Debate about Man-Made and Defeated Gods vs Gods Still Standing

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 16, 2015 5:20 PM GMT
    A Lawyer

    As a lawyer, I make legal analogies. I agree with you that hell is “cruel and unusual punishment,” but I worry more about ambiguity. I could believe in an angry God, but not an incoherent God. Under the U.S. Constitution, a law is “void for vagueness” if it does not (1) give actual notice of its meaning and (2) provide sufficiently definite guidelines to prevent arbitrary enforcement.

    Fundamentalists talk about God’s plan of salvation, but the devil is in the details. The Bible has no clear guidance on whether babies go to hell (Google “salvation of infants”). If babies do not go to hell, exactly how does God draw the line when a baby is raised in a Muslim family? Does God cut him any slack for honoring his father and mother? I can think of the following gray areas.

    justification by works or faith
    Gentile/Jew
    before Christ/after Christ
    Infant/adult
    baptized/unbaptized
    competent/mentally impaired
    evangelized/un-evangelized
    one saved, always saved/apostates damned

    What about a Jewish preteen who believed after hearing Jesus speak the Sermon on the Mount, lost faith after the crucifixion and died before the resurrection? What about Kunta Kinte? Does he go to hell for refusing to believe in the white master’s God?

    If, during your fundamentalist days, I had asked you for a clear plan of salvation that covers all these issues, what would you have told me?

    Bart Ehrman

    I would have said that there are lots of cases that I don’t know about, but some that I do — including modern skeptics who reject the gospel message! They are condemned. (!)

    Stephenoabc

    Globally, there is more than the God of Moses and Israel despite the attempts to make a claim that the God of Moses/Israel is the greatest notion of God. The God of Moses/Israel/Temple Judaism was defeated. We are obligated to consider the immediate greater God/s, Jupiter for one, the God/s of Emperor Vespasian and Emperor Titus, both generals that brought down Galilee, Jerusalem, the Temple, its Holy of Holies for the God of Moses/Israel and Jesus who, according to tradition, called the Temple of Temple Judaism, his father's house of prayer, his God who he thought he knew so well that that notion was his Father.

    The Planet Jupiter was the God of the Romans at that time. We ask if the God of Moses/Israel/Jesus is still acting in world affairs. We must also ask if Jupiter is still acting in world affairs. The answer is yes. All you have to do is read

    Cosmos and Psyche by Richard Tarnas

    and you come across gods not made by man. Sure, people can keep the god of a people alive (God of Moses/Israel); but, Jupiter was made by the Sun and the Sun was made by a nebula within the galaxy--all not made by a species which by a long shot was not the first species on Earth, also, a planet not made by this late-coming species, Homo sapiens sapiens.

    Free yourself to move forward in truth.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 17, 2015 4:57 AM GMT
    Lawyer

    Fundamentalists talk about God’s plan of salvation, but the devil is in the details. The Bible has no clear guidance on whether babies go to hell (Google “salvation of infants”). If babies do not go to hell, exactly how does God draw the line when a baby is raised in a Muslim family?

    Stephenoabc

    The God of Israel, Moses, and Jesus is somebody's Heavenly Father, even if not the Heavenly Father of those outside the Children of Abraham (Jews, Christians, and Muslims).

    Muslims (with their 99 Names of Allah) and Christians recognize God as Compassionate, God as Merciful. The Grace of God is coupled with the details of salvation that you see lacking.