"Scientists Discover Evolutionary Advantage For Homosexuality"

  • Camz03

    Posts: 91

    May 30, 2015 4:13 PM GMT
    http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/scientists-discover-evolutionary-advantage-homosexual-sex

    Plausible hypotheses...
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    May 30, 2015 7:43 PM GMT
    the paper seems to reference two ideas:

    -if gay males manage to impregnate; their female offspring have a higher reproduction rate
    and
    -the gay population "confer a harmonizing reproductive advantage" in the species

    am i reading this correct?
  • Elian

    Posts: 60

    May 30, 2015 8:53 PM GMT
    Both hypothesis sound possible, even though in the article they don't mention anything about epigenetics, which is one of the other possible reasons for homosexuality.

    It seems that the article proves that, at least in flies, female offspring of "homosexualy-inclined flies" is indeed more fertile, which is really interesting to be honest. genes are never conserved fo no reason but I thought that the explanation for a "gay gene" utility would be different. Though obviously this is flies so they don't need to evolve the same characteristics that humans do.
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    May 30, 2015 8:56 PM GMT
    "More specifically, they found that males with a family tree full of males exhibiting SSB tendencies tended to cause an increase in fertility rates when they mated with females."

    It's the family tree. Mine for example, my brother 'causes' an increase in fertility because of the gene. He effectively makes up for my not breeding.

    It doesn't make him homosexual.

    In the extended family tree there would be several "over achievers" that, overall, would promote reproduction.

    My parents had 8 children. My mom's mom had 15, dad's mom had 4. You'd have to go back several generations.

    Interesting!!!

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    May 30, 2015 9:33 PM GMT
    Camz03 saidhttp://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/scientists-discover-evolutionary-advantage-homosexual-sex

    Plausible hypotheses...


    article:
    Males with a genetic makeup associated with high levels of SSB (same sex sexual behavior) produced female offspring with higher rates of reproduction, or fecundity. This suggests that genes associated with SSB could be persisting in the population because they actually confer a fitness advantage in females, despite being reproductively harmful to males.


    I recall that theory from something earlier though I don't now remember if the early mention involved fruit fly experimentation.

    But see also about @4:37 Dawkins who seemed to be closing in on a similar line of thinking...

    "...when we talk about a gene for something...it doesn't always have to be a gene for that thing. It's a gene for that thing under the right environmental conditions...the gay gene...might have in a very different environment have manifested itself in another way..."

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    Jun 03, 2015 2:12 PM GMT
    Just what if there are many genetic chemical situations that assert a gayness? None of which are inherited by itself. Is it so endemic to the human race like having an inne/outs belly button.

    we are the city rats, proposed to living in small studio flats. nature's backup family plan hiding in the closet.

    sounds like the specialists and people that might know have no idea. In this case; is ignorance & superstition really a bad thing.
  • mindblank

    Posts: 275

    Jun 03, 2015 2:22 PM GMT
    Here's my thoughts

    (1)

    The flies engaged in SSB are more likely to have higher libido (maybe some of the SSB is engaged in by flies who do not have exclusively same-sex attraction but simply ride any fly they see) and their "horny genes" will be passed on through hornier than average female flies (and male flies). (study assumes that all SSB equates to being reproductively harmful which is not necessarily true, presumably it suggests that all SSB is undertaken by flies with same sex attraction which may not be true?) If they measured the degree of SSB for each fly, did they also measure the degree of Opposite-sex-behaviour for each fly? I imagine that as a group, those with higher SSB also demonstrate higher than average opposite-sex behaviour. I don't get how the study proved anything.

    (2)

    So the study shows the heritability of SSB - good. Next, how much do we know about the biochemical mechanism for upholding hetero or homo -orientations in flies? Perhaps there is a greater energetic cost to upholding Opposite-sex attraction as compared to Same-sex attraction which weakens the reproductive success of some Opposite-sex attracted flies. If a fly's (or its mother's) genes are less discerning of which gender the fly is attracted to, perhaps fewer things can go wrong, and the mother fly might have offspring of increased viability. More than half of most (every?) species seems to be attracted to the opposite sex. So something is happening to ensure this ratio of hetero>>homosexuals is upheld. Perhaps the genes which uphold Opposite-sex attraction undergo greater energy requirements than those which are less discerning, i.e. those genes associated with more SSB.

