Why do we prevent people from killing themselves?

  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    May 04, 2015 6:30 AM GMT
    If someone is really that unhappy being alive why keep them? Its almost cruel
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    May 04, 2015 7:02 AM GMT
    Because most suicidal people suffer from a mental disorder with medical underpinnings (chemical imbalances) and it isn't their fault. Those chemical imbalances can usually be treated, and their suicidal tendencies usually go away.

    Suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem.
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    May 04, 2015 10:43 AM GMT
    It's not cruel to help somebody who is depressed to overcome their negative feelings and get their life back on track.

    Cruelty would be to leave them to suffer with their problems and give in and not give them a chance to find happiness again.

    Psychological well-being is very important and a lot of people overlook it. If we have a physical condition, we get it treated. We don't kill ourselves when we have an injury or an infection, we seek medical treatment. It's worth seeking help when we are suffering from long term feelings of hopelessness as well.
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    May 04, 2015 2:04 PM GMT
    Relapse and recovery
    What happens after someone stops you from taking your own life?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-32530646
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    May 04, 2015 3:23 PM GMT
    Inque saidIf someone is really that unhappy being alive why keep them?
    To keep the shrinks in business. icon_twisted.gif
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    May 04, 2015 4:57 PM GMT
    Suicide because of extreme, chronic, incurable pain is largely considered acceptable. Suicide for other reasons is what you're asking about, I'm guessing. Most people who attempt suicide do it because they feel hopeless about something. That may seem reasonable in the abstract, but think about everyone you feel even slightly close to. Can you imagine anything that could be happening to any one of them that suicide made sense for? That you or others who know them couldn't or wouldn't step in and help with the crisis? No? That's why as a society we throw up roadblocks to suicide. Most suicidal people just can't envision how to make things better but the truth is for almost all, there are solutions to the issues.
  • secondstartot...

    Posts: 1314

    May 04, 2015 5:12 PM GMT
    because we are supposed to care about each other...it is what is supposed to make us human ..in this bleak difficult life where there is no certainty about anything ..and some people are not as strong or as brave as others ...and because we are not antelope we try and help those who cant see the way out of the dark the same as we take care of the elderly and the sick and the destitute or at least as we should ! and some people come off the rails of life a bit and we should try help them back ...not throw them away

    I have had three friends commit suicide and the pain and devastation they leave behind is monumental ...it truly is a terrible thing to know that a person felt so alone and so burdened that they could no longer cope

    I know I have been "there" and fortunately I have friends who were miraculously there each time ....actually one of my worst depressions when I was nearly "there" was when one of those friends I spoke about killed himself literally literally in about the same week that I was going to ..

    anyway ..we help because that is what we are supposed to do
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    May 04, 2015 7:12 PM GMT
    Because it negatively affects the ones closest to him/her.
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    May 04, 2015 7:30 PM GMT
    if your active and productive, prone to take chances you will fail. No matter how much you love life at sometime YOU WILL CONTEMPLATE SUICIDE.

    and later in your life feel foolish for the thought.
  • collegedude12

    Posts: 75

    May 04, 2015 9:51 PM GMT
    Svnw688 saidBecause most suicidal people suffer from a mental disorder with medical underpinnings (chemical imbalances) and it isn't their fault. Those chemical imbalances can usually be treated, and their suicidal tendencies usually go away.

    Suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem.


    this pretty much. permanent solution to a temporary problem. most people feel like everything sucks at some point or another but things can always get better too
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    May 04, 2015 10:08 PM GMT
    Because it's illegal, it makes a mess, it negatively affects other people, and is a burden on society if you survive with diminished capacity.
  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    May 06, 2015 12:02 AM GMT
    swimmer_sf saidBecause it's illegal, it makes a mess, it negatively affects other people, and is a burden on society if you survive with diminished capacity.


    how is it illegal?
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    May 06, 2015 1:02 AM GMT
    I think if we allowed people to euthanase themselves (for reasons other than terminal medical conditions) we'd have to confront the fact that they would rather die than live in our society. I don't think we're prepared to accept there could be anything fundamentally wrong, which is why it's always them who's 'messed up' and not us.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    May 06, 2015 9:06 AM GMT


    Inque saidIf someone is really that unhappy being alive why keep them? Its almost cruel


    Thank you for reminding me there are people who are so dumb they have to use three fingers up their ass to determine if they need to take a shit.

    I've read other posts by you and you seemed to be making slow progress towards growing up. It's pretty clear now that you've reverted.
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    May 06, 2015 9:18 AM GMT
    Inque said
    swimmer_sf saidBecause it's illegal, it makes a mess, it negatively affects other people, and is a burden on society if you survive with diminished capacity.


    how is it illegal?


