Gay Marshal Shares Final Resting Place with Napoleon

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    Apr 29, 2015 12:21 PM GMT
    I have just returned from a week in Paris. I visited Les Invalides, which, among other things, is the place where the greats of the French military are buried. One of the most prominent tombs, near to that of Napoleon, is that of Marshal Hubert Lyautey, who I had never heard of before. I later did some research on him and it turns out he was gay.

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    Interesting story.

    In Keith Stern’s “Queers in History,” he writes, “The flamboyant Lyautey made no secret of his admiration for young men. In fact, he went so far as to claim that he could not work with men unless he had sex with them first.” French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau noted that Lyautey was "an admirable, courageous man, who has always had balls between his legs – even when they weren’t his own."

    Though Lyautey preferred handsome young officers as companions, he never promoted their careers unfairly and was thus able to maintain the loyalty of the soldiers under his command. They suppressed any criticisms about his sexual orientation in appreciation of his abilities as a soldier, administrator, and leader. In 1921 General Lyautey was made Marshal of France, the highest rank in the French army, and in May 1931, his image graced the cover of Time magazine, which honored him as an “empire builder” for his work in northern Africa. At the time Lyautey was considered France’s greatest colonial soldier.

    http://gayinfluence.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/hubert-lyautey.html

    Incidentally, France de-criminalized homosexuality in 1791, when all sodomy laws were repealed during the French Revolution. Vive la Revolution!
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    Apr 29, 2015 1:58 PM GMT
    Interesting. And I didn't know un Maréchal de France wears **7** stars. Holy shit! And apparently there can be several of them at the same time, like when the US had 4 5-star Generals of the Army toward the end of WWII, plus 2 Admirals of the Navy (Marshall, Eisenhower, MacArthur, Arnold, and King & Nimitz), and a few more gained the rank afterwards, not used since. (If my memory serves me correctly, I'm not using any sources)
  • Rowing_Ant

    Posts: 1504

    Apr 29, 2015 3:01 PM GMT
    Marechal Lyauty "always had balls.....usually someone else" icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
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    Apr 29, 2015 3:18 PM GMT
    I like this part best:*

    "...in May 1931, his image graced the cover of Time magazine, which honored him as an “empire builder” for his work in northern Africa. At the time Lyautey was considered France’s greatest colonial soldier."

    Vive la diversite culturelle en France!
    _____
    *Though Clemenceau's bon mot est tres bien aussi!
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    Apr 29, 2015 3:26 PM GMT
    France always have been very kind to gays ....icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif
  • ASHDOD

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    Apr 29, 2015 3:44 PM GMT
    thank you, very intresting.
  • jeepguySD

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    Apr 29, 2015 10:28 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidInteresting. And I didn't know un Maréchal de France wears **7** stars. Holy shit! And apparently there can be several of them at the same time, like when the US had 4 5-star Generals of the Army toward the end of WWII, plus 2 Admirals of the Navy (Marshall, Eisenhower, MacArthur, Arnold, and King & Nimitz), and a few more gained the rank afterwards, not used since. (If my memory serves me correctly, I'm not using any sources)


    William "Bull" Halsey and William Leahy were also promoted to Fleet Admiral. Incidentally, the rank is not "Admiral of the Navy" -- understandable mistake for an Army man. icon_razz.gif
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    Apr 30, 2015 11:46 AM GMT
    jeepguySD said
    Art_Deco saidInteresting. And I didn't know un Maréchal de France wears **7** stars. Holy shit! And apparently there can be several of them at the same time, like when the US had 4 5-star Generals of the Army toward the end of WWII, plus 2 Admirals of the Navy (Marshall, Eisenhower, MacArthur, Arnold, and King & Nimitz), and a few more gained the rank afterwards, not used since. (If my memory serves me correctly, I'm not using any sources)


    William "Bull" Halsey and William Leahy were also promoted to Fleet Admiral. Incidentally, the rank is not "Admiral of the Navy" -- understandable mistake for an Army man. icon_razz.gif

