Exposing dishonest conduct on the forum ….. and what to do about it: 12/28/2015 and 1/10/2016 again

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 06, 2015 12:11 AM GMT
    UPDATED: New posts added to illustrate current examples and to make sure some who have not visited the forum in a while are aware of the behavior.

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    To keep the thread from being deleted, I won’t name the party here, but from the quotes below it will be apparent.

    It’s one thing to include favorable excerpts from an article and minimize any points that are counter to what you’re trying to present. I try to avoid doing that because if I don’t include those passages counter to the point I’m making, someone else surely will, and there goes my credibility.

    If someone accurately quotes or describes an article that I think is slanted, I may comment on that but don’t consider it an indication of dishonesty on the RJ member’s part.

    What does slightly cross the line is if the RJ member changes the headline (or thread title serving as a headline) to emphasize something that is not emphasized or even directly stated in the article. I have called out the member for repeatedly doing this.

    But what significantly crosses the line is if an RJ member includes an excerpt, but changes the excerpt in a material way to support his position. I have called out the same member for doing this.

    What is even worse is stating as fact that which is clearly not stated or even implied in the article, and still worse, when the fact is false.

    I and a few others will probably not have the time to fact check all the threads from this member, so this message serves to advise others to take anything he says with a grain of salt unless you choose to fact check it yourself. Better yet, if you ignore his threads and deprive him of the view counts he most likely craves, they will soon sink to the bottom, where they belong.


    The red bold statement is not from the article, directly or by implication, and as bobbobbob found out, is false. I changed the font for emphasis.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4046786


    woodsmen said
    The 10 Most Impoverished Places in America Are Governed by Republicans

    NYT: The 10 lowest counties in the country, by this ranking, include a cluster of six in the Appalachian Mountains of eastern Kentucky (Breathitt, Clay, Jackson, Lee, Leslie and Magoffin), along with four others in various parts of the rural South: Humphreys County, Miss.; East Carroll Parish, La.; Jefferson County, Ga.; and Lee County, Ark.

    The ranking looks at six data points for each county in the United States: education (percentage of residents with at least a bachelor’s degree), median household income, unemployment rate, disability rate, life expectancy and obesity.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/26/upshot/where-are-the-hardest-places-to-live-in-the-us.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=1


    bobbobbob saidWoodsmen Caught Spreading BULLSHIT.
    Reading the article cited below I looked for any reference saying the counties Woodsmen listed are governed by GOP.


    woodsmen said The 10 Most Impoverished Places in America Are Governed by Republicans
    (LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES)

    NYT: The 10 lowest counties in the country, by this ranking, include a cluster of six in the Appalachian Mountains of eastern Kentucky (Breathitt, Clay, Jackson, Lee, Leslie and Magoffin), along with four others in various parts of the rural South: Humphreys County, Miss.; East Carroll Parish, La.; Jefferson County, Ga.; and Lee County, Ark.


    Color coded for your easy comprehension

    Breathitt County KY. Democrats 10,390 / Repoblicans 888
    Clay County KY. Democrat majority until 2012. 2012 election fraud case busted 6 Democrat officials, 1 Republican. 156 years in sentences handed down. http://www.kentucky.com/2010/03/26/1197075/jury-convicts-all-8-defendants.html
    Jackson Co Ky. Democrats 312,251 / Republicans 176,884

    Lee County Ky Democrats 1,954 / 3,193
    Leslie County KY Democrats 948 / Republicans 7,507
    Magoffin County Ky Democrats 7,153 / Republicans 2,799 [url]http://elect.ky.gov/SiteCollectionDocuments/Election%20Results/2010-2019/2014/statcnty.txt[/url]
    Humphreys County, Miss 77% Democrat 74% Black http://www.city-data.com/county/Humphreys_County-MS.html
    East Carroll Parrish La. 74+% Democrat 70% black. Obama got 87% of vote. http://www.louisiana-demographics.com/east-carroll-parish-demographics
    Jefferson County, Ga 55% black 54% Democrat. http://www.homefacts.com/politics/Georgia/Jefferson-County.html
    Lee County Arkansas 56% black 58% Democrats

    You can't make up your own facts just because you can't find any you like
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14389

    May 06, 2015 12:31 AM GMT
    Beware of the ballerina bozo from Tulsa or Svnw688, that man has a horrible habit of manipulating facts and distorting the truth to cover up for the corrupt, incompetent Democratic Party especially the hapless Hillary ho.