    Assisted suicide is illegal, and while you haven't mentioned helping people to commit suicide, you're basically talking about letting people kill themselves and not taking action against it, which would likely be considered immoral.
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    May 06, 2015 9:32 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidI support self-termination in situations where a person's medical situation precludes him from having a healthy, fulfilling, productive life.

    For example, if a once independent person becomes a quadriplegic and needs 24/7/365 medical care and can't even eat, bath or wipe his own ass after defecating and chooses to "exit" I would support his choice. If a person is suffering from an incurable disease which will eventually result in death anyway I see no problem in expediting the inevitable.

    Mental illness is a touchy and gray area. If a person is depressed for decades and nothing works then who are we to force this person to carry on? But if that person can be treated with medication to rise above his desire to die then that's nothing short of a miracle. But that doesn't always happen.

    Unless that person lives in a first world environment, he's not going to have access to the medley of psychotropic drugs and amphetamines to 'balance him out.'


    I think you might be referring to euthanasia.
    In terms of situations where someone is left practically a vegetable then I'd agree with euthanasia because there is no quality of life there.

    Mental illness is different on the other hand because people can have it in varying degrees besides the multitude of different mental illnesses one can have.
    Having a "will" to live cannot really be defined medically and therefore at least in a legal sense, suicide or euthanasia cannot be an option because physiologically if they are able to live, then they should live.

    Of course sometimes even with all the help medically and socially that is available there are cases where suicide happens regardless, but I don't feel like because someone is in that state we should just encourage them to kill themselves.

    Not that I'm saying that's what you suggested but just in general I think that's a cruel thing to imagine.
    You never know how and when someone will have the drive to continue living so everyone should be given the opportunity to find it rather than be encouraged to just end their lives.

    Anyway on a side note, what I find ironic about this thread is how there are people who have responded in a way where it's just the right thing to do to help someone not commit suicide.
    Then on the other hand, we have a forum that more often than not delves into personal attacks, belittling and in some cases in the past, people telling someone to go kill themselves.
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    May 06, 2015 1:17 PM GMT
    PhysicalCity saidI think if we allowed people to euthanase themselves (for reasons other than terminal medical conditions) we'd have to confront the fact that they would rather die than live in our society. I don't think we're prepared to accept there could be anything fundamentally wrong, which is why it's always them who's 'messed up' and not us.


    But depending on the reason why someone commits suicide, people aren't going to change themselves or their beliefs regardless. For example, I've read about murder suicides where parents kill disabled kids before killing themselves. An emphasis I've seen on some of those stories from the public is that, it wouldn't have happened if the parent had just had an abortion, and not saddled themselves with a 'burden', even though in some of those cases, the parents are actually fearful about what would happen to their kid if they weren't around to look after them. Not that I think abortion is wrong, but it's just an example of something that, in spite of how those parents feel, there are other people who aren't going to stop viewing disabled kids as burdens, even if they know it bothers the parents. It just comes down to what people feel, what they believe in, and what they think is moral. which doesn't match up with other people's beliefs.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    May 06, 2015 2:42 PM GMT
    Marmoy said

    But depending on the reason why someone commits suicide, people aren't going to change themselves or their beliefs regardless. For example, I've read about murder suicides where parents kill disabled kids before killing themselves. An emphasis I've seen on some of those stories from the public is that, it wouldn't have happened if the parent had just had an abortion, and not saddled themselves with a 'burden', even though in some of those cases, the parents are actually fearful about what would happen to their kid if they weren't around to look after them. Not that I think abortion is wrong, but it's just an example of something that, in spite of how those parents feel, there are other people who aren't going to stop viewing disabled kids as burdens, even if they know it bothers the parents. It just comes down to what people feel, what they believe in, and what they think is moral. which doesn't match up with other people's beliefs.


    Just this morning I switched MSNBC and the very first words were from a psychiatrist talking about suicides saying, "almost everyone has suicidal ideation at least once in their lifetime. Only a very small number ever act on it."

    In that you have the biggest reason against legally and socially condoned suicide. A fifteen year old girl who is suicidal over break up with a boy her age should not end her life. Neither should a man or woman who has suddenly lost a job. There's really no reason for a 49 year old man to do it out of grief over the death of a partner. A man who has failed in business shouldn't think suicide is the answer. The example you point out of elderly parents killing a disabled child and then themselves is one that borders on being extremely rare and hardly a bellwether by which we should look at all suicides.

    In fact it takes much of the human element away from this to even talk about suicide as one consolidated concept. Euthanasia for people in constant pain or suffering from debilitating or terminal illnesses cannot be considered with all other suicides. Even up to just 70 years ago, and possibly even up to this day it has not been all that uncommon for some individuals prison or execution to be given the option of suicide in order to preserve some degree of their honor and reputation.

