Older gay RJers, how noticeably different is society on a day-to-day basis with respect to gay acceptance when compared to 20, 30, 40+ years ago

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 10, 2015 7:21 PM GMT
    I'm interested in hearing about personal experiences rather than general societal changes.
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    May 10, 2015 7:31 PM GMT
    An older man I was hanging out with last night told me that being called "gay" or "homosexual" was like being called a pedophile today. icon_eek.gif

    he also mentioned there was a much larger cruising scene at parks and stuff like that. I asked him if he thought cruising at a park was kinda scary and awkward and he said "no it was exciting"
  • ThatSwimmerGu...

    Posts: 3755

    May 10, 2015 7:35 PM GMT
    http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/35hhrw/older_gay_redditors_how_noticeably_different_is/

    Someone is a Redditor.
  • Import

    Posts: 7190

    May 10, 2015 7:40 PM GMT
    i'd actually be interested in hearing some of these responses.
  • ThatSwimmerGu...

    Posts: 3755

    May 10, 2015 7:41 PM GMT
    Import saidi'd actually be interested in hearing some of these responses.
    The Reddit link has a lot of well written responses.
  • Import

    Posts: 7190

    May 10, 2015 7:42 PM GMT
    ThatSwimmerGuy93 said
    Import saidi'd actually be interested in hearing some of these responses.
    The Reddit link has a lot of well written responses.

    good shit, thanks man.
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    May 10, 2015 7:51 PM GMT
    snapbacks saidAn older man I was hanging out with last night told me that being called "gay" or "homosexual" was like being called a pedophile today. icon_eek.gif

    he also mentioned there was a much larger cruising scene at parks and stuff like that. I asked him if he thought cruising at a park was kinda scary and awkward and he said "no it was exciting"


    There's a video on U-Tube circa 1960. They seemed to make a direct connection of homosexual>>pedophilia. There were remnants of that view even in the 70s. Enough so that I distanced myself from my nieces and nephews just because I didn't want to have any issues. Silly I know, I ended up being their favorite uncle anyway. lol

    As for cruise areas, Griffith Park was hot in the 80s! Besides being cruisy it was a party spot. One guy brought his disco van and another brought a keg. Then they closed it to cars ;-(
    In Mpls the Mississippi River flats, in SD Balboa Park. Now if you get caught in public it's a big $$$ and legal deal.
  • ThatSwimmerGu...

    Posts: 3755

    May 10, 2015 7:54 PM GMT
    timmm55 said
    snapbacks saidAn older man I was hanging out with last night told me that being called "gay" or "homosexual" was like being called a pedophile today. icon_eek.gif

    he also mentioned there was a much larger cruising scene at parks and stuff like that. I asked him if he thought cruising at a park was kinda scary and awkward and he said "no it was exciting"


    There's a video on U-Tube circa 1960. They seemed to make a direct connection of homosexual>>pedophilia. There were remnants of that view even in the 70s. Enough so that I distanced myself from my nieces and nephews just because I didn't want to have any issues. Silly I know, I ended up being their favorite uncle anyway. lol

    As for cruise areas, Griffith Park was hot in the 80s! Besides being cruisy it was a party spot. One guy brought his disco van and another brought a keg. Then they closed it to cars ;-(
    In Mpls the Mississippi River flats, in SD Balboa Park. Now if you get caught in public it's a big $$$ and legal deal.




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    May 10, 2015 10:03 PM GMT
    The change most striking to me, though I don't know how noticeable it is to others, has been not so much the change of mind of people but of how they remember thinking before their minds changed.

    I'm friends with many wonderful people that I've known for 50plus years. And I notice this with my brother as well. So I'm positioned to witness this. They revise or embellish or alter emphasis on how they used to behave and think earlier to coincide with how they think and act today.

    I said to my brother the other day, if you were any more of a revisionist, you'd be a Republican. Because he's done and said homophobic things in the past that he now not only denies, but becomes quite offended when I revisit them for whatever purpose I had at the time.

    When it comes up with my friends, they don't get upset (as my brother has other issues) but they do almost visibly step back from themselves. It's a little hurtful, this non recognition of past offenses. Though I know they think this way because they love me.

