Seeking Dishwasher Buying Advice, Specifically the Bosch Brand - UPDATE: Got it, love it

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 30, 2015 1:53 AM GMT
    Our current dishwasher, now approaching 7 years, has finally gone bad. It just flashes its leds erratically, and won't run, which I take to be an electronic failure of a circuit board or something. I was able to replace its failed water valve myself about a year ago, but electronics is something I won't touch. So time for a new dishwasher.

    Consumer Reports indicates the Bosch brand from Germany is very good. And I can get a nice price, with a rebate, about $200 off a $1000 machine. Not the very best, though I think it'll meet our needs. But I've never had Bosch before. Any thoughts? Anyone here own that brand? Thanks!
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    Apr 30, 2015 1:54 AM GMT
    I read somewhere the guys were promoting this Juan, with awesome dishwashing skills at Princess.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 30, 2015 2:00 AM GMT
    Buy a Miele instead!
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    Apr 30, 2015 2:03 AM GMT
    woodsmen said
    Buy a Miele instead!

    I haven't seen them available here. I know the brand from when I lived in Germany. Who sells them? I don't recall Consumer Reports rating them.
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    Apr 30, 2015 2:13 AM GMT
    I've never had a dishwasher named Bosch, but I have had a few other dishwashers.
    I don't wanna name their names though, cause they might be on this site. We broke up years ago. icon_lol.gif
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    Apr 30, 2015 2:28 AM GMT
    I have a Bosch. It's so quiet that you can be standing right next to it and you wouldn't know it was running except for the red dot projected onto the floor. If you don't want a dishwasher disturbing your guests while you entertain, or you regardless, it's a good choice.
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    Apr 30, 2015 4:06 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    woodsmen said
    Buy a Miele instead!

    I haven't seen them available here. I know the brand from when I lived in Germany. Who sells them? I don't recall Consumer Reports rating them.


    Miele is exceptional quiet. You don't even know it is on. Rack for knifes and forks on top. In Seattle, you can buy from Albert Lee Appliances. It is also beautiful inside and outside.
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    Apr 30, 2015 11:59 AM GMT
    woodsmen said
    Art_Deco said
    woodsmen said
    Buy a Miele instead!

    I haven't seen them available here. I know the brand from when I lived in Germany. Who sells them? I don't recall Consumer Reports rating them.

    Miele is exceptional quiet. You don't even know it is on. Rack for knifes and forks on top. In Seattle, you can buy from Albert Lee Appliances. It is also beautiful inside and outside.

    I'm not seeing Miele in the South Florida stores. The Bosch model I'm considering also has a shallow 3rd top rack, useful for long knives, spatulas, serving spoons, etc, or a large cookie sheet. With all the cooking & baking my husband does that would be a convenience. This Bosch is also quiet, 42 dB, but to drop down into the 30 dB range would mean models from $1500-2000, and most are stainless steel front panels only, which my husband doesn't want.
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    Apr 30, 2015 12:06 PM GMT
    eagermuscle saidI have a Bosch. It's so quiet that you can be standing right next to it and you wouldn't know it was running except for the red dot projected onto the floor. If you don't want a dishwasher disturbing your guests while you entertain, or you regardless, it's a good choice.

    Yeah, this one shines a red dot on the floor when running, too. How long have you had it, how well has it performed? Any problems with it, warranty work?

    And yes, in our small condo kitchen there have been times I'd like to have been running the dishwasher when friends were over for dinner. Because we want to get rid of the kitchen clutter when dealing with several courses, and starting the machine early, when there's gonna be multiple loads, can mean I'll be finished by bedtime, as opposed to having to resume next morning, when the tableware and cooking things have dried food on them. And in a Florida condo, keeping unwashed things in the kitchen attracts insects.

    Our current dishwasher wasn't very noisy, actually one of the quietest a few years ago. But you could still hear it a little from the dining area, enough that I wouldn't run it. And with our bigger meals for 6, including cocktails, hors d'oeuvres, dessert, coffee and after dinner drinks, and full place settings, many large cooking utensils, the stand mixer, blender, food processor, etc, etc, it can be 3-4 dishwasher loads. I'm typically not done until noon the next day. Being able to start the dishwasher during the meal would be a benefit.
  • Hypertrophile

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    Apr 30, 2015 12:51 PM GMT
    I have a client with a Miele dishwasher. They have had nothing but trouble and it's very expensive to repair. This may have been due to the built-in water softening system, which seems like a less than necessary feature, even here where our local water has very high calcium content.

    My clients with Bosch dishwashers seem pleased, but I suspect they are equally expensive for repairs.

    I recently installed a GE machine for a client that she bought for about $500 that seemed like a very well made machine. It had a steam prewash feature that could be a good way to save water as you don't need to rinse dishes before stacking them in the machine, though this is really unnecessary if you use a good-quality detergent (Finish Powerball).