    These poor, rural Appalachian counties show a striking resemblance to what occurred in most older northern cities courtesy of the democratic blue.

    The Appalachian Regional Commission was supposed to help develop this backward rural mountain region but like most expensive do gooder democratic programs, it failed in the end and Appalachia is still miserably poor and underdeveloped.icon_sad.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 06, 2015 12:34 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidBeware of the ballerina bozo from Tulsa or Svne688, that man has a horrible habit of manipulating facts and distorting the truth to cover up for the corrupt, incompetent Democratic Party especially the hapless Hillary ho.

    These poor, rural Appalachian counties show a striking resemblance to what occurred in most older northern cities courtesy of the democratic blue.

    The Appalachian Regional Commission was supposed to help develop this backward rural mountain region but like most expensive do gooder democratic programs, it failed in the end and Appalachia is still miserably poor and underdeveloped.

    Selectively choosing facts should be called out, and that is a big part of what happens during debates or back and forth discussion. I would not want to give the perp described in this thread any cover because his actions are clearly different, and I think unique here.
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    May 06, 2015 2:06 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    socalfitness said
    roadbikeRob saidBeware of the ballerina bozo from Tulsa or Svne688, that man has a horrible habit of manipulating facts and distorting the truth to cover up for the corrupt, incompetent Democratic Party especially the hapless Hillary ho.

    These poor, rural Appalachian counties show a striking resemblance to what occurred in most older northern cities courtesy of the democratic blue.

    The Appalachian Regional Commission was supposed to help develop this backward rural mountain region but like most expensive do gooder democratic programs, it failed in the end and Appalachia is still miserably poor and underdeveloped.

    Selectively choosing facts should be called out, and that is a big part of what happens during debates or back and forth discussion. I would not want to give the perp described in this thread any cover because his actions are clearly different, and I think unique here.


    Good point.

    To add one more point in response to a couple of messages I received -

    I don't intend to report this kind of behavior to the Admin. I feel comfortable reporting it to other members, but I don't consider it my place to contact the Admin. Given the thread title, I assume it will be seen. The conduct of the perp could be viewed as a violation of the TOU sentence on Promotion of False Information. Aside from that, I think a reasonable way to view specific conduct would be to assess if such conduct is harmful to the site. I think a good rule of thumb is to assume a particular practice were to become commonplace, i.e. engaged in by several members. The forum would lose credibility and I think the level of activity would decline. But it is not my call, of course. All I can say is if I were in charge, the perp would be gone.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 06, 2015 2:25 AM GMT
    IAmazeMyself saidwoodsmen is offering some of the more interesting posts here.

    If you contest the facts he presents you should enter a debate and make your case.

    I have and I have nailed him as have others.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 06, 2015 2:29 AM GMT
    IAmazeMyself said
    socalfitness said
    IAmazeMyself saidwoodsmen is offering some of the more interesting posts here.

    If you contest the facts he presents you should enter a debate and make your case.

    I have and I have nailed him as have others.


    Have you applied your keen scrutiny to posts by Southbeach?

    woodsmen is unique. Have never seen SouthBeach do anything similar. Sorry.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    May 06, 2015 5:03 AM GMT
    IAmazeMyself said
    socalfitness said
    IAmazeMyself saidwoodsmen is offering some of the more interesting posts here.

    If you contest the facts he presents you should enter a debate and make your case.

    I have and I have nailed him as have others.


    Have you applied your keen scrutiny to posts by Southbeach?


    I have several times randomly not just on SB but on everyone. I tend to do it with any source with which I'm familiar by tracking it back to its original source and comparing the info in the link in RJ to the original article. My main reason in doing this is not to check individuals in RJ but the sources used for doing the same thing Woodsmen did. I've caught several smaller instances of this and pointed them out.

    In the case of Woodsmen's misrepresentation I read the linked article for any mention of those counties being governed by Republicans and found none. He gave no link for how he came to that conclusion so I did some research. Had I found that he was correct I would have confirmed that information in a comment without revealing I'd checked on it. More than a few times I've checked things posted by liberals and found out they were right and gone on to confirm that with a comment without much fanfare about it.

