Is Obamacare a success or not???

  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 13, 2015 11:31 AM GMT
    This is not a topic for the left to fight with the right.
    I'd like your honest opinions. As I will be moving to NY
    permanently in the fall, this concerns me because I'm not that familiar with how the healthcare system works in the US even though I've been the States so many times.
    Here in Greece the free healthcare system works-it's worked for years. Does it beat having private healthcare insurance?? Hell no. But it works. Here's an example.
    In 2005 I was walking down a dark street and a branch from a tree cut me above my eyebrow. It was a deep wound and I needed 6 stitches. You make a call to see which public hospital is open and you simply show up. It takes about 10 minutes for you to sign in and then you simply wait for a bit untill one of the doctors is free. Usually it's a madhouse tho lots of injured people walking around and moaning. But in about 30 minutes I was stitched up and good to go voila! If I had used my private insurance I would have gone to the specific clinic which is more fancy
    but that doesn't mean that the doctor there would be more capable. Here in Greece what I hate about free public healthcare is that when you need an operation you are expected to give e the doctor a "donation" under the table in an envelope. The doctor always mentions it at first in a casual way. They never say no..it's just expected because an operation is considered serious. That isn't free exactly tho is it? When a payment delay in my private insurance caused my insurance company to not cover my circumcision procedure In 2009,I had no choice but to use the public healthcare that I'm provided. I was angry at my insurance company tho. When the doctor casually told me that I could make a "donation" I ignored him. What I didn't know was that when the day came for my circumcision the doctor was insulted by the fact I hadn't given him any money and the staff that day basically ignored me and wouldn't even look at me. Worse still, I wasn't given any pain killers or even advice on what to do when I went home. After that the doctor basically didn't want anything to do with me. But I did have my operation and it was free but it wasn't a nice experience.
    Now about Obamacare..I hear many people say that it sure as hell ain't free. In fact I hear people complain about how expensive it is. Other praise Obama saying that he finally gave everybody free healthcare.. something that should have been done many years ago.
    So is Obamacare a success or not??
    Is it free healthcare for everybody??
    Is it legal to not be signed up for Obamacare and have another kind of insurance plan?
    The name Obamacare means that Obama Cares.
    Do you agree??
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    May 13, 2015 3:27 PM GMT
    venue35 said... The name Obamacare means that Obama Cares.
    Do you agree??

    dude; no one "cares", this is America.

    realjock has issues with multiple sock accounts and endless debate on conservative social and political issues. Try reddit.com for bro information on the obamacare.

    welcome NYC; i hope it meets exceeds your goals & aspirations.
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    May 13, 2015 4:24 PM GMT
    It for sure have helped thousands of people who weren't able to get health insurance because of lack of money or pre-existing conditions ..
    Now that said , it didn't help the ones who already had health insurance , but in one way , Obama wanted everyone to have a way to get cares when needed , that purpose has been attained , so YES Obamacare is a success ..

    But open your eyes , America has one of the worst Health care system when it comes to money (but one of the best when it comes to care ), my employer is paying half of my health insurance , and i still am paying 198 a month with a $3500 deductible !! ..aarrghhhh...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 13, 2015 4:37 PM GMT
    Venue, you would be wise to research how it works in New York State (operates differently in many different states). There are undoubtedly New York-specific websites dealing with the "Affordable Care Act." There are issues: as how soon it takes effect after you apply; at what time of year one can apply; and how long you can wait after losing or first-needing insurance before one must apply.

    Is it a success? Depends on who is asking. For people who were previously uninsurable (had an illness or prior injury), it is great. It is great for the insurance companies, who are making much larger profits since it was adopted, because it requires people to buy insurance. For people whose employer provided good health care insurance, it has no effect - they will not see any difference. For people who buy individual insurance (whose employers do not provide insurance) it has caused insurance costs to increase greatly.

    For low income workers, it has generally been an improvement, since their insurance costs are subsidized. However, the plans they get usually aren't as good, and require them to pay very large deductibles before they are covered.

    For the poor who were on "medicaid" (free health care paid for by the government) there is little change.