    TBH a dishwasher is little more than a box with a pump and a small set of digital electronics to control the thing. I have an inexpensive Amana that works like a champ, and the only tangible thing that a more expensive machine will give you IMO is less noise. Mine also has a plastic tub versus stainless, and I keep it clean by running an empty cycle with a cup of CLR every couple months. If a major repair is ever needed, I'll simply replace the machine.

    Being able to do my own installation helps but they aren't hard if you have any skills with tools at all.
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    Apr 30, 2015 1:36 PM GMT
    might look for a washer that has wands between every shelf. be it two or three wands.

    bro advice
    considering $1000 unit with a $200 rebate; i bought a dishwasher a week ago and paid $200 for it, that was the cost of just your rebate. hate to think what you get for $1000?

    Bosch is a icon_cool.gifnice German name, bet the engineering is most excellent, otherwise they use the same design last ten years for their manufacture in grass huts in VietNam. A dramatic way to say their just is not any different than the next appliance. Reference something like eopinions.com


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    Apr 30, 2015 1:50 PM GMT
    Physiqueflex saidI have a client with a Miele dishwasher. They have had nothing but trouble and it's very expensive to repair. This may have been due to the built-in water softening system, which seems like a less than necessary feature, even here where our local water has very high calcium content.

    My clients with Bosch dishwashers seem pleased, but I suspect they are equally expensive for repairs.

    I recently installed a GE machine for a client that she bought for about $500 that seemed like a very well made machine. It had a steam prewash feature that could be a good way to save water as you don't need to rinse dishes before stacking them in the machine, though this is really unnecessary if you use a good-quality detergent (Finish Powerball).

    TBH a dishwasher is little more than a box with a pump and a small set of digital electronics to control the thing. I have an inexpensive Amana that works like a champ, and the only tangible thing that a more expensive machine will give you IMO is less noise. Mine also has a plastic tub versus stainless, and I keep it clean by running an empty cycle with a cup of CLR every couple months. If a major repair is ever needed, I'll simply replace the machine.

    Being able to do my own installation helps but they aren't hard if you have any skills with tools at all.

    Thanks for your input! And to the other guys who have been contributing genuinely helpful comments. I knew if I asked a bunch of gay guys about dishwashers, or anything kitchen, I'd get good info. (Opppss... did I say that? icon_redface.gif ).

    I plan to install this one myself, and I repaired our current one by myself, too. (replaced the water inlet valve), though we did have a contractor friend do the original installation who lived right here. I once did a complete new installation for my parents, removing a kitchen cabinet, and doing the new plumbing, as well. So I'm hoping I can handle this one, too, as everything is already in place.

    This new Bosch will have a stainless steel interior. Which I avoided the last time. It was more expensive, of course, but I actually found it harder to view things inside, if I wanted to check on them. White is a much brighter interior with better contrast.

    But if I want to spend $2000 on a Bosch, that top-of-the-line model does have an interior light. I also thought the stainless interior would be noisier than plastic. And mine never became stained in almost 7 years. Maybe because I used the best Cascade and now Finish Powerball Quantum detergent brands. They both claim to help keep the tub cleaner, and it seems they do.

    This Bosch won't have the water softener feature, but the higher-end models do. Our water isn't very hard here, anyway, and if you say that feature is prone to problems, even better not to have it. If you have hard water the solution is a softener for the entire home.

    What the pricier models do have that I want are things like the third rack, and more of the rack tines that fold down for greater loading flexibility. My husband/chef is always using large pots and things that would be difficult to load without that capability.

    He also wants a sanitizer feature, which this Bosch will have, as did our last dishwasher. He went to cooking school and worked as a sous chef, and is very mindful of kitchen sanitation issues. A dishwasher actually produces better results than washing by hand, and uses less water in the process, too, so if it can also include sanitizing, likewise something else you can't do by hand, we'll get that feature.

    Bosch has a middling reliability rating from Consumer Reports. But then our current Whirlpool was rated top at the time (and still high), but it lost the water inlet valve at 5 years, and now at nearly 7 is gone. Interestingly, CR's ratings only look back 5 years on appliances. I could get an extended service plan on the Bosch, but only up to 4 years. I'm undecided. In the case of our Whirlpool it would have done us no good, since the problems developed after that. So I hope "eagermuscle" who owns a Bosch will tell me his own service history with it.
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    Apr 30, 2015 2:12 PM GMT
    pellaz saidmight look for a washer that has wands between every shelf. be it two or three wands.

    bro advice
    considering $1000 unit with a $200 rebate; i bought a dishwasher a week ago and paid $200 for it, that was the cost of just your rebate. hate to think what you get for $1000?

