Why do people cheat? Rethinking Infidelity.

  • Bunjamon

    Posts: 3161

    May 31, 2015 4:47 AM GMT
    Esther Perel is a psychotherapist who specializes in sex and intimacy in long-term relationships. She was profiled in the NYT not too long ago and I think her perspective and research is very captivating and thought-provoking. If you have 20 minutes, I highly recommend that you watch this video, particularly considering the amount of people who claim that gay men can't be monogamous or that all gay men are in open relationships and yadda yadda yadda.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 31, 2015 4:51 AM GMT
    Infidelity Hides in Your Genes

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4054904
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 31, 2015 7:41 AM GMT
    TBH when you said 20 minutes I decided not to watch it because I'm that lazy.
    Here's my 2 cents though.

    I think it's extremely immature, stupid and lazy to use "genes" as a reason for cheating.
    News flash, science doesn't have to tell you that everybody has FREE WILL.

    For example, the notion of sacrifice and compromise.
    They are perfect examples of doing something that may not be necessarily what you want to do, but you CHOOSE to do them in order to achieve a success in something that will result later as opposed to immediately.
    This very thing is applied in all aspects of life be it work, career, family, friends, relationships, goals in life etc.

    There is NO GENE in your body that forces you beyond free will to cheat.
    To cheat is to choose to cheat and it's sooooooo fucking stupid that people who like to cheat or like to be on the down low use stupid excuses like "genes" to justify their actions and try removing the guilt.

    You're not BORN into a relationship with someone, you CHOOSE to be in one.
    You can easily make the choice to NOT cheat, or break up with them and find someone else, or DECIDE to be on the down low and cheat.
    It is not however a gene in your body that is beyond your control that supersedes free will because that is the most fucking ridiculous bullshit I've ever heard in my entire life.
  • mar0302

    Posts: 273

    May 31, 2015 11:26 AM GMT
    First.. I really like TED talks.. I find them to be insightful and often make me think about things in a different way..

    Second, this particular talk was very good.. she is very insightful about the changing demographics and meaning of fidelity and about some of the impacts on people and how it changes. What she didn't really touch on, but perhaps is within her other talks (there were links about some of her other talks at the end) is what people could do to avoid infidelity.. although she seemed to be portraying na inevitability about the whole thing (which might be due to her career and seeing infidelity all the time)..
  • transient

    Posts: 211

    May 31, 2015 11:50 AM GMT
    DryMoan saidTBH when you said 20 minutes I decided not to watch it because I'm that lazy.
    Here's my 2 cents though.

    I think it's extremely immature, stupid and lazy to use "genes" as a reason for cheating.
    News flash, science doesn't have to tell you that everybody has FREE WILL.

    For example, the notion of sacrifice and compromise.
    They are perfect examples of doing something that may not be necessarily what you want to do, but you CHOOSE to do them in order to achieve a success in something that will result later as opposed to immediately.
    This very thing is applied in all aspects of life be it work, career, family, friends, relationships, goals in life etc.

    There is NO GENE in your body that forces you beyond free will to cheat.
    To cheat is to choose to cheat and it's sooooooo fucking stupid that people who like to cheat or like to be on the down low use stupid excuses like "genes" to justify their actions and try removing the guilt.

    You're not BORN into a relationship with someone, you CHOOSE to be in one.
    You can easily make the choice to NOT cheat, or break up with them and find someone else, or DECIDE to be on the down low and cheat.
    It is not however a gene in your body that is beyond your control that supersedes free will because that is the most fucking ridiculous bullshit I've ever heard in my entire life.


    Excellent....... you realy didnt watch the video, eh?











    ___________________________________________________________


    I saw this video yesterday from another link and it has helped me to refocus my energys and reassess how I can deal with my partners recent infidelity.

    This is a must watch for everyone.
  • mar0302

    Posts: 273

    May 31, 2015 12:10 PM GMT
    He clearly didn't watch.. ha, but it is very insightful.. I don't think she mentions genes once to be honest.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 31, 2015 1:05 PM GMT
    I swear I didn't watch it.
    Just gathering from the title and the next guy's response I gave my 2 cents on what I thought the video could have addressed and assumed it might have been about "genes" as an explanation towards cheating.

    Still I'm surprised someone agreed at least to some degree because on a different thread and possibly on a different forum I get blasted from people with them saying it's normal human nature and biological drive from survival of the fittest or some kind of crap like that.

    Maybe that excuse might fly back in the Neanderthal era but unless you're still as stupid as the Neanderthals long ago, it's the lamest and most cop out excuse to justify cheating I've ever heard.

    Biological drive from survival of the fittest for gay men?
    Unless there are some gays who don't realise that they can't actually procreate with another guy, that excuse doesn't make sense at all.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 31, 2015 1:41 PM GMT
    I like some of what she's said but I think she's off base on some other stuff.