    And no, Obama doesn't "care" - The ACA does not provide health care, like in european countries - Obama carefully crafted a law that would not provide universal health care - it only requires people to buy health insurance, which is why the insurance companies love it. And the individual states (not the federal government) are still on the hook for providing necessary hospitalization for people who ignore the law and don't buy insurance, and for illegal aliens. So states like New York and California, that have a lot of illegal aliens, still have to pay for their hospitalizations without any reimbursement from the federal government (as it would pay for poor legal residents).
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 13, 2015 9:45 PM GMT
    pellaz said
    venue35 said... The name Obamacare means that Obama Cares.
    Do you agree??

    dude; no one "cares", this is America.

    realjock has issues with multiple sock accounts and endless debate on conservative social and political issues. Try reddit.com for bro information on the obamacare.

    welcome NYC; i hope it meets exceeds your goals & aspirations.
    you are not the spokesperson for those who care or who don't care. Don't tell me what I should post or where I should post my messages.
    Thanks and goodbye
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 13, 2015 9:51 PM GMT
    You let a doctor with an ax to grind do a circumcision on you? You're a braver man than me.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 13, 2015 9:53 PM GMT
    HikerSkier saidVenue, you would be wise to research how it works in New York State (operates differently in many different states). There are undoubtedly New York-specific websites dealing with the "Affordable Care Act." There are issues: as how soon it takes effect after you apply; at what time of year one can apply; and how long you can wait after losing or first-needing insurance before one must apply.

    Is it a success? Depends on who is asking. For people who were previously uninsurable (had an illness or prior injury), it is great. It is great for the insurance companies, who are making much larger profits since it was adopted, because it requires people to buy insurance. For people whose employer provided good health care insurance, it has no effect - they will not see any difference. For people who buy individual insurance (whose employers do not provide insurance) it has caused insurance costs to increase greatly.

    For low income workers, it has generally been an improvement, since their insurance costs are subsidized. However, the plans they get usually aren't as good, and require them to pay very large deductibles before they are covered.

    For the poor who were on "medicaid" (free health care paid for by the government) there is little change.

    And no, Obama doesn't "care" - The ACA does not provide health care, like in european countries - Obama carefully crafted a law that would not provide universal health care - it only requires people to buy health insurance, which is why the insurance companies love it. And the individual states (not the federal government) are still on the hook for providing necessary hospitalization for people who ignore the law and don't buy insurance, and for illegal aliens. So states like New York and California, that have a lot of illegal aliens, still have to pay for their hospitalizations without any reimbursement from the federal government (as it would pay for poor legal residents).
    Thanks for explaining obamacare for to me in such detail. I appreciate it.
    I'm really disappointed after reading this. It sounds like one is just blackmailed into buying obamacare.
    For fucks sake my country is on the verge of bankruptcy and we have free healthcare (with a few quirks) and America which is the "super power" of the world can't give it's people free healthcare???? It's obvious that the insurance companies have a lot more power than people are aware of! I'm concerned because a friend of mine here on these very forums almost lost his business because of obamacare.He has to pay insurance for each employee and it's incredibly expensive! What happens if you are injured and you have no insurance and you go to the hospital??
    Are you turned away??
    Or do you pay a high fee??
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    May 13, 2015 9:54 PM GMT
    venue35 said
    pellaz said
    venue35 said... The name Obamacare means that Obama Cares.
    Do you agree??

    you are not the spokesperson for those who care or who don't care. Don't tell me what I should post or where I should post my messages.
    Thanks and goodbye




    DUDE: you need to re read your own posts
    You certainty did ask and i told you "no one cares"
    if you dont like how we do things here go back to your broke ass home.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 13, 2015 9:58 PM GMT
    No asshole you spoke for everybody.
    Don't ever speak to me again fuckface.
    I have lived in the States for many years so don't tell me where I should go "back to".
    As long as I have an american passport I can go a anywhere in the states. For your age to act so juvenile..ha you are an ugly walking joke .
    Kiss my ass bitch!
    Hikerskier explained to me in a civilized manner all about obamacare so either you are a total moron or butthurt that
    it's not so great after all.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 13, 2015 10:07 PM GMT
    Yes I am and we will meet up too!

