kidding me, right, lol) with racist machinations.

    The only big thing white about the White Parties in Canada is the attire, not skin colour. icon_rolleyes.gif


    actually, Europe is full of them
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Apr 26, 2015 7:34 PM GMT
    The fact that so many white people are rushing to defend the White Party is precisely part of the problem. It's willful deafness and ignorance.

    "If I don't acknowledge a problem, there is no problem" (insert picture of random black guy in a pool).

    Nobody's saying nonwhites are, de jure, prohibited from attending the White Party. I believe the author was acknowledging a known phenomenon of nonwhites not feeling as welcome as whites, and therefore lower proportional numbers of nonwhites attending the events. I've been. I felt welcomed, but I'm half white and half black, and regularly traverse black only and white only venues. My time as a ballet dancer was another white only time.

    By analogy, nobody is saying blacks are prohibited from the larger ballet world (though some companies will explicitly not cast a 'dark' person in certain roles), but it's a white world, and to say otherwise is ridiculous.

    While it might not be as bad or exactly like the author indicated, he's not completely off base. The White Party and the ballet world, both, need a wake up call. And the knee-jerk reaction to defend either is evidence in and of itself of racism. It's called denial.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 27, 2015 5:32 AM GMT
    MGINSD said
    Sharkspeare said
    MGINSD said Sorry, but the constraints of political rectitude do not bind me.

    Regardless of your feelings about "political rectitude", I really don't think you want to associate yourself with the language of hard-core Southern segregationists of an earlier era, even though it gives you a woody to think how much you're annoying "libtards" by doing so. Would you refer to one of your Jewish acquaintances as "that kike"?
    Actually, you might.
    Never mind.


    You need to get out more among black folks, Sharkie, where you'll hear them refer to each other not just as - to soothe your and any others' tender[ized] feelings - "the "n" word [incredulity suppressed] - but as "black as the ace of spades," "a darky" (usually preceded by a non-possessive pronoun), "black bitch," or any number of such terms that "appall" people of other races always on the lookout to be shocked. And no, I wouldn't refer to any Jew as a "kike," just as I don't use the term "libtard." But, search away and correct me if I err. And, w/ Destin chiming in on your behalf, that makes two of you who are wrong.


    I don't know, M, I'm sure someone here must be willing to carry you back to old Virginny, as I'm pretty sure that's where your old heart is long'd to go, right? And be sure to say hi to old Massa for me, y'all hear now?
  • carew28

    Posts: 660

    Apr 27, 2015 7:56 PM GMT
    The 1st verse of My Old Kentucky Home (state anthem of Kentucky) goes:

    The sun shines bright on my old Kentucky home,
    Tis summer, the darkies are gay.
    The corn top's ripe and the meadow's in bloom,
    While the birds make music all the day.........


    When it was originally written many years ago, there wasn't anything offensive about the word 'darkies'. Times change, though, and more recently, some now find the word offensive. Most recent renditions of the song substitute the word people for darkies, although that does change the meaning somewhat.
    They'll be playing it on TV this Saturday just before the running of the Kentucky Derby, and we'll see which version they use.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 28, 2015 4:38 AM GMT
    Yeah, and there's me trying to be all subtle and shit about Virginia. I'm sure "they" will just "play" a version before the Derby, and then we can watch which words the individual members of the crowd "sing"?
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Apr 28, 2015 5:02 AM GMT
    WrestlerBoy saidYeah, and there's me trying to be all subtle and shit about Virginia. I'm sure "they" will just "play" a version before the Derby, and then we can watch which words the individual members of the crowd "sing"?


    This is so true, I've been to the Derby many years, as I have Steeple Chase in Nashville....it's, literally, the time when I feel most "black." And I grew up in f-ing Tulsa, Oklahoma.

    It's literally, not okay. I love the wide brimmed hats, the sear sucker suits, but there are limits. The only time I felt...somewhat welcome, were my times at the Belmont in New York. But that's freakin' New York.