    My brother doesn't want to think of himself as a person who might have harmed me. So I tell him, but chya did Blanche, ya did. And my friends, though some were absolutely protective of me growing up--one still enjoys bragging about that, so fun--and though they wouldn't have tried to hurt me particularly, they certainly did say many homophobic slurs with me there. Now, I wasn't out, I was a kid, like we all experience.

    But they don't like to think of themselves that way now. They like to think that had I come out to them at such an early age, that they'd have completely accepted me as they do today.

    So on the one hand it is really odd. On the other, it is really beautiful. These changes we've witnessed, are witnessing, have been incredible. I'm very proud to have lived through it. Hell, I'm just glad to have survived it.
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    May 10, 2015 10:17 PM GMT
    It`s certainly easier than when I was a teenager in the 1970s.
    Cruising was more dangerous and exciting then.
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    May 10, 2015 11:47 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidBut you all already know, it's a lot easier to be gay in certain parts of the US than others.


    True. Much more gay hate crimes per capita in the state of California and in New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC than in many of the places the RJ liberals hate, such as Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Montana...


    Give me a link, tehn we will discuss it.

    For example, how many gay hate crimes go unreported in hostile territories vs friendly ones?

    It's pointless to report a hate crime where there isn't any protection on the books.
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    May 10, 2015 11:50 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidBut you all already know, it's a lot easier to be gay in certain parts of the US than others.


    True. Much more gay hate crimes per capita in the state of California and in New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC than in many of the places the RJ liberals hate, such as Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Montana...

    Southbeach, you never cease to amaze me. You really are the Ann Coulter of RJ (blond hair and all...)
    Always crying about the liberals and having all your statistics ready. I've always visualized your voice to be all nasally and vapid like hers.
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    May 11, 2015 12:24 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said Much more gay hate crimes per capita in the state of California and in New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC than in many of the places the RJ liberals hate, such as Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Montana...


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/01/16/ranking-the-most-tolerant-and-least-tolerant-states.html

    The Daily Beast sought to examine which states are the most tolerant, devising a thorough point system that measures each state’s residents based on their actions and opinions, as well the scope of state laws guaranteeing equal rights and protections, which reflects the broader political will

    Specifically, for each state we considered the number of hate crimes according to the FBI, the extent of hate-crime statutes, the number of complaints of discrimination filed through the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, the extent of fair-housing and fair-workplace laws, the percentage of residents that support same-sex marriage, the extent of legal rights for same-sex couples, and the percentage of residents that are accepting of various religions. We measured the scope of hate crime statutes with help from the resources at the Anti-Defamation League, including the ADL’s catalogue of hate crime statutes by state. Each state was given a score out of 100 points. Ties were broken based on hate-crime statistics—if the total points matched, the state with fewer hate crimes in the last year ranked higher. So how does your state fare on the tolerance scale?

    (based on tolerance scores):

    1, Wisconsin
    2, Maryland
    3, Illinois
    4, Pennsylvania
    5, Hawaii
    6, California
    7, Minnesota
    8, New Jersey
    9, New Hampshire
    10, New Mexico
    11, Virginia
    12, Iowa
    13, North Carolina
    14, Connecticut
    15, Florida
    16, Louisiana
    17, New York
    18, Massachusetts
    19, West Virginia
    20, Nevada
    21, Montana
    22, Rhode Island
    23, Alaska
    24, Washington
    25, Vermont
    26, Oregon
    27, Maine
    28, Delaware
    29, Texas
    30, Michigan
    31, Colorado
    32, Georgia
    33, Indiana
    34, Tennessee
    35, Oklahoma
    36, South Carolina
    37, Missouri
    38, Mississippi
    39, South Dakota
    40, Alabama
    41, Kentucky
    42, North Dakota
    43, Arizona
    44, Utah
    45, Idaho
    46, Ohio
    47, Nebraska
    48, Kansas
    49, Arkansas
    50, Wyoming
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    May 11, 2015 2:48 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    theantijock said
    southbeach1500 said Much more gay hate crimes per capita in the state of California and in New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC than in many of the places the RJ liberals hate, such as Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Montana...