    Bosch is a icon_cool.gifnice German name, bet the engineering is most excellent, otherwise they use the same design last ten years for their manufacture in grass huts in VietNam. A dramatic way to say their just is not any different than the next appliance. Reference something like eopinions.com

    This Bosch has 3 spray arms, as did our last dishwasher. I mentioned above in reply to Physiqueflex what I'll get for $800. Unique features that I really want. My question is the reliability of the brand, not second-guessing the price. I'm actually paying less than half what I could actually spend on one of these things. But thanks for your input.
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    Apr 30, 2015 3:27 PM GMT
    If you want to buy the best , buy a MIELE , it always has been the best rated appliance manufacturer here in Australia , but they for sure are expensive ..


    I have settled with the Haier appliances for my kitchen , it has been 5 years without any problems , and they are 5 times cheaper ..



    03-Haier-HDW9TFE3_SS_angle_Closed-471x74


    Haier Compact 450mm Dishwasher (HDW9 –TFE3SS, RRP $749)
    Nine place settings and seven wash programs, including a 30-minute fast wash, packed into a compact form factor that is ideal for apartments and studios.
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    Apr 30, 2015 4:05 PM GMT
    neffa saidIf you want to buy the best , buy a MIELE , it always has been the best rated appliance manufacturer here in Australia , but they for sure are expensive ..

    I have settled with the Haier appliances for my kitchen , it has been 5 years without any problems , and they are 5 times cheaper ..

    03-Haier-HDW9TFE3_SS_angle_Closed-471x74

    Haier Compact 450mm Dishwasher (HDW9 –TFE3SS, RRP $749)
    Nine place settings and seven wash programs, including a 30-minute fast wash, packed into a compact form factor that is ideal for apartments and studios.

    We already have the space for a regular-sized dishwasher, rather than a compact. And I don't recall seeing Haier dishwashers anywhere. I do see their compact "dorm" refrigerators in US stores. Good info for those who might have limited kitchen space, in areas where the Haier is available.
  • metta

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    Apr 30, 2015 4:10 PM GMT
    So do your kitchen appliances have different brand names?

    I have always tried to keep mine all the same brand so that they match. But then again, I almost never use my dishwasher. I find it easier to wash by hand because it would take me forever to fill a dishwasher and I hate the thought of dirty dishes sitting in a dishwasher.
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    Apr 30, 2015 4:14 PM GMT
    I had a miele, it was a $2000 pile of shit..... I adopted the repairman to save on housecalls. fyi a lot of companies are jobbing their products out now and throwing their own tag on them......I had an expensive coffee maker, built in type, with the Viking brand tag on it....then found out it was made generically in Spain....

    ya don't necessarily get what ya pay for anymore.
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    Apr 30, 2015 6:58 PM GMT
    metta8 saidSo do your kitchen appliances have different brand names?

    I have always tried to keep mine all the same brand so that they match. But then again, I almost never use my dishwasher. I find it easier to wash by hand because it would take me forever to fill a dishwasher and I hate the thought of dirty dishes sitting in a dishwasher.

    We did consider a Kitchen Aid dishwasher, since we have a Kitchen Aid refrigerator, toaster oven, stand mixer and matching 4-slice toaster. But the Consumer Reports performance review wasn't that enouraging, nor the reliability history. On top of that we weren't finding the right mix of features we want.

    This Bosch we're considering (and will likely buy unless we hear of some serious drawbacks or reliability issues) is also available in black, to match all our other appliances, that also include the black stove and the microwave. I even special-ordered a Wusthof cutlery set with a black butcher block last Christmas, to complete a totally black theme.

    My husband said he would not consider anything with a stainless finish, only black would do. But this black Bosch will blend in very nicely with the other stuff in the kitchen, and you can't see its brand name on the front.

    As for small dishwasher loads, we have enough daily kitchenware & utensils to last about 4 days without washing. So we just keep loading the machine until it's full, and use the rinse cycle if food needs to be removed before the full cycle is run.
  • metta

    Posts: 39090

    Apr 30, 2015 7:20 PM GMT
    ^
    my oven died earlier this year... and all my kitchen appliances were white....so I switched them all out for stainless steel, same brand...so that they match. I actually really liked the white with the glass over it look but people want stainless...so I thought it would make my home easier to sell when the time comes.

    FYI, the self cleaning thing on ovens are hard on them. I have been told to either use the self clean option on a regular basis or not at all. That is how mine died (without any previous problems) and many other people have experienced the same thing.
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    Apr 30, 2015 7:34 PM GMT
    All three of our 20 year old appliances failed last year over the course of a month, and the old KitchenAid dishwasher was replaced with an 800 series Bosch. With the old KA, dishes had to be rinsed and brushed off or the dishes wouldn't really get clean. As such, the KA functioned only as an oily residue remover.