    For example, in golf, Augusta's misogyny isn't okay, and neither is horse racing's racism (derby and preakness, been to both many times..in-field and 'classy box'). Period, full stop.

    icon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gif
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 28, 2015 5:15 AM GMT
    If you wear yours, I'll get my zoot suit outta the cleaner's and froth up my spats. We can go to the Derby together and do the cakewalk while sippin' on sarsparilla and feeding our own homemade mint juleps to them southern thoroughbreds?
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    Apr 28, 2015 3:25 PM GMT
    I've been to the Derby - once, and in the infield, a far cry from the brimmed hat crowd, but close enough to the Juleps - but I'm not from VA. As Svn knows, I grew up in Gary, IN, where I had A LOT more contact with all kinds of black people than most other non-blacks do, so take that into account when judging my credibility or use of terms that some might choose to find demeaning, even if often used by blacks themselves. And, please don't stoop to hyperbole, WB; we both know you can do better - and there are plenty here who can - and do - much worse.
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    Apr 28, 2015 3:49 PM GMT
    I've been to the Derby a couple times too. Not because I'm a high priced lawyer who lives in a Manhattan penthouse but because my best friend married well. The divide I saw wasn't racial but classist. The people in the infield and the well-heeled, well-hatted people seated in the grandstand are worlds apart. And even the infield has its divisions.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Jun 22, 2015 4:13 PM GMT
    Svnw688 saidThe fact that so many white people are rushing to defend the White Party is precisely part of the problem. It's willful deafness and ignorance...

    While it might not be as bad or exactly like the author indicated, he's not completely off base. The White Party and the ballet world, both, need a wake up call. And the knee-jerk reaction to defend either is evidence in and of itself of racism. It's called denial.


    I'm glad my article is sparking such intelligent comments like these. It's always fascinating for an author when people comment on your work and then make it clear from their comments they didn't actually read it.

    The headline The Advocate chose is unfortunate -- the article is not about White Party. White Party was used as a lead-in. The article is about self-segregation and monolithic representation in the gay community -- but you would actually have to read the article to know that.

    What's interesting is that most of the critical comments don't actually address my central point -- that, in my observation and opinion, the gay community is much too segregated. An intellectually honest criticism actually addressing the point of the article would go something like this: "No the gay community isn't segregated and doesn't have a diversity problem because X,Y,Z."

    But because the gay community is segregated and does have a diversity problem, it's easier to attack my motives.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Jun 22, 2015 4:22 PM GMT
    musclmed saidI think someone doesnt like that he wasnt "chosen" to go free as an ambassador and wrote a nasty rant.


    I think someone didn't read the article.

    In fact, I'm on Jeff Sanker's go-go roster and in years past have danced for White Party and other events of his. In the article, I specifically talk about how my looks have allowed me to be included in certain aspects of gay culture from which gay minorities are usually excluded.

    So the article is actually not about me, or sour grapes about not being a White Party ambassador, because I've been there, done that and probably will again.

    When your entire world revolves around you, and what's happening to you, and only what's happening to you, it's often very difficult to take the perspective of others. If my argument was based on me me me me me me, then I'd have no point to make, because I don't have any problem getting access. But my life is not the entire world, and an exception does not negate a general rule.

    The whole point is that in a truly integrated society, there would be no need for blacks to create "separate" segregated events at which to be represented and feel welcome. And the fact of segregation in the gay community is -- or should be -- an embarrassment to a community that loves to talk about "pride" and inclusion and equality.
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    Jun 22, 2015 4:30 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    I've been to the Derby - once, and in the infield, a far cry from the brimmed hat crowd, but close enough to the Juleps - but I'm not from VA. As Svn knows, I grew up in Gary, IN, where I had A LOT more contact with all kinds of black people than most other non-blacks do, so take that into account when judging my credibility or use of terms that some might choose to find demeaning, even if often used by blacks themselves. And, please don't stoop to hyperbole, WB; we both know you can do better - and there are plenty here who can - and do - much worse.

    I attended the Kentucky Derby in 1970. Made a bundle on a longshot named "Dust Commander".

    Was in the grandstands, and saw restrooms and water fountains labeled "White" and "Colored".

    I stood there shocked. Was this some kind of historical thing they maintained? In 1970? I'd never seen anything like that before in my life.

    But no. Blacks used the one, Whites the other.

    This is the heritage of the South, that tries to continue to this day, with their Rebel flags. Please don't dispute me, I lived in the South for 14 years, witnessed it for myself. White Southerners either hate Blacks, or at best they tolerate them, with politicians who falsely pretend to be accepting. I doubt this will change anytime soon, for many generations yet.