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/01/16/ranking-the-most-tolerant-and-least-tolerant-states.html

    The Daily Beast sought to examine which states are the most tolerant, devising a thorough point system that measures each state’s residents based on their actions and opinions, as well the scope of state laws guaranteeing equal rights and protections, which reflects the broader political will

    Specifically, for each state we considered the number of hate crimes according to the FBI, the extent of hate-crime statutes, the number of complaints of discrimination filed through the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, the extent of fair-housing and fair-workplace laws, the percentage of residents that support same-sex marriage, the extent of legal rights for same-sex couples, and the percentage of residents that are accepting of various religions. We measured the scope of hate crime statutes with help from the resources at the Anti-Defamation League, including the ADL’s catalogue of hate crime statutes by state. Each state was given a score out of 100 points. Ties were broken based on hate-crime statistics—if the total points matched, the state with fewer hate crimes in the last year ranked higher. So how does your state fare on the tolerance scale?



    Your statistics do not address gay hate crimes. But keep researching, I'm sure you'll come up with some, whoever you are, "hidden" person.


    That's not quite correct (see what I've here bolded of what you've quoted).

    In their tolerance numbers seem incorporated crime stats (and their methodology is laid open for your review) but I think the criticism that not all states prosecute crimes against gay people, particularly those without protections for gay people which likely would show them with less crime, as less crime is so defined, seemed less accurate a measure of what you seemed to be trying to say: whether a more conservative or more liberal area might wind up being safer and more accepting of gay people.

    Certainly, you'd agree, that a large part of that equation might be the population itself, no gay people = less crime against gay people. Yes? Also it seems to make sense that where there are more hate groups might be more hate crimes, which might tend to be the metro areas where more of everyone lives. We have those maps too that you can compare on your own time.

    But if you do want the per 100,000 numbers, then those are indeed included in the link I've provided, quite to the contrary of your complaint.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 11, 2015 3:39 AM GMT
    Being raised in Arkansas in the 70's 80's and 90's, it wouldn't be fair to me to make a differential statement about societal changes since I haven't lived there in over 10 years.

    However, going by how my family and their friends feel about gays, I'd be willing to bet that nothing has changed. After all, Mike Huckabee is a long-time family friend, and I won't even say hi to him at family reunions (nor do I attend them anymore).
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1034

    May 11, 2015 3:41 AM GMT
    Hmm, I thought this thread was about the differences in coming out today vs. 20, 30, or 40 years ago - not some idiotic, politically motivated argument about current hate crime statistics.

    The biggest difference I see is how people in the US are accepted by their own families. It used to be a source of shame to have a gay son - something parents hid at all cost.

    In the AIDS epidemic of the 80s I lost three friends who I'd known since childhood. In each case, their parents chose not to divulge the cause of death in their obituaries. Two of them claimed it was "cancer" - one even went so far as to say "brain cancer" (which I always took to be a cruel, mean-spirited joke). The third simply said "natural causes".

    The unwillingness of families to admit the true cause of death of their sons was a significant factor in delaying public awareness of the problem and government funding of AIDS research.

    So, how have things changed? Well, last summer my hometown of Akron, Ohio hosted the track events for the Gay Games. In Cleveland, the host city, they lit up the most prominent downtown building in rainbow colors for the duration of the Games, and pride flags were flying at many "str8" bars, restaurants, and businesses. Everywhere I went, people were friendly and welcoming when they found out I was there to compete. Granted, they were mostly interested in the revenue the Games brought in, but this would have been completely unheard of when I was growing up there.
  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    May 11, 2015 4:00 AM GMT
    You don't need to look very far back to get an idea. Go back to the year 2000 when California had Prop 22, which was similar to Prop 8. No major corporation would come out against Prop 22. The funding to fight it was tiny and there were almost no Vote no signs even printed. Some people did hand make their own signs but a lot of people still did not feel comfortable/safe openly asking people to vote no.

    There were many gay people that were fearful that if we fought for our rights that it would push society to the edge creating a backlash in pushing for things like a Constitutional Amendment to ban our rights, setting us further back. I always believed that we should push for what was right...that we deserve to have the same rights as everyone else. I went to the rally for no on prop 22 in West Hollywood (I still remember it raining on us) but I did not put a sign up in front of the home that I grew up in. A home that is in an extremely conservative area. When Prop 8 came around in 2008, I did put a sign up, I contributed financially to fight it in a way that I have never done in a political campaign before, I went to rallys, etc. With Prop 8, there were many corporations, politicians, media organizations asking people to vote no on 8. That is quite a change in 8 years. Until very recently, it seemed like for ever 2 steps forward we made, we had 1 step back. Sometimes it was one step forward and 2 steps back. It was a battle but I'm glad that most of us always had 'hope'. And no, we are not there yet....we have more battles to fight.
  • jeep334