    Sorry if I rambled, it all made sense in my mind as plausible thoughts.
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    Jun 03, 2015 7:28 PM GMT
    TomSOCAL said
    timmm55 said"More specifically, they found that males with a family tree full of males exhibiting SSB tendencies tended to cause an increase in fertility rates when they mated with females."

    It's the family tree. Mine for example, my brother 'causes' an increase in fertility because of the gene. He effectively makes up for my not breeding.

    It doesn't make him homosexual.

    In the extended family tree there would be several "over achievers" that, overall, would promote reproduction.

    My parents had 8 children. My mom's mom had 15, dad's mom had 4. You'd have to go back several generations.

    Interesting!!!



    Number of children, do you come from a Mormon family? They have more children so do they tend to increase the amount of gay genes in their families? Your profile lists Palm Springs. Palm Springs was all gay mormons when I was there, the straight mormons were with their wives wearing long skirts at Stater Brothers market and in Cabazon / Gas Station. There were very few Gays who were gentiles in the city. It was very interesting to see that Gay Mormons are coming out and seem to move to Palm Springs in large numbers. There are hardly any Mormons where I was born / raised way up north.


    Get off the Mormon/PS connection. Cabazon isn't PS/ Nor is the High Desert.

    I've lived here since 2013....I lived here in 1979. I've been back every year in between. You were here for 6 months.

    I don't know a single Mormon! (One acquaintance's BF is Mormon, but I don't know him).

    BTW I'm Catholic. You jump to conclusions without evidence.
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    Jun 03, 2015 9:01 PM GMT
    When "Science" goes the Homophobes' waySEE? WE TOLD YOU ALL! WE STR8S ARE BLESSED AND HIGHLY FAVORED! TO HELL WITH THOSE DARN GAYS! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME! AND GIVE ME A DONATION!


    When "Science" doesn't go their wayBAH! IT'S SCIENCE! DISREGARD ANYTHING THOSE CRAZY LIBRUHLS SAY! AND GIVE ME A DONATION!
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    Jun 04, 2015 7:12 PM GMT
    TomSOCAL said[quote][cite]timmm55 said[
    I don't know a single Mormon! (One acquaintance's BF is Mormon, but I don't know him).

    BTW I'm Catholic. You jump to conclusions without evidence.


    You wouldn't know if someone is LDS or ex-LDS in Palm Springs, since that was a difficult experience for them and they won't talk about it - I mean, growing up in The Church knowing they were gay - that was before The Church reversed its position, and now welcomes gays as active members, providing they do not act on it.

    The Church, now has reversed its position and now believes that people are born gay, so they would be interested in this study.

    Move to Denver, San Francisco/Marin County, Coravllis, OR, or LA if you want cities who are under 1% LDS, they are the lowest metro areas in the entire western US. Unlike Palm Springs, I have not seen the Mormons buying up large areas of retail and residential real estate in these cities.[/quote]

    So you have seen "Mormons buying up large areas of retail and residential real estate" in Palm Springs?

    Evidence please!
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    Jun 05, 2015 8:48 PM GMT
    Tom, stop derailing topics!
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    Jun 06, 2015 7:08 PM GMT
    TomSOCAL said
    timmm55 saidTom, stop derailing topics!


    Sir, you continue to ask me for info about the LDS control of Palm Springs, and I try to answer your questions and concerns in the best way that I can. I didn't derail any topic. Just answering your questions and concerns.

    I simply asked you if you were LDS given what you said about yourself. I also said that perhaps, there would be a higher incidence of gay genes in LDS Families due to larger numbers of children. So, it is interesting that they are the first major worldwide denomination to acknowledge that people are born - gay. The very first. Nobody else has stated this.


    I did NOT ask for your opinion on the LDS on this thread.

    You brought it up, yet again....because I mentioned how many children were in my family. MY CATHOLIC family.

    As for the the LDS and Gays:

    It's a little weird, mostly because, unlike the bible, The Book of Mormon actually makes no references to homosexuality. Still, the church maintains that while "the attraction itself is not a sin, acting on it is," which isn't all that different from the views of other religions, like Catholicism. But instead of just asking gay followers to simply abstain from gay sex, Mormonism actively seeks to "pray the gay away" with counseling that aims to train gay people to be able to exist in heterosexual marriages, since marriage is a very important tenet of the religion. Videos of some of these "success" stories are also available on the site.

    http://jezebel.com/5966688/mormon-church-officially-states-that-being-gay-is-not-a-choice