    AND if I ever find a conservative has done it I WILL call them out on it as well. My primary allegiance is not to a party or an ideology but to truth. I will not lie to promote my own beliefs and have no tolerance for those who do.

    Socal might as well have been reading my mind when he wrote,

    It’s one thing to include favorable excerpts from an article and minimize any points that are counter to what you’re trying to present. I try to avoid doing that because if I don’t include those passages counter to the point I’m making, someone else surely will, and there goes my credibility.

    Since I've been on RJ I've intentionally omitted or altered details from quoted sources TWICE (and this can be confirmed by people in RJ) One time I omitted that a person I started a thread about was gay in order to allow any liberal to bring up his sexuality as somehow increasing his very dubious credibility. NO ONE CAUGHT IT.

    The other time I attributed an interesting quote from a liberal to a conservative just to see who the fuck of you are really keeping up with current events. IT STAYED UNDETECTED FOR THREE DAYS UNTIL I HAD TO GIVE CLUES ABOUT WHAT I'D DONE.

    And NO less that twenty times that have been repeated as much as fifty times I've caught two individual RJ members intentionally misquoting others or taking comments completely out of context in attempts to disparage or discredit them.

    There should be no doubt about who they are. Then some of the lies told in here are so friggin ridiculous the people who tell deserve more humiliation that can be given in a forum...

    Here's an example of a really stupid lie.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4035470
    Here's another.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2571326?forumpage=13#908880_4035653_name

    And I have loads more bookmarked



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 06, 2015 5:09 AM GMT
    You people are taking this forum way too seriously.
    No one is changing anyone's mind on here, that's been proven over many years. So why the acrimony?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 06, 2015 5:19 AM GMT
    Sharkspeare saidYou people are taking this forum way too seriously.
    No one is changing anyone's mind on here, that's been proven over many years. So why the acrimony?

    There are many folks, maybe moderates, who read the forums - sometimes only the thread titles and believe them. If it's worth spending time here, then it's worth trying to keep the forums clean. In California I have voted for Democrats over Republicans just because of integrity.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    May 06, 2015 5:56 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Sharkspeare saidYou people are taking this forum way too seriously.
    No one is changing anyone's mind on here, that's been proven over many years. So why the acrimony?

    There are many folks, maybe moderates, who read the forums - sometimes only the thread titles and believe them. If it's worth spending time here, then it's worth trying to keep the forums clean. In California I have voted for Democrats over Republicans just because of integrity.



    ^^^^
    This has nothing to do with changing people's minds. It has everything to do with lying to push a fucking ideology. Woodsman made up that line about all those counties being governed by the GOP.

    I caught it. SoCal brought it to the next level. I understand why he did. Too bad you don't.

    EDIT
    I was looking for something else and found this.
    Here's another lie by a well documented liar in RJ. He reached up in his fat ass and pulled out a lie about Jeb Bush having done voters registrations several times as a Hispanic.

    The the lying fat ass ever come around to admitting he was wrong? No.
    That's the one thing I can respect Woodsmen for. He owned up to and he's the first and only.


    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4033413
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 06, 2015 6:06 AM GMT
    bobbobbob said
    socalfitness said
    Sharkspeare saidYou people are taking this forum way too seriously.
    No one is changing anyone's mind on here, that's been proven over many years. So why the acrimony?

    There are many folks, maybe moderates, who read the forums - sometimes only the thread titles and believe them. If it's worth spending time here, then it's worth trying to keep the forums clean. In California I have voted for Democrats over Republicans just because of integrity.



    ^^^^
    This has nothing to do with changing people's minds. It has everything to do with lying to push a fucking ideology. Woodsman made up that line about all those counties being governed by the GOP.

    I caught it. SoCal brought it to the next level. I understand why he did. Too bad you don't.

    To try and keep things above an ideological debate in this thread, I would keep in mind there are many on both sides who don't lie. When someone feels they must lie to push an ideology, while it could result from a shortfall in the ideology, it can also result from a shortfall in the person telling the lie.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    May 06, 2015 6:34 AM GMT
    Here's another one. Cherry picking to its extreme.