    Posts: 410

    May 11, 2015 3:22 PM GMT
    On Saturday I was picking up flowers for Mother's Day. There were two guys ahead of me who I assumed were two different customers and not together. However, when the florist bought out a table arrangement to the first guy, the second guy stepped forward to look at it and then spoke with the first guy. Of course I was just standing there minding my own business (NOT - I was trying to figure out the whole situation). While they were talking, the florist brought out a second table arrangement which was identical to the first. Problem solved for me. I wanted so bad to speak with them somehow. So when the first guy placed the second arrangement in his cart, I spoke up and said what beautiful arrangements they were. He smiled and asked me if I like them too. As I nodded, he said they were for two very special mothers. How very nice.

    So what's changed in the last 30 years? Much more acceptance and the ability for others to not judge. Even in America it's still a struggle for others to accept the freedoms that are guaranteed. Actually the Supreme Court issue is a States Rights issue more than it's a same sex issue. It's a shame of sorts that the States have to be told how wrong and unfair they van be in some of their ways. It seems to have taken forever for people to understand life so I suppose we've come a long way in 30 years. There's still a long way to go. icon_cool.gif
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    May 11, 2015 7:08 PM GMT
    I came out in the Bicentennial Summer of '76, and doing so back then was definitely MUCH more difficult - in terms of both the process and its consequences - than it is now. I've always believed in the "Inevitability of 'Stonewall'": that it was just a matter of time and critical mass, given the post-WW2 Baby Boom, before gays made their presence felt and tolerated, if not fully accepted. That acceptance remains strongest among younger people, and it will only grow stronger as time passes, which is a good thing for all concerned.

    As far as "activism," goes [metta], I got my start in 1978 opposing, along with then Gov. Reagan, the Briggs Initiative, Prop 6, which would have banned gays from working in CA's public schools. Sure, I put signs in windows against it and subsequent discriminatory laws, went to rallies, and all that stuff, but I also sued the City of SF to extend the bystander recovery rule of tort law to gay couples in a case that was finally decided in 1987. Though I lost, the law was later amended to allow such recovery, in which I take a certain pride. I also sued the GOP of a CA county to reinstate two gay GOPers to its central committee after they'd been thrown off it by right-wingers, but lost that case on state action grounds. Still, it was worth the effort, because that case helped bring about the moderation of the CA GOP, with the result that earlier this year it granted a state charter to Log Cabin Republicans of CA, a group whose general counsel I was for several years, in addition to being president of its SF and SD chapters. Most of these things would have been unthinkable for me prior to 1976, and definitely played a role in my remaining "closeted" until then, but have been increasingly easier for younger people, however much they, or others, may or may not "judge" them to be.
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    May 11, 2015 7:17 PM GMT
    timmm55 said
    snapbacks saidAn older man I was hanging out with last night told me that being called "gay" or "homosexual" was like being called a pedophile today. icon_eek.gif

    he also mentioned there was a much larger cruising scene at parks and stuff like that. I asked him if he thought cruising at a park was kinda scary and awkward and he said "no it was exciting"


    There's a video on U-Tube circa 1960. They seemed to make a direct connection of homosexual>>pedophilia. There were remnants of that view even in the 70s. Enough so that I distanced myself from my nieces and nephews just because I didn't want to have any issues. Silly I know, I ended up being their favorite uncle anyway. lol

    As for cruise areas, Griffith Park was hot in the 80s! Besides being cruisy it was a party spot. One guy brought his disco van and another brought a keg. Then they closed it to cars ;-(
    In Mpls the Mississippi River flats, in SD Balboa Park. Now if you get caught in public it's a big $$$ and legal deal.


    "Enough so that I distanced myself from my nieces and nephews just because I didn't want to have any issues."

    Yep !!!! Did the same. I was fully out starting in 1970 so just to protect myself.
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    May 11, 2015 7:22 PM GMT
    Lincsbear saidIt`s certainly easier than when I was a teenager in the 1970s.
    Cruising was more dangerous and exciting then.


    More exciting and bunch more action.
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    May 11, 2015 7:23 PM GMT
    TheGuyNextDoor said
    southbeach1500 said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidBut you all already know, it's a lot easier to be gay in certain parts of the US than others.