    Let's try not to talk about suicide as if we're painting with a yard wide brush.
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    May 06, 2015 3:05 PM GMT
    Marmoy said
    But depending on the reason why someone commits suicide, people aren't going to change themselves or their beliefs regardless.


    That rather proves my point: to agree to let or facilitate people to take their lives, we'd have to create (as a society and as individuals) an intellectual construct to account for that decision other than 'they are fucked up'. That requires a shift of belief since it's our beliefs that make suicide taboo (in most instances) in the first place.

    What this would mean in practical terms is accepting that many (though not all) of those who are profoundly depressed/suicidal are actually alienated, detached or damaged by the very same societal 'norms' that form our epistemic reality and give meaning and purpose to our modern lives.

    And accepting such would undermine the faith of the majority who cope pretty well with this society/reality: it would be akin to a religious person denying the existence of their creator whilst accepting their everyday religious teachings. That just won't work: how can you maintain your faith when you're saying that actually it's founded on a false sense of reality (cognitive dissonance)?

    Which partly explains why so many people in so many societies are so instinctively - sometimes violently - opposed to suicide. Just like with religion, you mess with my beliefs, I will fight you.
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    May 06, 2015 5:24 PM GMT
    Good postings PhysCity.

    There was a guy who used to post here but haven't seen in a while. Sorry I can't think of the name offhand. He used to advocate suicide which I think has its place but he took it a bit far especially when he undermined a conversation myself and another were engage in when another guy opened a thread which seemed a call out for help. The young guy calling out for help (or so it was all laid out at the time) seemed like a real nice guy and he'd fluctuate between moods. So this other guy instead of tossing him a line tossed him a knife to cut the line. So while I definitely advocate suicide as alternative generally, in practice that comes with some great responsibility which the advocate seemed to be shrugging. Super pissed me off. And the troubled guy stopped posting, so that was worrisome.

    But I think you are absolutely right especially with regard to perceptions of reality and who's crazy.

    I'd add reason for suicide aside from mental stability or anything emotional or physical or as you say those who find they don't fit. Even a capable, stable, emotionally healthy person might simply not like this. My mother used to make me eat my vegetables. I like them now, but I didn't then. Mostly because mom didn't know how to cook. I'm surprised she knew where to find the kitchen. Mostly we did take out and restaurants. But at home, where not risking a scene, she'd make me sit there until I'd finished feeding the dog under the table. I didn't like it and I wasn't going to eat it. I feel the same way about anal sex today. You want me to what!?! No!!! Not happening.

    I could see my own self getting to that point in living, where I've had enough of it. Gee, this was fun, God, but what else ya got?

    To me, our lives are sovereign. Someone's rights and abilities to end their life with minimal if any at all suffering ought to be protected, to be neither illegal nor even moralized. But that's tricky, of course, because minds do change, because chemistry can determine balances, because perceptions can be delusional. Sometimes stopping someone is because you care. It's one of those doors that should be left open but that you shouldn't push anyone through. Which is the very tricky part because some do require assistance, especially to end their suffering.

    This is still early in that debate. Outside of seppuku, self-emulation and suicide bombing, religion has held this closely closeted for probably as long as it kept us there too. I haven't kept up with it much so I don't know if your thinking is original but I do find it unique at least to conversation I've seen on this limited forum. It shows you put effort into thinking. I love that.
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    May 06, 2015 6:07 PM GMT
    Inque said
    swimmer_sf saidBecause it's illegal, it makes a mess, it negatively affects other people, and is a burden on society if you survive with diminished capacity.


    how is it illegal?


    It was genuinely illegal for hundreds of years, hence the expression "commit suicide". Also, people who committed suicide used to be buried at a crossroads with a stake through their hearts to stop them coming back after they died and haunting people (it was believed they were cursed).
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 06, 2015 8:59 PM GMT
    I've seen some members here recommending suicide to each other a few times..
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 06, 2015 9:38 PM GMT
    Of course!icon_biggrin.gif
  • Jeepguy2

    Posts: 159

    May 06, 2015 9:42 PM GMT
    Inque saidIf someone is really that unhappy being alive why keep them? Its almost cruel


    Because if people were allowed to go have themselves painlessly euthanized the banksters and tax collectors are going to get stiffed big time!!!
  • CRandallB

    Posts: 2

    May 15, 2015 2:03 PM GMT
    Svnw688 saidBecause most suicidal people suffer from a mental disorder with medical underpinnings (chemical imbalances) and it isn't their fault. Those chemical imbalances can usually be treated, and their suicidal tendencies usually go away.

    Suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem.

    Or a final solution to a long term painful problem. You obviously don't live with constant chronic pain nor have had ur life ruined by a physiological bomb that went off when u were 39 and wrecked ur life.