Ashkenazi Jews are not white people

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    May 28, 2015 5:53 PM GMT
    Interesting article. Definitely explains why we identify as Jews even though lacking any religious impulse whatever.

    http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/ashkenazi-jews-are-not-white-response-to-haaretz-article/
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    May 28, 2015 6:15 PM GMT
    I wish they rename AshkeNAZI to something else! icon_razz.gif
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    May 28, 2015 6:24 PM GMT
    ethnically might not be white but the DNA is, or at least according to 23andme that list ashkenazis as a subgroup of europeans (white)
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    May 29, 2015 2:35 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidI wish they rename AshkeNAZI to something else! icon_razz.gif


    "Ashkenaz" was the medieval Hebrew name for Germany, based on the names of one of the descendants of Noah in Genesis 10. Here's Wikipedia on the etymology of the name:

    Etymology
    The name Ashkenazi derives from the biblical figure of Ashkenaz, the first son of Gomer, and a Japhetic patriarch in the Table of Nations (Genesis 10). The name of Gomer has often been linked to the ethnonym Cimmerians. Biblical Ashkenaz is usually derived from Assyrian Aškūza (cuneiform Aškuzai/Iškuzai), a people who expelled the Cimmerians from the Armenian area of the Upper Euphrates,[28] whose name is usually associated with the name of the Scythians.[29][30] The intrusive n in the Biblical name is likely due to a scribal error confusing a waw ו with a nun נ.[29][30][31]

    In Jeremiah 51:27, Ashkenaz figures as one of three kingdoms in the far north, the others being Minni and Ararat, perhaps corresponding to Urartu, called on by God to resist Babylon.[31][32]

    In the Yoma tractate of the Babylonian Talmud the name Gomer is rendered as Germania, which elsewhere in rabbinical literature was identified with Germanikia in northwestern Syria, but later became associated with Germania. Ashkenaz is linked to Scandza/Scanzia, viewed as the cradle of Germanic tribes, as early as a 6th-century gloss to the Historia Ecclesiastica of Eusebius.[33] In the 10th-century History of Armenia of Yovhannes Drasxanakertc'i (1.15) Ashkenaz was associated with Armenia,[28] as it was occasionally in Jewish usage, where its denotation extended at times to Adiabene, Khazaria, Crimea and areas to the east.[34] His contemporary Saadia Gaon identified Ashkenaz with the Saquliba or Slavic territories,[35] and such usage covered also the lands of tribes neighboring the Slavs, and Eastern and Central Europe.[34] In modern times, Samuel Krauss identified the Biblical "Ashkenaz" with Khazaria.[35]

    Sometime in the early medieval period, the Jews of central and eastern Europe came to be called by this term.[31] In conformity with the custom of designating areas of Jewish settlement with biblical names, Spain was denominated Sefarad (Obadiah 20), France was called Tsarefat (1 Kings 17:9), and Bohemia was called the Land of Canaan.[36] By the high medieval period, Talmudic commentators like Rashi began to use Ashkenaz/Eretz Ashkenaz to designate Germany, earlier known as Loter,[31][33] where, especially in the Rhineland communities of Speyer, Worms and Mainz, the most important Jewish communities arose.[37] Rashi uses leshon Ashkenaz (Ashkenazi language) to describe German speech, and Byzantium and Syrian Jewish letters referred to the Crusaders as Ashkenazim.[33] Given the close links between the Jewish communities of France and Germany following the Carolingian unification, the term Ashkenazi came to refer to both the Jews of medieval Germany and France.[38]


    In any event, I don't really agree with the article. Ashekenazi Jews are white, but Jews as a whole include all races:

    See: http://bechollashon.org/about/jewish_diversity.php

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    May 29, 2015 2:58 AM GMT
    samylicious said
    David666k saidethnically might not be white but the DNA is, or at least according to 23andme that list ashkenazis as a subgroup of europeans (white)


    Ashkenazi Jews don't believe they are part of Europe or Europeans. They believe they are originally from the Middle East (Israel).