    True. Much more gay hate crimes per capita in the state of California and in New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC than in many of the places the RJ liberals hate, such as Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Montana...

    Southbeach, you never cease to amaze me. You really are the Ann Coulter of RJ (blond hair and all...)
    Always crying about the liberals and having all your statistics ready. I've always visualized your voice to be all nasally and vapid like hers.


    I bet he has a yeast infection in his vagina too.
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    May 11, 2015 7:25 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    southbeach1500 said Much more gay hate crimes per capita in the state of California and in New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC than in many of the places the RJ liberals hate, such as Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Montana...


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/01/16/ranking-the-most-tolerant-and-least-tolerant-states.html

    The Daily Beast sought to examine which states are the most tolerant, devising a thorough point system that measures each state’s residents based on their actions and opinions, as well the scope of state laws guaranteeing equal rights and protections, which reflects the broader political will

    Specifically, for each state we considered the number of hate crimes according to the FBI, the extent of hate-crime statutes, the number of complaints of discrimination filed through the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, the extent of fair-housing and fair-workplace laws, the percentage of residents that support same-sex marriage, the extent of legal rights for same-sex couples, and the percentage of residents that are accepting of various religions. We measured the scope of hate crime statutes with help from the resources at the Anti-Defamation League, including the ADL’s catalogue of hate crime statutes by state. Each state was given a score out of 100 points. Ties were broken based on hate-crime statistics—if the total points matched, the state with fewer hate crimes in the last year ranked higher. So how does your state fare on the tolerance scale?

    (based on tolerance scores):

    1, Wisconsin
    2, Maryland
    3, Illinois
    4, Pennsylvania
    5, Hawaii
    6, California
    7, Minnesota
    8, New Jersey
    9, New Hampshire
    10, New Mexico
    11, Virginia
    12, Iowa
    13, North Carolina
    14, Connecticut
    15, Florida
    16, Louisiana
    17, New York
    18, Massachusetts
    19, West Virginia
    20, Nevada
    21, Montana
    22, Rhode Island
    23, Alaska
    24, Washington
    25, Vermont
    26, Oregon
    27, Maine
    28, Delaware
    29, Texas
    30, Michigan
    31, Colorado
    32, Georgia
    33, Indiana
    34, Tennessee
    35, Oklahoma
    36, South Carolina
    37, Missouri
    38, Mississippi
    39, South Dakota
    40, Alabama
    41, Kentucky
    42, North Dakota
    43, Arizona
    44, Utah
    45, Idaho
    46, Ohio
    47, Nebraska
    48, Kansas
    49, Arkansas
    50, Wyoming


    No way in re: Ohio. We had a gay old blast around here ... even way back when.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    May 11, 2015 9:21 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidBut you all already know, it's a lot easier to be gay in certain parts of the US than others.


    True. Much more gay hate crimes per capita in the state of California and in New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC than in many of the places the RJ liberals hate, such as Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Montana...


    (1). More progressive places have more reporting.
    (2). More progressive places have more 'out' gays, and therefore more targets. It's commendation to Mississippi that there are only 2 gay people daring enough to come 'out'.


    Guess what, there are more hate crimes against LGBT persons in the USA than in Saudi Arabia, UAE and Iran. I wonder why? NOT. That some places are so bass-ackwards that 'gay' isn't a thin there yet is no reason to toot their horn for a (falsely) low per capita statistic. You'd fail statistics, that's for sure.
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    May 11, 2015 10:03 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Lincsbear saidIt`s certainly easier than when I was a teenager in the 1970s.
    Cruising was more dangerous and exciting then.
    More exciting and bunch more action.

    I never felt any danger back then.

    I recently saw an article that said that people born between sometime in the 1940s and the late 1950s (baby boomers I suppose) had had sex with 7-10 people. It took me a few moments to realize that they were talking about 7-10 people during their lifetime. For fear of shocking the younger guys I won't even say what time period passed (on a very regular basis) by the time I'd had sex with 7-10 guys.

    A similar story was a guy I was seeing who was in the Navy (we both were), well before don't ask don't tell. He was good friends with a woman coworker. They were talking about sex and she asked how many guys he'd had sex with and he said "you first" and she said 3. He then said that his number was more like 300 and she was shocked. He and I both laughed when he told this story.