    I'm simply trying to understand how the healthcare system works in the States because I will obviously need healthcare at one point or another.
    I don't need some paranoid old hag attacking me for merely "suggesting" that obamacare might not be the best thing since sliced bread.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 13, 2015 10:16 PM GMT
    I'm moving to Brooklyn I'm really excited.
    I cannot express myself in a country so disorganized.
    I love Greece it's beautiful and has so much going for it but I feel people here do not care for their country.
    Also the fact that there are elections almost every year ..says a lot. I just don't feel that a human being with talent and potential can go far here.
    It's a country run by mediocre people with ambition.
    I believe that in the States you can do whatever you want to in life if you believe in yourself.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 13, 2015 10:23 PM GMT
    I'll let you know in a private message. My friends in NYC are kind of scattered..some live in queens some in chelsea but my best friend lives in Chinatown.
    I don't think they are making Brooklyn more like Manhattan there were always more fancy areas there than other areas. Don't forget that Brooklyn is huge.
    I will never live in a dangerous run down part of Brooklyn again though I won't go thru that Just don't have the patience for crazy ass situations and people like I used to.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 13, 2015 10:28 PM GMT
    Anyway people don't want to discuss obamacare because it's probably a pain in the ass so I will let this thread die
    I wanted to see what the differences were with the healthcare system here in Greece.
    I foolishly thought that Obamacare was free healthcare for everyone.
    Not only was I wrong I was insulted by a queer zombie straight out of the walking dead!
    So I won't talk about it again.
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    May 13, 2015 11:42 PM GMT
    venue35 said
    HikerSkier said
    I'm concerned because a friend of mine here on these very forums almost lost his business because of obamacare.He has to pay insurance for each employee and it's incredibly expensive! What happens if you are injured and you have no insurance and you go to the hospital??
    Are you turned away??
    Or do you pay a high fee??

    Generally speaking, no one is turned away from a hospital if treatment is needed (Federal law makes that illegal, but some hospitals turn away patients anyway, and refer them to "public" hospitals.) Certainly in an injury situation (e.g., an auto accident), or in an emergency situation (stroke or heart attack) no one would be turned away.

    However, if one did not have insurance, and did not qualify for (essentially free) medical care because of being poor, the hospital would bill the person - usually at a rate that is 2 to 3 times the rate that they would bill insurance companies for the same treatment. It is not unusual for emergency room treatment for a serious injury to an uninsured person for a hospital to bill out at $20,000 to $40,000. If unpaid, it is referred to a collection agency, and eventually becomes a legal judgment against the uninsured person. Also, in many localities, the city-provided ambulance is not "free", and a city may also bill a couple $thousand for an ambulance ride.

    So, unless you are really poor, you just about have to have insurance in the US.



  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 14, 2015 12:12 AM GMT
    Thanks hikerskier I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to discuss this subject in a civilized manner with me. I will reply to the personal messages you sent but I won't post on this topic again.
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    May 14, 2015 12:18 AM GMT
    We have nothing like the UK's NHS here. All our medical providers work for private entities (whether for-profit or non-profit). The ACA, which some call Obamacare, is really a mandate to extend insurance coverage to everyone, at varying rates of cost. The premiums are based on factors like age, health, geography, and what your plan does and doesn't include. Comprehensive plans that include eyesight and dental are more expensive; plans with low or zero deductibles even more so. It varies by state, by insurer, and by plan. That's why we have these "exchanges" ---virtual online marketplaces where the insurers offer various plans and you can sign up for any one of them that you want and can afford. However, you can't do it at any old time. There are 3-month periods each year called "open enrollment" periods and new plans can only be activated during them.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 14, 2015 12:21 AM GMT
    Thanks sharkspeare it's a lot more complicated than I thought. I guess the plan was according to each person's income a suitable insurance plan would be given accordingly. What was wrong with the old insurance system?
    Is there a specific group that will benefit from the new system?
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    May 14, 2015 12:33 AM GMT
    There were many things wrong with the previous system.
    1) No one was required to sell you insurance. If you had a "pre-existing condition", for example, insurance rates would be astronomically high or you would simply be denied. These "conditions" could be anything the insurers say. Women often had pregnancies cited as pre-existing. I had insurance denied privately once years ago because I took a sleep lab analysis (which turned out totally negative, but it didn't matter---I took one). Obamacare made "pre-existing conditions" illegal.
    2) Lifetime caps. It was a common practice for plans to max your coverage out at a pre-determined dollar level. No big deal for people without catastrophic illnesses, but some people with, for example, radical cancer treatments, were often told halfway through that the insurance was done paying and they were now on their own. Obamacare made these illegal.
    3) Recission. Insurers would cancel policies once you ever made a claim on them, sometimes even refusing to pay the claim, usually offering to give back your premium. Obamacare made this illegal.

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    May 15, 2015 2:37 PM GMT
    neffa saidIt for sure have helped thousands of people who weren't able to get health insurance because of lack of money or pre-existing conditions ..
    Now that said , it didn't help the ones who already had health insurance , but in one way , Obama wanted everyone to have a way to get cares when needed , that purpose has been attained , so YES Obamacare is a success ..

