Are rising sea levels a real threat to Florida’s coastal cities?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 24, 2015 11:01 PM GMT
    It’s high time Scott and Republican legislators set aside their ideological animus toward the term “climate change,” because the increased flooding now seen in some low-lying areas at high tide will only get worse.

    http://opinionzone.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2015/05/23/are-rising-sea-levels-a-real-threat-to-floridas-coastal-cities/
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    May 25, 2015 2:46 AM GMT
    Oh but the Republicans have acted upon it in sorts, particularly with the 2014 Republican-sponsored, wool-possibly-pulled-over-their-eyes conservationists-backed initiative to use public money to purchase soon to be flooded private lands.

    It was my very first "environmental" bill I ever voted against, because, given as we now have the science on the impending doom to the coasts and, that great River of Grass, the Everglades, the only sense I could make of pouring money into land soon to be covered by rising tides was that this was less of an environmental issue and more of a money grab.

    The measure passed 75% to 25 and sets aside 33% of "existing excise tax on documents" in part for the purchase of private tracts of low lying lands (how convenient) purportedly "to acquire and improve conservation easements, wildlife management areas, wetlands (low lying by definition), forests, fish and wildlife habitats, beaches and shores (also low lying), recreational trails and parks, urban open space, rural landscapes, working farms and ranches (oh, you mean those low lying sugar properties out by the Everglades), historical and geological sites, lands protecting water and drinking water resources and lands in the Everglades (cough, low lying, cough) Agricultural Areas and the Everglades Protection Area (low lying, cough cough)

    What sort of money is involved, you ask? "The state revenue restricted to the purposes specified in the amendment is estimated to be $648 million in Fiscal Year 2015-16 and grows to $1.268 billion by the twentieth year."**

    So as you can see, while they deny it, they very much have their hands in it.

    Now, granted, I might be overly skeptical on this one. We know the shit's rising. But we don't know precisely how much or how fast or even if there might be technology in the future to stop it.

    So then if you are an absolute optimist, you'd want to take some measures now to protect, wildlife, water supplies, etc., otherwise later would be too late.

    Assuming there is a later, which just seems so questionable at this point that I thought it would have been wiser to gather more data, home in on this, so that we know what the fuck we're doing. There seems to be some flying by the seat of pants now as held evident by this initiative. Because if we do believe or know that the water is rising, then why pour money there?

    And here's one of the latest budgeted items to make the point:

    http://www.lehighacrescitizen.com/page/content.detail/id/533541/Land-buy-critical-for-Everglades-restoration.html?nav=5096
    During the 2015 Florida legislative session, the legislature has a unique and unprecedented opportunity to restore the Florida Everglades and coastal estuaries on the west and east coast of south Florida...

    While Governor Scott and key legislative leaders including Senator Joe Negron (R), Senate Appropriations Committee, Representative Steve Crisafulli (R), Speaker of the House and Representative Matt Caldwell (R), House Appropriations Committee continue to support the expenditure of billions of dollars of taxpayers money under the current capital improvement program of water resource projects to the west and east of Lake Okeechobee, there is a critical need to purchase additional land south of the lake for storage, treatment and conveyance of water to the Everglades.


    So this is a real weird situation for Florida. If the environment can be fixed, or if a "soft landing" can be engineered, how do you risk the Everglades? Or if they are doomed, why are we pouring in billions in part to purchase large tracts of low lying lands from major land owners who later wouldn't be able to sell?

    **[urlhttp://ballotpedia.org/Florida_Water_and_Land_Conservation_Initiative,_Amendment_1_(2014)[/url]

    U138P200T1D213514F12DT20090122000100.jpg
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    May 25, 2015 3:03 AM GMT
    http://coast.noaa.gov/slr/
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    May 25, 2015 3:16 AM GMT
    "Sea Rise Threatens Florida Coast, but No Statewide Plan"

    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/05/10/us/ap-us-floridas-rising-seas-abridged-.html
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    May 25, 2015 1:31 PM GMT
    Yes. If you own property in Miami, you're going to want to move as soon as possible. Barring another sudden ice age, your property is definitely going under water.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14342

    May 25, 2015 1:50 PM GMT
    No more vulnerable to flooding than other low laying areas like Savannah GA, the Bahamas, Louisiana, Mobile AL, and much of Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula.
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    May 25, 2015 3:15 PM GMT
    -i bet there are other smaller coastal areas at risk.