    With the Bosch, I don't even have to rinse the dishes, and they come out sparkling clean. What does need scrubbing are pots and pans, as cooked on food needs to be scrubbed off with a steel scrubber pad. Really, I can't say anything negative about it. Although not an issue for me, some folks don't like that Bosch dishwashers don't have a heated dry cycle (they rely on a liquid rinse aid.) Personally, I don't want chemical residue on my clean dishes, so I skip the rinse aid and just open it after the load is finished, mop up any pooled water on top of dishes with a towel, and let the dishes air dry.

    An important thing to consider is that modern appliances ALL have electronic controls. With that in mind, all our appliances are now plugged into heavy duty surge suppressors. With the Bosch, during the first load, I noticed moisture condensing on the underside of the granite counter and dripping on to the dishwasher door, where the controls are located. I immediately reinstalled it a half inch lower, such that air can circulate around the unit, venting off moisture before it can condense and drip. From reading complaints online, it's the circuit boards that fail, so protecting them from moisture and electrical spikes is essential.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Apr 30, 2015 8:39 PM GMT
    Bosch is great. I've had two of them in different houses and a GE and a Viking. Miele is a great brand but I find them over priced (I have a Miele cooktop). When my Viking went out, I asked the repairman (pronouncing the Viking dead) which brand he thought was the best and he immediately said Bosch. Since I'd had good luck with one in the past, I got another and have been very pleased. If you look at them, some have a stainless interior and some don't. I'd get the stainless. It heats up and helps the cleaning function. And Bosch is reasonably priced.
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    Apr 30, 2015 9:36 PM GMT
    My previous washing machine was a Bosch and lasted 18 years without any maintenance. It was still working okay when I got rid of it, but the pump was getting tired, so I replaced it with another Bosch when I saw one on offer. I also have a Bosch tumble dryer and Bosch dishwasher. I do not think Bosch is a stellar brand, but it is above average and definitely worth paying a bit more for. My new Bosch washer and dryer are so energy efficient that, when operated on my off-peak cheap-rate electricity tariff, their power usage amounts to about £15 ($23) per year each (based on 2 full washes per week).

    Miele appliances have a reputation among engineers for being almost bomb-proof, but they are very expensive.
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    May 01, 2015 1:51 AM GMT
    paradox saidAll three of our 20 year old appliances failed last year over the course of a month, and the old KitchenAid dishwasher was replaced with an 800 series Bosch. With the old KA, dishes had to be rinsed and brushed off or the dishes wouldn't really get clean. As such, the KA functioned only as an oily residue remover.

    With the Bosch, I don't even have to rinse the dishes, and they come out sparkling clean. What does need scrubbing are pots and pans, as cooked on food needs to be scrubbed off with a steel scrubber pad. Really, I can't say anything negative about it. Although not an issue for me, some folks don't like that Bosch dishwashers don't have a heated dry cycle (they rely on a liquid rinse aid.) Personally, I don't want chemical residue on my clean dishes, so I skip the rinse aid and just open it after the load is finished, mop up any pooled water on top of dishes with a towel, and let the dishes air dry.

    An important thing to consider is that modern appliances ALL have electronic controls. With that in mind, all our appliances are now plugged into heavy duty surge suppressors. With the Bosch, during the first load, I noticed moisture condensing on the underside of the granite counter and dripping on to the dishwasher door, where the controls are located. I immediately reinstalled it a half inch lower, such that air can circulate around the unit, venting off moisture before it can condense and drip. From reading complaints online, it's the circuit boards that fail, so protecting them from moisture and electrical spikes is essential.

    Wonderful info! It's evidently the circuit board on our Whirlpool dishwasher that failed. At nearly 7 years I wasn't gonna mess with it.

    I did buy a Bosch 800 series late today. I will keep in mind your advice about installing the Bosch at a lower level (so much as the legs allow), since I'm gonna try the installation myself. I've done this before.
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    May 01, 2015 2:02 AM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    Miele appliances have a reputation among engineers for being almost bomb-proof, but they are very expensive.

    When I lived in a Berlin, German apartment in the late 1970s, courtesy of the US Army, we had a (free) community laundry room in the basement. The washers & dryers were all Miele. First time I ever encountered front-loader washers. But they worked great. I think (but can't firmly recall) my electric kitchen range was also Miele. At the time they were the leading German appliance maker.
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    May 01, 2015 2:05 AM GMT
    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! And thank you guys!

    I did buy a dishwasher today, a Bosch 800 series in black. Arrives next Thursday. I had to make a decision quickly, because the Bosch rebate program ended today.

    I should have started this thread earlier, but you guys were able to give me some good info on short notice that helped me. THANKS! icon_biggrin.gif