    But open your eyes , America has one of the worst Health care system when it comes to money (but one of the best when it comes to care ), my employer is paying half of my health insurance , and i still am paying 198 a month with a $3500 deductible !! ..aarrghhhh...




    It discrimates terribly against self employed, middle class, single, old men like myself. $750 a month and $6000 deductible is just not affordable, considering $9,000 a year buys one doctor visit. It just a welfare program for Insurance companies.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    May 15, 2015 5:26 PM GMT
    HikerSkier said For low income workers, it has generally been an improvement, since their insurance costs are subsidized. However, the plans they get usually aren't as good, and require them to pay very large deductibles before they are covered.

    For the poor who were on "medicaid" (free health care paid for by the government) there is little change.
    [quote][cite]Alpha13 said[/cite] It discrimates terribly against self employed, middle class, single, old men like myself. $750 a month and $6000 deductible is just not affordable, considering $9,000 a year buys one doctor visit. It just a welfare program for Insurance companies.


    ^^^^ These things are true but only part of the complex story.

    The first thing is anyone pronouncing Obamacare a success at this early point in time is either tremendously myopic or only repeating partisan mantra. It will be at least ten years before success should even be discussed.

    There are ways to get a general idea of what to expect from Obamacare in the long range. Prospective job seekers are scrutinized by not only their apparent qualifications, they are judged on their employment history, both personal and professional references, as well as background checks for arrest records, civil suits, and credit ratings.

    Applying this same scrutiny to the federal government's involvement with all past programs they've instituted, we can get a clearer picture of what to expect from Obamacare.

    1. It will cost more than initially projected and most likely far more. This is true of everything that the federal government has done. In the case of Obamacare this has already materialized. In the beginning Obama himself promoted ACA to the public and Congress at cost around $900 billion over 10 years. In 2013 the Congressional Budget Office estimated the 10 year cost at $1.8 TRILLION. The Senate Budget Committee estimated the cost at $2.6 TRILLION. It's worth noting that both of these estimates were done before Obamacare was even initiated and are only estimates based on abstractions.

    2. Bureaucracies of the government will inevitably decompose to become riddled with corruption, abuse and institutionalized malfeasance as well as negligence of the focus of the program's aim. Looking first at how the US government has administered health care for US veterans we get a troubling picture of endless scandals, outrageous "bonuses" for high ranking bureaucrats, abuse and neglect of the needs of individual veterans, financial irresponsibility and unbelievably long waits and scandalous coverups for physician and Veterans Administration employee incompetence and malfeasance. None of this is an exaggeration. You need only do a search for Veterans Administration scandals to know this for yourself. As another example of bureaucratic abuses, the IRS that is responsible for collecting taxes diverted $60 million from programs to help taxpayers to file their returns to paying for their own bonuses and "union activities."... and some of the bonuses went to IRS employees who had not paid their own taxes! Not only that, they've been found to have used IRS credit cards to pay for personal expenses! Recently a Veterans Administration employee who on a salary three levels above her job description's pay scale received $120,000 to move 140 miles plus $40,000 in bonuses even though NONE of her goals to provide faster service to veterans had been accomplished.

    THESE are the types of things that will inevitably happen with Obamacare's bureaucracy.

    3. The deceptive manner in which Obamacare was passed it automatically made it suspect and the American public has learned their suspicions were warranted. Obama told the American publis the ACA bill would be published on the internet so everyone could read it before it was voted on. He lied. Then speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi told the House they had to vote on the bill before they read it, REP. NANCY PELOSI: But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy. It was passed through the House and Senate without a single Republican vote. Jonathan Gruber who was a consultant in the writing of Obamacare has bragged innumerable times on video about his part in making the bill intentionally misleading and referring to US voters as stupid.

    Next, still on the subject of ACA, we have what Presidential candidate Obama said in a 2008 interview with Ebony Magazine when asked if he would support reparations to black Americans for slavery which ended 150 years ago. From Huffington Post:

    ‚ĚĚPressed for his position on apologizing to blacks or offering reparations, Obama said he was more interested in taking action to help people struggling to get by.
    "If we have a program, for example, of universal health care, that will disproportionately affect people of color, because they're disproportionately uninsured," Obama said. "If we've got an agenda that says every child in America should get _ should be able to go to college, regardless of income, that will disproportionately affect people of color, because it's oftentimes our children who can't afford to go to college."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/02/obama-opposes-slavery-rep_n_116506.html

    4. The deception of the involvement of the Internal Revenue Service being involved in the administration of the Affordable Care Act. They were included in the MASSIVE obscenely wasteful American Recovert and Reinvestment Act passed a year before the Affordable Care Act. In other words... They were trying to hide the IRS connection to Healthcare.