    The original title of this myopic op/ed piece was
    Black Culture Is not the Problem

    When it got to RJ it was "Profitability of Racism"... based tenuously on a single paragraph near the bottom of the article.
    To be honest the article is worth reading just to refresh your memory of the convoluted reasoning that came about in the 1960s and 70s on this issue is still as convoluted as ever.

    NYT: Specifically, the problem rests on the continued profitability of racism. Freddie Gray’s exposure to lead paint as a child, his suspected participation in the drug trade, and the relative confinement of black unrest to black communities during this week’s riot are all features of a city and a country that still segregate people along racial lines, to the financial enrichment of landlords, corner store merchants and other vendors selling second-rate goods.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4043663?forumpage=1
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    May 06, 2015 8:08 AM GMT
    For me this is a deeper and bigger issue than what woodsmen did. It goes against a core value that was ingrained in me from childhood; Words should always be attached to substance. Never say words you don't mean. Never say words you cannot back up with reasoning or facts. Never intentionally say words that are untrue. Never make verbal commitments you cannot live up to.

    There's a great benefit to this. People will know when you say something they can rely on your words. You build trust and respect in business, friendships and even with adversaries because they know your words are based on substance and not thin air.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 06, 2015 8:55 AM GMT
    Socal, you joker. When I started reading your OP I thought you were finally going to repudiate Southbeach as the misrepresenter-in-chief that he is. Instead, you simply prove yourself to be a cheerleader for the RJ conservative rump.

    Keep it up, woodsmen, you are obviously getting to them!
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    May 06, 2015 11:02 AM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidSocal, you joker. When I started reading your OP I thought you were finally going to repudiate Southbeach as the misrepresenter-in-chief that he is. Instead, you simply prove yourself to be a cheerleader for the RJ conservative rump.

    Keep it up, woodsmen, you are obviously getting to them!

    I have never seen southbeach do anything close to what woodsmen does. You don't understand the issue is not politics. It's about fundamental honesty. I would not like to see someone whose general politics I agree with make up lies the way woodsmen does. In addition to demonstrating their own weakness, it also does not put their positions in a favorable light, suggesting their position is so weak, it needs lying.
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    May 06, 2015 11:59 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    I have never seen southbeach do anything close to what woodsmen does.


    There's none so blind as those who will not see.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14389

    May 06, 2015 12:07 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    socalfitness said
    I have never seen southbeach do anything close to what woodsmen does.


    There's none so blind as those who will not see.
    Yeah, all the extremist liberal hens fall into this category. They are all blind sycophants to the corrupt, incompetent, over regulating, tax and spend donkey dorks, the political party responsible for the decline and deterioration of the once proud and prosperous older northern city. This same political party has also caused similar distress in the rural, mountainous region of Appalachia. But all you extremist liberal hens are blind to that true fact. Go figure.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 06, 2015 12:11 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidYeah, all the extremist liberal hens fall into this category.


    "Liberal hens." Not content with turning a blind eye to Southbeach's double talk, you're now stealing his well-worn catchphrases too (and it's not like you don't have plenty of your own to parrot).
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14389

    May 06, 2015 1:28 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    roadbikeRob saidYeah, all the extremist liberal hens fall into this category.


    "Liberal hens." Not content with turning a blind eye to Southbeach's double talk, you're now stealing his well-worn catchphrases too (and it's not like you don't have plenty of your own to parrot).
    FYI, that is "extremist liberal hens" which is my enhanced definition of ultra leftists who are too far out in left field. Get it right bunky.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 07, 2015 1:31 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    IAmazeMyself said
    socalfitness said
    IAmazeMyself saidwoodsmen is offering some of the more interesting posts here.

    If you contest the facts he presents you should enter a debate and make your case.

    I have and I have nailed him as have others.


    Have you applied your keen scrutiny to posts by Southbeach?

    woodsmen is unique. Have never seen SouthBeach do anything similar. Sorry.



    LMAO!!!
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    May 07, 2015 1:35 AM GMT
    How is the substituted title inaccurate?
    Your listing of the political party affiliation of the registered voters in the areas is not the same thing as what the title says... who they are "GOVERNED BY."
    So who are they governed by?
    Are these areas represented by Republicans or Democrats?

