Gay Equality - Jeb Bush Says He's Against It - And Supports Laws That Would Treat Gay Americans As Second Class Citizens

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    May 20, 2015 6:52 PM GMT
    http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/05/17/jeb-bush-takes-tougher-stance-against-same-sex-marriage/?_r=0

    New comments made by Repub presidential nominee Jeb Bush, reveal that Bush would be a stridently anti-gay president.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    May 20, 2015 10:01 PM GMT
    Thank heavens the GOP gives people like Jeb a place to go and feel wanted.
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    May 20, 2015 10:13 PM GMT
    Don't worry. If he cheats the votes and gets elected like his bro did, he'll get assassinated before he ever takes office.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    May 20, 2015 10:13 PM GMT
    I just read that 60% of Americans are in favor of gay marriage.

    So, Bush and the other Republicans are clearly out of step.

    Good.

    It'll make it easier for the Democrats to win.
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    May 20, 2015 11:10 PM GMT
    Webster666 saidI just read that 60% of Americans are in favor of gay marriage.

    So, Bush and the other Republicans are clearly out of step.

    Good.

    It'll make it easier for the Democrats to win.

    No, what really matters in today's US elections is money, and Bush would have the lion's share. Once those Hillary attack ads start running Bush will surge in the polls while Hillary sinks. US voters are extremely unsophisticated and easily deceived, you can buy your way into almost any office.
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    May 20, 2015 11:18 PM GMT
    MotelWrestler said
    It sounds like to me that his idea of a tolerant America is to protect intolerance. Who knows what he really thinks?

    He doesn't think - he calculates. Just like most Republican politicians, and some Democrats, who lack core values. Bush loses the essential Republican conservative base if he doesn't oppose gay rights, without which he can't win in the Republican primaries.

    His potential Republican primary opponents have all declared themselves to be rabid homophobes, so they force his hand. And maybe it doesn't take too much forcing. His core values may be as weak & plastic as any other Republican, but I have a sense that on gay rights he's no friend of ours.
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    May 21, 2015 1:22 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    MotelWrestler said
    It sounds like to me that his idea of a tolerant America is to protect intolerance. Who knows what he really thinks?

    He doesn't think - he calculates. Just like most Republican politicians, and some Democrats, who lack core values. Bush loses the essential Republican conservative base if he doesn't oppose gay rights, without which he can't win in the Republican primaries.

    His potential Republican primary opponents have all declared themselves to be rabid homophobes, so they force his hand. And maybe it doesn't take too much forcing. His core values may be as weak & plastic as any other Republican, but I have a sense on gay rights he's no friend of ours.


    A very dangerous position, that the Democrats who calculate are the ones who lack core values. I want to think I know what you mean, but this pattern of thinking has IMNSHO led to some landslide Democratic losses against the GOP.

    Don't need a response, as I don't expect you or anyone else here to care (edit: to care what I think; didn't mean that to sound so bitter), but we *are* going into a major election with major consequences. Sometimes a calculation or two doesn't hurt.

    EDIT: I know how little weight my word carries, so I posted some links in another thread to what I thought was a very helpful analysis of some Democratic Party assumptions and strategies leading up to November 2014. There are actually real people out there who are beginning to subscribe to this view; I'm not the only one.
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    May 21, 2015 1:52 AM GMT
    anotherphil said
    Don't need a response, as I don't expect you or anyone else here to care, but we *are* going into a major election with major consequences. Sometimes a calculation or two doesn't hurt.

    You're correct. I won't respond any further to you, since you were so gracious & polite.
  • jeepguySD

    Posts: 651

    May 21, 2015 1:33 PM GMT
    [Bush] added: “Thousands of years of culture and history is just being changed at warp speed. It’s hard to fathom why it is this way.”

    He also warned that the country’s future would be at risk without traditional marriages between a man and a woman who go on to raise children.