    That is true there are some South Europeans and Middle Eastern people dislike calling themselves "White", but the Middle Eastern are considered WHITE under Caucasian's categories.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race


    Im not sure youre familiar with 23andme, its a DNA test that tracks your roots through your DNA and its really accurate.

    Different races that have different genes and they can easily be determinated. European (white) is one of the main categories that includes subtypes like German/french, Italians, Ashkenazis, baltics, etc (each one with their own distinctive genes).. So ashkenazies are genetically white.

    Middle Eastern are another main catgeory, different than whites.

    Some places like Spain or southern Italy are quite mixed and a big part of the population is partially middle eastern, at least genetically. That's why they look darker. What Im saying is ashkenazis might not concider themselves ethnically white, but they can't trick DNA.
  • Unnamed6

    Posts: 1149

    May 29, 2015 3:17 AM GMT
    David666k said
    samylicious said
    David666k saidethnically might not be white but the DNA is, or at least according to 23andme that list ashkenazis as a subgroup of europeans (white)


    Ashkenazi Jews don't believe they are part of Europe or Europeans. They believe they are originally from the Middle East (Israel).

    That is true there are some South Europeans and Middle Eastern people dislike calling themselves "White", but the Middle Eastern are considered WHITE under Caucasian's categories.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race


    Im not sure youre familiar with 23andme, its a DNA test that tracks your roots through your DNA and its really accurate.

    Different races that have different genes and they can easily be determinated. European (white) is one of the main categories that includes subtypes like German/french, Italians, Ashkenazis, baltics, etc (each one with their own distinctive genes).. So ashkenazies are genetically white.

    Middle Eastern are another main catgeory, different than whites.

    Some places are mixed though like Spain or souther Italy that have many dark mediterraneans with middle eastern blood. But these are mixes formed by 2 different things (white and middle eastern). What I say is you can't trick DNA.


    Though I myself find fascination with Jews, would anyone actually want affiliation with them? And note the abuse and misuse of science and language in the most recent open relationship thread just to satisfy Jewish bourgeois egotism...
  • smegnificient

    Posts: 269

    May 29, 2015 3:24 AM GMT
    whatever. White enough for grindr icon_lol.gif
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    May 29, 2015 3:31 AM GMT
    Unnamed6 said
    David666k said
    samylicious said
    David666k saidethnically might not be white but the DNA is, or at least according to 23andme that list ashkenazis as a subgroup of europeans (white)


    Ashkenazi Jews don't believe they are part of Europe or Europeans. They believe they are originally from the Middle East (Israel).

    That is true there are some South Europeans and Middle Eastern people dislike calling themselves "White", but the Middle Eastern are considered WHITE under Caucasian's categories.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race


    Im not sure youre familiar with 23andme, its a DNA test that tracks your roots through your DNA and its really accurate.

    Different races that have different genes and they can easily be determinated. European (white) is one of the main categories that includes subtypes like German/french, Italians, Ashkenazis, baltics, etc (each one with their own distinctive genes).. So ashkenazies are genetically white.

    Middle Eastern are another main catgeory, different than whites.

    Some places are mixed though like Spain or souther Italy that have many dark mediterraneans with middle eastern blood. But these are mixes formed by 2 different things (white and middle eastern). What I say is you can't trick DNA.


    Though I myself find fascination with Jews, would anyone actually want affiliation with them? And note the abuse and misuse of science and language in the most recent open relationship thread just to satisfy Jewish bourgeois egotism...


    Answer to your question: probably not - but that's not the point. What I say is they are genetically white, like it or not, why is it so hard to understand? Im not making this up, it's scientifically prooved , the reason I know is because I got tested myself so Ive been reading a lot about it, by the way, Im 0% ashkenazi icon_cool.gif
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    May 29, 2015 6:31 AM GMT
    Sharkspeare saidAshkenazi Jews are not white people
    Does that mean they're bad people? icon_eek.gif
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    May 29, 2015 7:14 AM GMT
    ^^ There are many people in the middle east with green eyes and fair skin and they still got middle eastern blood - either that or their ansestors were white. Whatever it is a DNA test reveals the exact gens composition and background. For example maybe your parents are from Palestine, have green eyes and fair skin; they might be 100% middle eastern or maybe the DNA results show they have european blood, which means their ansestors emigrated from Europe to Palestine at some point.