    I thought Halsey wasn't promoted to 5-star until after WWII?
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    May 02, 2015 1:24 PM GMT
    jeepguySD said
    William "Bull" Halsey and William Leahy were also promoted to Fleet Admiral. Incidentally, the rank is not "Admiral of the Navy" -- understandable mistake for an Army man. icon_razz.gif


    There is a US rank of "Admiral of the Navy" though, (which is senior to Fleet Admiral) albeit it has only been awarded once, to George Dewey in 1903.
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    May 02, 2015 1:29 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    jeepguySD said
    William "Bull" Halsey and William Leahy were also promoted to Fleet Admiral. Incidentally, the rank is not "Admiral of the Navy" -- understandable mistake for an Army man. icon_razz.gif

    There is a US rank of "Admiral of the Navy" though, (which is senior to Fleet Admiral) albeit it has only been awarded once, to George Dewey in 1903.

    Thanks. Though nevertheless I was incorrect to apply it to US Navy leaders of the WWII era. icon_redface.gif

    I also believe there was a rank "General of the Armies" (plural) which only George Washington held, along with General John Pershing of WWI. But I understand Washington only ever wore 3 stars. Not the 4 or 5 that later US Generals have. Pershing only wore 4 stars, not five, but he made his gold instead of the silver that is regulation to this day.

    It also remains in Federal Code that 3 or 4-star ranks are always temporary, for any of the US services. The permanent rank is no more than 2-star. That remains a legacy from Colonial Revolutionary times.

    Which means it takes a separate action by the President, approved by Congress, to allow them to retire at 3 or 4-star rank. Whereas the awarding of 5-star rank by special Act of Congress (General of the Army, Fleet Admiral, General of the Air Force) is automatically for life.
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    May 02, 2015 1:50 PM GMT
    Interesting. All the UK 5-star ranks are awarded for life. The Chief of the Defence Staff used to be an automatic 5-star rank on appointment, but that practice ended a few years ago. Five star ranks are still given as honorary appointments though (to royals and some retired chiefs of the defence staff).
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    May 02, 2015 2:17 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidInteresting. All the UK 5-star ranks are awarded for life. The Chief of the Defence Staff used to be an automatic 5-star rank on appointment, but that practice ended a few years ago. Five star ranks are still given as honorary appointments though (to royals and some retired chiefs of the defence staff).

    You don't have "star" rankings, though, do you? It's Marshal, or Admiral of the Fleet, correct?

    During WWII, when our armies were allied, that problem arose. Our full Generals were 4-stars. But you had Marshals, that technically outranked them.

    Which created a problem, since Churchill & Roosevelt decided the US would head the European invasion. Meaning our US leaders couldn't be outranked by their Brit counterparts.

    So the US Congress created the new 5-star rank. Something that never existed before.

    Thing was, naming the new rank "Field Marshal" was a problem. The most senior US officer in Washington, the Chief of the US Army and President Roosevelt's most trust trusted military advisor, was named George C. Marshall.

    Having a "Field Marshal Marshall" was considered comical (sorta like "Major Major" in the movie Catch 22. So another title had to be found. "General of the Army" was the solution.

    That Eisenhower was also given, so he could preside over all these Brit Field Marshals at their WWII conferences. The rank still exists, but has not been awarded in about 60 years.
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    May 02, 2015 2:38 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    You don't have "star" rankings, though, do you? It's Marshal, or Admiral of the Fleet, correct?


    Admiral of the Fleet, Field Marshal or Marshal of the Royal Air Force. The British rank insignia don't incorporate stars, but the ranks of Brigardier and above are often referred to informally (in the third person) by star ranking: e.g. "He's a five-star". They also have star plates on their staff cars.

    This is a MRAF's star plate. The RN have a navy blue background and the Army a red background.
    180px-MRAF_star_plate.svg.png