    -so actual new occasional street flooding due to the tide... interesting!

    -wells, if they are shallow (30-500 feet), are prone to failure.

  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    May 25, 2015 4:38 PM GMT
    pellaz said-i bet there are other smaller coastal areas at risk.

    -so actual new occasional street flooding due to the tide... interesting!

    -wells, if they are shallow (30-500 feet), are prone to failure.


    HUH?
    Yeah rising water levels make wells fail... in cartoons.
    laughter9.gif

    That's as logical as saying if you lower your home's roof height to four feet you'll need a twelve foot ladder to get on it.
    The whole global warming/melting polar ice debate cold be solved if scientists would discuss the REAL PROBLEM, The #1 Greenhouse Gas; DHMO and find a way to eliminate it.

    http://www.dhmo.org/

    It's been linked to cancer and other diseases but global warming scientists have ignored it for years.
    The causative link between Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) and Cancer is currently not established, although a significant amount of evidence seems to suggest that DHMO at least plays a role in the formation of cancer, including:
    Hodgkin's Lymphoma,
    Ewing's Tumor,
    Chondrosarcoma,
    Fibrosarcoma,
    Multiple myeloma,
    Colorectal cancer,
    Leukemia,
    Basal cell carcinoma,
    Squamous cell carcinoma,
    Leprosy,
    Bubonic Plague,
    Obesity,
    Congenital Hydrocephaly
    Skiing fatalities
    Malignant melanoma.

    http://www.dhmo.org/cancer.html

    DHMO is ...... is also known as hydric acid, and is the major component of acid rain.
    It contributes to the Greenhouse Effect.
    It may cause severe burns.
    It contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
    It accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
    It may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
    It has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

    It is used as...
    An industrial solvent and coolant.
    The most universal cleansing agent known to science.
    An instrument of torture.
    A component in nuclear power plants.
    In the production of styrofoam.
    In many forms of cruel animal research.
    In the distribution of pesticides.
    As an additive in certain junk-foods and other food products.

    Companies dump waste DHMO into rivers and the ocean, and nothing can be done to stop them because this practice is still legal. The impact on wildlife is extreme, and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer!

    CDC reports an average of 4921 people are killed by exposure to DHMO every year - 80% of them are males.

    The corrupt federal government is doing nothing to stop DHMO from killing thousands of people a year.


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    May 25, 2015 6:38 PM GMT
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/miami-beachs-climate-change-startegy-build-to-fund-protection-for-buildings/2014/12/22/e0e1e0de-8a1c-11e4-a085-34e9b9f09a58_story.html
    ...But Miami Beach needs this penthouse — and many more like it. The more developers build here, the more taxes and fees the city collects to fund a $300 million storm-water project to defend the shore against the rising sea...

    ... By 2020, Miami Beach plans to complete 80 new storm pumps that will collect and banish up to 14,000 gallons of seawater per minute back into Biscayne Bay. Construction started in February. The goal is to reduce sunny-day flooding — which frequently invades streets at high tide whether it is raining or not — and prepare the community for future ocean swell....

    ...The $300 million project is ambitious for a city with a $502 million annual budget. A new storm-water utility fee levied on homeowners, hotels and stores helped Miami Beach save enough money to borrow the first $100 million.

    The project started before planners worked out all the funding. It’s unclear how the city will raise the rest. “We don’t have time for analysis-paralysis,” Levine said. “We are going to have to get ­creative.”...

    ...The ocean around South Florida, which sits on porous limestone, is expected to rise nearly three feet in the next 86 years, according to Florida State University research....

    ...Many buyers come from South America and are more concerned about currency instability in their home countries than encroaching saltwater. “They want somewhere safe to park their money,” said Zalewski, whose firm tracks applications. “A lot of buyers here never step foot in the condos. They’ll sell them before the water makes it to the bottom floor of their buildings anyway.”