    My great grandfather was middle eastern himself and had light brown hair, however he obviously had middle eastern gens in him because 3 generations later I still got a percentage of middle eastern DNA in me.
  • monstapex

    Posts: 478

    May 30, 2015 8:18 PM GMT
    Is it pronounce Ask a Nazi?
    Nazi-Stuff_o_93130.webp
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    May 31, 2015 4:39 PM GMT
    Unnamed6 said
    David666k said
    samylicious said
    David666k saidethnically might not be white but the DNA is, or at least according to 23andme that list ashkenazis as a subgroup of europeans (white)


    Ashkenazi Jews don't believe they are part of Europe or Europeans. They believe they are originally from the Middle East (Israel).

    That is true there are some South Europeans and Middle Eastern people dislike calling themselves "White", but the Middle Eastern are considered WHITE under Caucasian's categories.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race


    Im not sure youre familiar with 23andme, its a DNA test that tracks your roots through your DNA and its really accurate.

    Different races that have different genes and they can easily be determinated. European (white) is one of the main categories that includes subtypes like German/french, Italians, Ashkenazis, baltics, etc (each one with their own distinctive genes).. So ashkenazies are genetically white.

    Middle Eastern are another main catgeory, different than whites.

    Some places are mixed though like Spain or souther Italy that have many dark mediterraneans with middle eastern blood. But these are mixes formed by 2 different things (white and middle eastern). What I say is you can't trick DNA.


    Though I myself find fascination with Jews, would anyone actually want affiliation with them? And note the abuse and misuse of science and language in the most recent open relationship thread just to satisfy Jewish bourgeois egotism...


    Huh? Or, should I say, WTF? That said, the original article from the Times is a rather silly regurgitation/combination of junk science such as only the liberal press could print, the Times' posturing as an "independent" journal notwithstanding.
  • Unnamed6

    Posts: 1149

    Jun 11, 2015 4:18 AM GMT
    MGINSD said
    Unnamed6 said
    David666k said
    samylicious said
    David666k saidethnically might not be white but the DNA is, or at least according to 23andme that list ashkenazis as a subgroup of europeans (white)


    Ashkenazi Jews don't believe they are part of Europe or Europeans. They believe they are originally from the Middle East (Israel).

    That is true there are some South Europeans and Middle Eastern people dislike calling themselves "White", but the Middle Eastern are considered WHITE under Caucasian's categories.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race


    Im not sure youre familiar with 23andme, its a DNA test that tracks your roots through your DNA and its really accurate.

    Different races that have different genes and they can easily be determinated. European (white) is one of the main categories that includes subtypes like German/french, Italians, Ashkenazis, baltics, etc (each one with their own distinctive genes).. So ashkenazies are genetically white.

    Middle Eastern are another main catgeory, different than whites.

    Some places are mixed though like Spain or souther Italy that have many dark mediterraneans with middle eastern blood. But these are mixes formed by 2 different things (white and middle eastern). What I say is you can't trick DNA.


    Though I myself find fascination with Jews, would anyone actually want affiliation with them? And note the abuse and misuse of science and language in the most recent open relationship thread just to satisfy Jewish bourgeois egotism...


    Huh? Or, should I say, WTF? That said, the original article from the Times is a rather silly regurgitation/combination of junk science such as only the liberal press could print, the Times' posturing as an "independent" journal notwithstanding.