    I like very much how she discusses that people aren't necessarily acting out against their partner but that they are reacting towards themselves. Her ending remark on remarrying is clever and true though she seems to imply by her wit a specific direction which might not be necessarily valid because once you discover who a person really is, you simply might not want to know them.

    Yes, it is traumatic to think that's who they were all along, even when they pretended to be a better person than who it turns out they really were not, but that's sometimes how the cards play. I'd put that in the category of things that make ya go "ick". Not that people don't make mistakes, not that there isn't forgive & forget when possible, not that there isn't starting anew. But all of that is contextual, not directional. Overall, however, she seems to be seeking balance.

    I also enjoyed hearing her quick mention that there can be cheating in open relationships though she didn't really clarify what she might have meant by that. By that she could have been saying, counter what many douchebags here say, that an open relationship and cheating are not the same, which of course is true. It might have been a bit complex for a limited timed TED to go into how rules might be broken, how monogamy is not just about sex but emotionally so, etc., and so all she really did was to wave hello at open relationships, but not judgmentally so, which was fine.

    Where I thought her off base, though she could have corrected the statement by specifying "within a closed relationship" was to say that cheating is the greatest betrayal a person can experience. Clearly that is not true but typical of TED over-exaggerating to make whatever point.

    I was betrayed horribly while I was in mourning, so timing can make a betrayal even worse. What about our boys fighting wars who get hit and maimed by friendly fire. No betrayal trauma there? They've even found that guys behind the lines can be affected more so than guys on the line because the guys on the line often have not just more training but at the time are under such stresses which create protective chemistries in their brains that guys behind the lines don't have. A guy controlling an unmanned drone can suffer more PTSD than a guy on a front line.

    Other betrayals are more affecting as well. They say the greatest loss with regard to mourning is a parent's grief for a child who predeceases them. Which is sort of a betrayal perpetrated by life itself, isn't it? How about a child who stops talking to their mother, trauma? I know of a situation like that and the child has absolutely ruined the mother's life. From a divorce you can rebuild. But from your own child? So there are greater traumas.

    But otherwise I think she does a good job at exploring what she finds to be a common issue. I never did relate to people who cheat. My experience is with open relationships which worked out perfectly fine and were not sought out purposely, just worked out like that.

    I don't at all relate to those who think they can get away with hiding who they really are to try and woo someone into a relationship, only to later reveal or get caught being the dirt bag they really are. And then they go around not understanding why someone wouldn't take them back? That to me is beyond sad, it's utterly pathetic. Grow the fuck up.

    And I currently even have a dilemma with that because I've kept so many of my old friends who I grew up with who act in ways of people I might not befriend today. They are grandfathered in because I love them but I limit the relationships in ways that at least I can find acceptable enough, mostly consisting of not visiting their homes to take advantage of by befriending wives I know are living an unknown or unacknowledged lie. I can't be party to that.

    So the dilemma then to allow my friends to be who they are when they are with me--I don't stop them from telling me all their indiscretions--but I have to be allowed to be myself too, I can't befriend their wives knowing what I know.

    It is one of the beautiful things about open relationships, the honesty. Sure there can be cheating there to and I haven't done studies, don't know if anyone has, but I'd imagine way less cheating there than in closed relationships, simply because there is less of a sense of captivity in the first place which might otherwise contribute to any inclination to cheat.

    What is most disgusting is how judgmental scum here accuse open relationships as being some pit of cheaters who have found a way to get away with it, when the reality is that open relationships are a sanctuary for people who are being more honest with themselves than the jealous and insecure who insist on ordering a round of monogamy for everyone. You probably can't say this on TED but those types of monogamists can go fuck themselves.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 02, 2015 10:07 AM GMT
    Why do some people cheat?

    See:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4056877

    Terms of Endearment is a good movie about sex outside of marriage.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 02, 2015 2:29 PM GMT
    pazmurder saidwell.... she pretty much shitted on all you folks in open relationships. icon_lol.gif a lot of gay men in open relationships or like to do threesomes where they "play together".

    ^Bullshit^

    So it's not just when you read, but also when you listen that you project the worst parts of yourself into what you perceive instead of seeking & trying to understand what is actually there.

    Here is how she views open relationships, completely not how you have just mischaracterized her, but rather completely in line with everything she said in the vid. In fact, it even repeats the notion of "remarrying" the same person under differing circumstances, allowing for flexibility in relationships and for growth of individuals without stiffening one or stagnating the other.

    The vid was about closed relationships. Here her article is about open relationships. She utilizes the very same wording and thinking, completely contrary to what you've just wrongly said.

    http://www.yourtango.com/experts/esther-perel/boundaries-negotiation-and-open-relationships
    Boundaries, Negotiation and Open Relationships
    By Esther Perel


    ”Open relationships” where both members of a couple are “allowed” to have sex with other people, remains a relatively fringe practice. But is it possible that this will be a new way of keeping relationships stronger and more lasting?