    “To imagine how we are going to succeed in our country unless we have committed family life, committed child-centered family system, is hard to imagine,” Mr. Bush said. “We need to be stalwart supporters of traditional marriage.”


    Okay, marriage thousands of years ago, or even hundreds of years ago, does not resemble the modern concept of marriage at all.

    The comments about children make me think of this:

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    May 21, 2015 1:43 PM GMT
    jeepguySD said[Bush] added: “Thousands of years of culture and history is just being changed at warp speed. It’s hard to fathom why it is this way.”

    I suppose like thousands of years of slavery were also changed at warp speed in the 1800s. And female repression was largely (though not fully) reversed in the industrialized nations a few decades later.

    Gee, and the Bible supports both those ugly and time-honored propositions, just like it does opposition to gays. JEB Bush: one of the leading minds of the 13th Century.
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    May 21, 2015 4:02 PM GMT
    article:
    Bush, a likely Republican candidate for president in 2016, was asked in a brief interview if he believed there should be a constitutional right to same-sex marriage.

    I don’t, but I’m not a lawyer, and clearly this has been accelerated at a warp pace,” he said. “What’s interesting is four years ago, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton had the same view that I just expressed to you.”


    Really? Did either Barack or Hillary ever say there's no constitutional right to marriage for same-sex couples?

    Or was it that even before endorsing marriage for same-sex couples, Obama noted a "strong basis" for finding such constitutional rights?

    Did H. Clinton ever say ever say there was no strong basis for finding constitutional rights or did she support civil unions before supporting marriage outright?

    Feel free to correct that if I got that wrong as I never followed it that closely. But it looks to me like Jeb is not just a scumbag, but also he is a liar.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    May 21, 2015 5:27 PM GMT
    A very dangerous position, that the Democrats who calculate are the ones who lack core values. I want to think I know what you mean, but this pattern of thinking has IMNSHO led to some landslide Democratic losses against the GOP.

    Agree. Democrats need to be clear and outspoken in their values to give a real alternative to GOP positions. This is why I welcome Bernie Sanders into the ring: he's going to say things and ask questions that (I hope) will force the debate into real answers to real questions, rather than the usual vacuous blather and vague self-contradiction that passes for political speah. This might even wake up some of the electorate.
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    May 21, 2015 7:26 PM GMT
    How much money has Jeb taken from countries who execute and imprison gays?

    clinton_tour6_605_605.jpg
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    May 21, 2015 8:00 PM GMT
    Webster666 saidI just read that 60% of Americans are in favor of gay marriage.

    So, Bush and the other Republicans are clearly out of step.

    Good.

    It'll make it easier for the Democrats to win.





    I was expecting the Repubs to start to bend to public opinion on gay equality in order to try to help themselves appeal to the majority of the country on this issue - but the bitterly anti-gay rhetoric and policy positions we're hearing from all the Repubs running for president have made it clear that the Repub party is not going to embrace equal rights for gay Americans in the 2016 election.

    They clearly do want our country to treat gay Americans as second class citizens and aren't willing to drop their hate-based bias yet.
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    May 21, 2015 8:35 PM GMT
    mx5guynj saidHow much money has Jeb taken from countries who execute and imprison gays?

    clinton_tour6_605_605.jpg






    OK, I'll bite. How much money has he PAID to countries who execute and imprison gays. Shouldn't that be the verb that causes more outrage?

    Your point is defeated by math.
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    May 21, 2015 9:27 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    mx5guynj saidHow much money has Jeb taken from countries who execute and imprison gays?

    clinton_tour6_605_605.jpg


    OK, I'll bite. How much money has he PAID to countries who execute and imprison gays. Shouldn't that be the verb that causes more outrage?

    Your point is defeated by math.


    Here's the math. That pic is from 2012. The shitbag of Brunei announced sharia in 2014

    bush-x-bin-laden_1.jpg

    poncho-binladen.jpg

    23postal.xlarge1.jpg

    Friends-Forever-1.jpg

    bush-44704604048.jpeg