    Goodbye_Miami_Title_Page_-__RollingStone
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    May 26, 2015 5:30 PM GMT
    BIG_N_TALL saidCharleston, SC is already starting to flood with just high tide in some of the lower-lying "historical" districts. It is not epic flooding, but the water starts to back-flow up the grates in the streets.

    When it is high tide AND thunderstorm(s) with a lot of rain..... you might as well accept the fact you will in all likelihood be walking (I don't recommend because of sewage) or driving through a foot or above of water in some places. The drainage systems that are downtown just can't handle the water. If a hurricane hits Charleston with high tide... well... you get the idea.

    This is not a theory or hypothetical. Whatever you think the cause is, it is a problem regardless.


    18 years ago I was in Charleston when 3-4 inches of rain fell on a Sunday morning. It was city wide pandemonium into the afternoon with flooded streets - completely unrelated to tides. In 2009 I was visiting relatives on a weekday in Montgomery, Alabama when they had an unbelievable 29 inches of rain in 3 hours. It was a a flood with on death due to driver idiocy I saw gas station dumpsters floating down streets, a manhole cover sitting 2 feet above streets on columns of water and hundreds of floating cars stalled out from people trying to drive through flooded streets. However it was not the two days of mayhem I'd seen in Charleston.

    The difference is terrain and the gradient of storm drainage systems of the two cities; Charleston has a bare minimum in gradient for drainage.

    In my 37 years residing on the back waters in Northwest Florida I've gone through 3 major hurricanes with tidal surges over 9 feet that reached my property plus four less than major ones. We had two major hurricanes less than two months apart in 1995. We rebuild in record time and go on with life.

    Charleston is a sitting duck for hurricanes because of it's terrain. A ten foot tidal surge from a hurricane would flood the entire city worse than anything that has ever hit New Orleans.


    Go here and see that.
    http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/charleston/new-interactive-map-shows-effects-of-sea-level-rise-on-charleston/Content?oid=4972978
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 27, 2015 2:46 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said... claims that the streets of Miami flood at high tide.

    Uh.... no the streets of Miami don't flood at high tide.

    Obama to Coast Guard grads: Climate change deniers endanger national security

    As for the impact in the U.S., Obama pointed to streets in Miami and Charleston, South Carolina, that flood at high tide and to military bases around the country already feeling negative effects.

    http://www.turnto10.com/story/29110685/president-in-connecticut-to-speak-at-coast-guard-graduation

    theantijock saidhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/miami-beachs-climate-change-startegy-build-to-fund-protection-for-buildings/2014/12/22/e0e1e0de-8a1c-11e4-a085-34e9b9f09a58_story.html
    ...But Miami Beach needs this penthouse — and many more like it. The more developers build here, the more taxes and fees the city collects to fund a $300 million storm-water project to defend the shore against the rising sea...

    ... By 2020, Miami Beach plans to complete 80 new storm pumps that will collect and banish up to 14,000 gallons of seawater per minute back into Biscayne Bay. Construction started in February. The goal is to reduce sunny-day flooding — which frequently invades streets at high tide whether it is raining or not — and prepare the community for future ocean swell....

    ...The $300 million project is ambitious for a city with a $502 million annual budget. A new storm-water utility fee levied on homeowners, hotels and stores helped Miami Beach save enough money to borrow the first $100 million.

    The project started before planners worked out all the funding. It’s unclear how the city will raise the rest. “We don’t have time for analysis-paralysis,” Levine said. “We are going to have to get ­creative.”...

    ...The ocean around South Florida, which sits on porous limestone, is expected to rise nearly three feet in the next 86 years, according to Florida State University research....

    ...Many buyers come from South America and are more concerned about currency instability in their home countries than encroaching saltwater. “They want somewhere safe to park their money,” said Zalewski, whose firm tracks applications. “A lot of buyers here never step foot in the condos. They’ll sell them before the water makes it to the bottom floor of their buildings anyway.”

    Goodbye_Miami_Title_Page_-__RollingStone