    This question of monogamy, polyamory, fidelity as defined in terms of sexual exclusivity, this is the new frontier. The next line that will be questioned. We used to shun premarital sex, now it is practically par for the course in the West. Homosexuality was also shunned, today, thankfully, it is far more widely accepted. We have moved from a general culture of sexual duty to sexual pleasure for women. Next, will monogamy need to be negotiated and not just assumed?

    Couples are negotiating the boundaries of their relationships as a way to preserve their relationships. This is, I think, a key point to understanding this new frontier. It is done not out of disillusion, but out of hope and commitment.

    Non-monogamy is not for everyone, and there should be no societal pressure either way. People live much longer today than in previous generations. This means that committing to a partner has a different implication. Our lives are often long. What does this extended lifespan mean for our romantic and sexual choices, growth, and patterns?

    Will monogamy be relativized? Will a new norm include periods of openness, others not, mostly monogamous, rather than open or closed as fixed entities, agreements that are revisited at different stages of the lifecycle?

    Flexibility is a key word here. This will be how we may approach an understanding that in this new culture, it will be possible to recognize that people will have more than one marriage with the same person with different rules and boundaries along the way.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 02, 2015 4:32 PM GMT
    -The video was all about straight mostly married couples.
    -gay or straight a lot of things in a relationship are the same but the concept of society accepting a gay relationship as a god given right is new.
    -90's gay men may choose to not adapt well.


    woodsmen saidInfidelity Hides in Your Genes
    another bro science discovery, blame your father, mother...



    After seeing the video i thought she (Esther Perel) said:
    -the cheater may think; i deserve to be happy so i cheat
    -infidelity says your not the special one, not the best friend, not a confidant…
    -choosing to immediately dump the chatter is the new shame
    -not so much about the other partner but the cheater is looking for another self caused by death and bad news raise personal doubt
    -if one puts a tenth of the effort in to the relationship that is was spent cheating things would be better off
    -the cheater needs to feel gilt for what he did to the relationship not just his partner
    -what was it like for you when you came home after having the affair
    -what was it that you could not have done with me?
    -to the person doing the cheating: are you pleased its now over?
    -what is the legacy of the affair that will never go away; my first marriage is over, i am creating a second one together with the same person after the infidelity. Most people have 2or3 relationships in their lives.


    my personal views if they matter:
    1)if someone cheated on me 6 months into a relationship i would just end it. No drama. After some TBD time you have invested your self into this person and thus I would put some effort into repairing the situation. At some point the extra stress just gets un healthy and you need to end it.
    2)life is a long winding road. likely someone does you some big bad now, given enough time, you might do an even more grievous sin to him.


  • Apparition

    Posts: 3529

    Jun 02, 2015 10:33 PM GMT
    people cheat because they are selfish cowards.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 03, 2015 1:49 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    theantijock said
    pazmurder saidwell.... she pretty much shitted on all you folks in open relationships. icon_lol.gif a lot of gay men in open relationships or like to do threesomes where they "play together".

    ^Bullshit^

    So it's not just when you read, but also when you listen that you project the worst parts of yourself into what you perceive instead of seeking & trying to understand what is actually there.



    Why bother? His comprehension skills whether it's reading or listening/watching are just plain fucked up. Apparently the spazz mongrel can't differentiate between open relationships and cheating.


    I've noted in another post how conflating the two creeps into the language and thinking. Though I didn't seek to bash him on that, merely to point out where clearly evident his misperception generally based upon his own projecting so that he might think to question himself more before being judgmental of others.

    We are our own best teachers so learning suffers when we fail to question ourselves.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 04, 2015 3:48 AM GMT
    Wow. She kills it. So many good points.

    I will say that based on what guys tell me (straight and gay, monogamous and open) a lack of intimacy is a big driver. Oftentimes, a lack of self intimacy (understanding your needs and how they align/conflict with your values) is a HUGE piece of it. So many guys don't understand themselves and its often not even their fault.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 04, 2015 3:52 PM GMT
    Depend on why someone desire more than the partner who is mature of being sensible and realistic in life. Partner has completed the puzzle which include someone in his/her life to be together and don't have a luxury to spare no time with someone. Someone who wants to think of themselves rather than to hurt the partner's feeling to have important matter to attend. The only reason to cure without broken relationship; an avoid influence yourself to cheat against the partner with strong belief.

    Share each other's feelings in private and the good time before the present, so the past life you can talk about. Then one by one, there is the truth that comes. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2015 6:57 AM GMT
    Probably a great video to recommend to friends who find themselves in that situation.