    Let's see... Mississippi, Georgia, Louisiana, etc. Yes, these are RED STATES. It's not exactly a news flash, is it?

    These poor areas are all in the south, so I'm guessing their leaders are overwhelmingly Republican...

    It sounds like the original poster's title is accurate.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 07, 2015 3:17 AM GMT
    KissTheSky saidHow is the substituted title inaccurate?
    Your listing of the political party affiliation of the registered voters in the areas is not the same thing as what the title says... who they are "GOVERNED BY."
    So who are they governed by?
    Are these areas represented by Republicans or Democrats?

    Let's see... Mississippi, Georgia, Louisiana, etc. Yes, these are RED STATES. It's not exactly a news flash, is it?

    These poor areas are all in the south, so I'm guessing their leaders are overwhelmingly Republican...

    It sounds like the original poster's title is accurate.

    Nope - Look at the analysis by bobbobbob. woodsmen also admitted not "double checking" that statement, meaning he pulled it out of his ass. He also misled by indicating the statement was in the article he quoted, and it clearly was not.
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    May 07, 2015 3:19 AM GMT
    Radd said
    socalfitness said
    IAmazeMyself said
    socalfitness said
    IAmazeMyself saidwoodsmen is offering some of the more interesting posts here.

    If you contest the facts he presents you should enter a debate and make your case.

    I have and I have nailed him as have others.


    Have you applied your keen scrutiny to posts by Southbeach?

    woodsmen is unique. Have never seen SouthBeach do anything similar. Sorry.



    LMAO!!!

    When you finish laughing your ass off, why don't you pick your ass up and point to any case where Southbeach lied about a source he quoted.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 07, 2015 3:38 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Radd said
    socalfitness said
    IAmazeMyself said
    socalfitness said
    IAmazeMyself saidwoodsmen is offering some of the more interesting posts here.

    If you contest the facts he presents you should enter a debate and make your case.

    I have and I have nailed him as have others.


    Have you applied your keen scrutiny to posts by Southbeach?

    woodsmen is unique. Have never seen SouthBeach do anything similar. Sorry.



    LMAO!!!

    When you finish laughing your ass off, why don't you pick your ass up and point to any case where Southbeach lied about a source he quoted.


    AS IF.....I'm going to waste my time looking up all the lies of the biggest loser on this site. That's like asking for proof that Dolly Pardon has big breasts. He's the most hated creature here for good reason. He's a bigot, a liar, a racist, a homophobe and generally speaking the most hate filled person on the site. And the fact that you're defending him says a whole lot about your character.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 07, 2015 3:49 AM GMT
    Radd said
    socalfitness said
    Radd said
    socalfitness said
    IAmazeMyself said
    socalfitness said
    IAmazeMyself saidwoodsmen is offering some of the more interesting posts here.

    If you contest the facts he presents you should enter a debate and make your case.

    I have and I have nailed him as have others.


    Have you applied your keen scrutiny to posts by Southbeach?

    woodsmen is unique. Have never seen SouthBeach do anything similar. Sorry.



    LMAO!!!

    When you finish laughing your ass off, why don't you pick your ass up and point to any case where Southbeach lied about a source he quoted.

    AS IF.....I'm going to waste my time looking up all the lies of the biggest loser on this site. That's like asking for proof that Dolly Pardon has big breasts. He's the most hated creature here for good reason. He's a bigot, a liar, a racist, a homophobe and generally speaking the most hate filled person on the site. And the fact that you're defending him says a whole lot about your character.

    If you're are finished with the histrionics, I'll make my point. I can't comment on his popularity or to the degree he is hated because I can't poll all the RJ members. Not just the hysterical ones but all.

    His posts are anti-Obama and anti-Hillary for the most part, mostly policy based but sometimes against their characters. His sources are either mainstream (not-right leaning such as the Washington Post) or well-known right leaning sites such as the Daily Caller or Washington Examiner. I have never seen him misrepresent or alter the sources, as opposed to woodsmen.

    I don't recall ever reading him making an anti-gay or racist comment. If you think being anti-Obama and anti-Hillary means you're anti-gay, that's your problem.

    I submit your labels "bigot, a liar, a racist, a homophobe" cannot be supported. And that speaks to your character.