    I didn't realize you had commented on what I said until today. The reference to 'bourgeois egotism' is to indicate that there have always existed people who are so unabashedly self-indulgent and who will say anything to justify their indulgence, even to the point of abusing science and language to do so (the reasoning and studies cited on open relationships are quite useless since they are biased in favor of an 'egotistical bourgeois view'). Criticism of the 'bourgeois' predates the term itself, and such criticism tended to target people of a middle-upper class background and whose incomes are derived from activity or from professions that don't actually benefit much people, like litigators, college professors, various jobs in the financial sector, etc, etc. The bourgeoisie have produced various reactions over the ages, much of it actually tempered, but have inadvertently provided the impetus for extreme left/right political ideologies and governments in the last two hundred years, and with this last century being the most deadly for them in some countries. One can even say that Nazism, which championed traditional German peasant and labor values (like what one would find in some Midwestern cities) was the ultimate reaction and solution to the bourgeois value system of the self that typified the Weimar years. Bourgeois values have come to characterize most gay men and will characterize general society soon, if it hasn't already happened. The reference to 'Jewish bourgeois egotism' then, is to point out that Jews have often typified such a value system. More so than most, even when compared to today's gay men, the modern Jew is indulgence personified.
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    Jun 12, 2015 8:21 AM GMT
  • Unnamed6

    Posts: 1149

    Jun 13, 2015 12:39 AM GMT
    bon_pan said


    When Pazzy raves about gay white men he's actually making criticism of bourgeois elements of the gay community. However, some of the individuals he frequently has fights with on this forum don't actually have a bourgeois outlook on life, and ironically, he seems 'okay' with RJ members who wreak of bourgeois vibes (who variously come from places like Canada, Florida and New York, and some of whom are non-white). Perhaps it's better to attack the message and not the messenger? I do find that gay black men, while not free from bourgeois elements, are the least likely to be bourgeois and thus can be generally attractive because of it.
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    Jun 13, 2015 1:44 AM GMT
    Azurekite900 saidAll ethnic Jews in Europe and Israel are white people. Jesus is White, so is Mary, and Moses.

    Are you joking? Jesus was middle eastern (brown)
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3386

    Jun 14, 2015 5:02 AM GMT
    David666k saidethnically might not be white but the DNA is, or at least according to 23andme that list ashkenazis as a subgroup of europeans (white)

    Perhaps because Ashkenazi Jews lived in Europe for 1,000-2,000 years. But genetics is a lot more complex than the apparent color of one's skin.

    A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages
    http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/full/ncomms3543.html

    || we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry. Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe

    That's ~40% of the maternal DNA, or ~20% of the overall DNA.

    For the paternal side, we look at the Y chromosome:

    The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/?tool=pubmed

    || the majority of contemporary Jews descended from the ancient Israelites that had lived in the historic land of Israel until ~2000 years ago. ...neither Ashkenazi nor Sephardic Jews cluster adjacent to their former host populations, a finding that argues against substantial admixture of males. These findings are in accordance with those described by Hammer et al. (2000).

    || The study demonstrates that the Y chromosome pool of Jews is an integral part of the genetic landscape of the region and, in particular, that Jews exhibit a high degree of genetic affinity to populations living in the north of the Fertile Crescent.


    We've come a long way from the "one drop rule" when we consider people who may be going on 80% non-European to be "white".

    Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people.
    (Judaism is a religion, Jews are an ethnic group)

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/494893
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    Jun 14, 2015 2:11 PM GMT
    mwolverine said
    David666k saidethnically might not be white but the DNA is, or at least according to 23andme that list ashkenazis as a subgroup of europeans (white)

    Perhaps because Ashkenazi Jews lived in Europe for 1,000-2,000 years. But genetics is a lot more complex than the apparent color of one's skin.

    A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages
    http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/full/ncomms3543.html

    || we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry. Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe

    That's ~40% of the maternal DNA, or ~20% of the overall DNA.

    For the paternal side, we look at the Y chromosome:

    The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/?tool=pubmed

    || the majority of contemporary Jews descended from the ancient Israelites that had lived in the historic land of Israel until ~2000 years ago. ...neither Ashkenazi nor Sephardic Jews cluster adjacent to their former host populations, a finding that argues against substantial admixture of males. These findings are in accordance with those described by Hammer et al. (2000).

    || The study demonstrates that the Y chromosome pool of Jews is an integral part of the genetic landscape of the region and, in particular, that Jews exhibit a high degree of genetic affinity to populations living in the north of the Fertile Crescent.