    Based on these things alone there's enough deception and underestimation to make anyone skeptical about Obamacare. Add to this the fact that never in the history of the federal bureaucracy has there been any program that has not cost far more than originally predicted or that has been efficiently administrated without abuses and corruption.

    And I haven't even begun addressing the negative effects of Obamacare on the economy, businesses, employers or employees.

  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    May 15, 2015 5:45 PM GMT
    Ignore Bob3. He's crazy. Obamacare is simply a way to get healthcare to people who's employer doesn't provide it for his employees. It required companies above a certain size to provide healthcare. It made the insurance companies stop discriminating against anyone who had anything wrong before they had to buy a private policy (pre-existing). It subsidized the premiums for people who couldn't afford insurance. It made everyone get insurance or pay a fine because the law requires hospitals to treat sick people who show up uninsured. And it expanded government coverage for the truly poor. 95% of the system is just like it always was, private. Insurance coverage here is expensive because there are essentially no controls on profits anywhere but the larger presence of Obamacare is slowing down the rate of increase. At your age, you should expect to pay probably $400/month if you have to buy a private policy, if your employer doesn't provide it as a benefit. And the coverage is good.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 15, 2015 5:57 PM GMT
    400 dollars a month still seems expensive to me.
    I can see why many employers are mad that they now have to pay for their employees insurance instead of the other way around. And you can't stay uninsured now? It's illegal?
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    May 15, 2015 6:20 PM GMT
    venue35 said400 dollars a month still seems expensive to me.
    I can see why many employers are mad that they now have to pay for their employees insurance instead of the other way around. And you can't stay uninsured now? It's illegal?


    Venue, When you do get to the US and apply for healthcare I suggest you get hard copies of all information and find someone other than ACA or insurance employees who has experience with all this and get advice and information before you take any policy. KNOW what you're getting into before you sign up or pay for anything. I'd have estimated for your age you'll end up paying over $600/month and still be "subsidized" which really means the IRS will confiscate any tax refunds you have at the end of the year to pay for the so called 'subsidy'.


    ........ Here's a great example of the way some of the liberals in here are. Notice Destinharbor did not dispute ONE THING in my previous post and started it with the same words he's started the last 20 that he's directed towards me. Nothing but a lowly skunk cunt tactic to attempting to discredit the messenger to discredit the words. Just another lame attempt to obscure the truth by people who can;t deal with it.
    Destinharbor saidIgnore Bob3. He's crazy. Obamacare is simply a way to get healthcare to people who's employer doesn't provide it for his employees. It required companies above a certain size to provide healthcare. It made the insurance companies stop discriminating against anyone who had anything wrong before they had to buy a private policy (pre-existing). It subsidized the premiums for people who couldn't afford insurance. It made everyone get insurance or pay a fine because the law requires hospitals to treat sick people who show up uninsured. And it expanded government coverage for the truly poor. 95% of the system is just like it always was, private. Insurance coverage here is expensive because there are essentially no controls on profits anywhere but the larger presence of Obamacare is slowing down the rate of increase. At your age, you should expect to pay probably $400/month if you have to buy a private policy, if your employer doesn't provide it as a benefit. And the coverage is good.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    May 15, 2015 6:28 PM GMT
    venue35 said400 dollars a month still seems expensive to me.
    I can see why many employers are mad that they now have to pay for their employees insurance instead of the other way around. And you can't stay uninsured now? It's illegal?

    Ya, that's right. But why would you want to? The total healthcare system in the US cost about 70% more per person than anywhere else in the world because of the inefficiencies in the system. That's half the reason why we had to do something to change, the other half being the truly embarrassing lack of coverage for all. US companies finally realized we're uncompetitive in the international market because of it. So ya, it's expensive. It's coming down some now because of Obamacare but we have a long way to go. Trust me, you do not want to find yourself in the NY area needing care without insurance.

    (Ingore Bob3^^^. He's crazy.)
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    May 15, 2015 6:50 PM GMT
    Ok you guys can leave the name calling out of this as of now. Both of you have pointed out some good and bad things about obamacare.At least we can all agree that it isn't perfect. Destin I didn't say I want to be uninsured I was just curious if insurance coverage was mandatory under obama care.