    We've come a long way from the "one drop rule" when we consider people who may be going on 80% non-European to be "white".

    Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people.
    (Judaism is a religion, Jews are an ethnic group)

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/494893

    So you play football, nice
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    Jun 14, 2015 5:42 PM GMT
    Ahh that's me, my mum is Ashkenazi Jew originating from Israel and my dad is half Jamaican half Irish (funny combination) but I got most of my genes from my mum whereas my sister was the opposite. We have a hard time making people believe that we are actually siblings -3-

    29erngo.jpg

    Sis on the left, mum in the middle and me on the right icon_biggrin.gif
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3386

    Jun 14, 2015 11:35 PM GMT
    Remington47 saidAhh that's me, my mum is Ashkenazi Jew originating from Israel and my dad is half Jamaican half Irish (funny combination)

    Hey, you forgot to say if it's "black Irish".
    Those who need to judge if you are "white" may need to know that. icon_rolleyes.gif

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people#Black_Irish
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    Jun 15, 2015 2:31 AM GMT
    Azurekite900 said
    David666k said
    Azurekite900 saidAll ethnic Jews in Europe and Israel are white people. Jesus is White, so is Mary, and Moses.

    Are you joking? Jesus was middle eastern (brown)



    Yes Jesus is White/Caucasian. People from Israel, Lebanon, and Syria are White/Caucasian. Middle Eastern people come in every race and color not just brown.


    You are delusional. People from Syria are mostly brown not white. And why are you talking of Jesus in present tense? He's died you know. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3386

    Jun 15, 2015 3:41 AM GMT
    Azurekite900 saidTheir still Caucasian even if they are brown. Skin color does not determine your race.

    Their race is... human.

    Jews, Jesus included, were not and are not Caucasian.
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    Jun 15, 2015 11:13 AM GMT
    Azurekite900 said

    Their still Caucasian even if they are brown. Skin color does not determine your race.


    This + still using a fake picture ^^'

    This forum is funny, I might use it more often now icon_biggrin.gif
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jun 15, 2015 2:59 PM GMT
    Unnamed6 said
    David666k said
    samylicious said
    David666k saidethnically might not be white but the DNA is, or at least according to 23andme that list ashkenazis as a subgroup of europeans (white)


    Ashkenazi Jews don't believe they are part of Europe or Europeans. They believe they are originally from the Middle East (Israel).

    That is true there are some South Europeans and Middle Eastern people dislike calling themselves "White", but the Middle Eastern are considered WHITE under Caucasian's categories.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race


    Im not sure youre familiar with 23andme, its a DNA test that tracks your roots through your DNA and its really accurate.

    Different races that have different genes and they can easily be determinated. European (white) is one of the main categories that includes subtypes like German/french, Italians, Ashkenazis, baltics, etc (each one with their own distinctive genes).. So ashkenazies are genetically white.

    Middle Eastern are another main catgeory, different than whites.

    Some places are mixed though like Spain or souther Italy that have many dark mediterraneans with middle eastern blood. But these are mixes formed by 2 different things (white and middle eastern). What I say is you can't trick DNA.


    Though I myself find fascination with Jews, would anyone actually want affiliation with them? And note the abuse and misuse of science and language in the most recent open relationship thread just to satisfy Jewish bourgeois egotism...


    (Bold added above).

    That is naked anti-semitism and you should be ashamed of yourself. There are good Jews and bad Jews, just like every other race and ethnicity or group of people. I refute your hate.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3386

    Jun 15, 2015 4:41 PM GMT
    Svnw688 said
    Unnamed6 saidThough I myself find fascination with Jews, would anyone actually want affiliation with them? And note the abuse and misuse of science and language in the most recent open relationship thread just to satisfy Jewish bourgeois egotism...

    (Bold added above).

    That is naked anti-semitism and you should be ashamed of yourself. There are good Jews and bad Jews, just like every other race and ethnicity or group of people. I refute your hate.

    Thank you for standing up and saying that.

    Unfortunately it's not a first on RJ.

    Why does virulent Anti-Semitism play such a large role in MidEast discussions on RJ?
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4015076