Bernie Sanders essay: A man's fantasy is about masturbating and a woman's is about being tied up and raped by 3 men

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    Jun 01, 2015 7:22 AM GMT
    Why Bernie Sanders' Decades-Old Rape Fantasies Matter to 2016

    Though written more than 40 years ago, the candidate’s remarks still offend. And if he’s a serious candidate, he shouldn’t get a pass. [just as Republicans don't get passes for similar statements]

    There is no statute of limitations in presidential politics. And if Senator Sanders wants to be taken seriously as a candidate for the highest office, then the right answer is to note that what he wrote about rape 43 years ago, at the age of 31, is seriously messed up.

    His essay, in the Vermont Freeman, begins this way:

    A man goes home and masturbates his typical fantasy. A woman on her knees. A woman tied up. A woman abused.

    A woman enjoys intercourse with her man—as she fantasizes about being raped by 3 men simultaneously.

    Later in the piece, he seems to be saying that traditional gender roles are hurting both men and women, and need to be discarded ASAP. But that changes nothing about his starting point, which is that men typically fantasize about hurting and humiliating women, and women typically fantasize about gang rape.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-29/why-bernie-sanders-decades-old-rape-fantasies-matter-to-2016
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    Jun 01, 2015 3:50 PM GMT
    I do not think Bernie Sanders is getting a pass on this. In the Google news section for Bernie Sanders, his essay is referenced in the headlines of quite a few articles.

    And of course there are possible political consequences with voters, especially the women demographic already cornered by Hilary Clinton. This essay has made it that much more difficult to persuade voters away from Hillary Clinton.

    However, his first couple rape comments in the essay (which to me seems like a shock piece in order to excite viewers to read about gender-equality) do not sync with his record for equality and women’s rights. This is perhaps why the story may not have sticking power.

    Politicians get in trouble when these old quotes either reinforce voters’ perception of a particular candidate or reads like a lie.
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    Jun 01, 2015 3:58 PM GMT
    Jasonfest saidI do not think Bernie Sanders is getting a pass on this. In the Google news section for Bernie Sanders, his essay is referenced in the headlines of quite a few articles.

    And of course there are possible political consequences with voters, especially the women demographic already cornered by Hilary Clinton. This essay has made it that much more difficult to persuade voters away from Hillary Clinton.

    However, his first couple rape comments in the essay (which to me seems like a shock piece in order to excite viewers to read about gender-equality) do not sync with his record for equality and women’s rights. This is perhaps why the story may not have sticking power.

    Politicians get in trouble when these old quotes either reinforce voters’ perception of a particular candidate or reads like a lie.

    Agree with your comments. I would rather they don't hinder him because I think any alternative to someone as dishonest as Hillary is a good thing. My point in noting this is that these things can occur with both parties, and the reaction should not differ just because of party affiliation.
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    Jun 01, 2015 4:36 PM GMT
    ^+1. Yes, and they disgust me from whichever party or person they come from.
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    Jun 01, 2015 5:57 PM GMT
    Wasn't there just a study indicating what men and women's most common fantasies were?

    Note: *FANTASIES* not actually what they want to have happen.

    I seem to recall his statements weren't very far off.....not 100% accurate, but he was in the right ballpark - given they were written 40 years ago, times may have changed, but not as much as people want to believe.

    I'll have to dig up that study....

    Doctor9
  • ASHDOD

    Posts: 1057

    Jun 01, 2015 9:34 PM GMT
    43 years ago he wrote somthing...

    i''m sure that if you liked him you would forgive anything he said even a year ago [like all the dem who were against gay marrige and changed their mind]
  • irishkcguy

    Posts: 780

    Jun 01, 2015 10:45 PM GMT
    Team Hillary already trying to take Bernie out at the knees.
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    Jun 02, 2015 12:04 AM GMT
    Bernie is an excellent example of the need for term limits.
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    Jun 02, 2015 12:11 AM GMT
    Bernie Sanders has kept the bulk of his positions ( gay rights, women rights, investing back into the American people rather than people in other countries) throughout his political life even when it was not popular.

    He is the exception to term limits.
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    Jun 02, 2015 12:14 AM GMT
    Jasonfest saidBernie Sanders has kept the bulk of his positions ( gay rights, women rights, investing back into the American people rather than people in other countries) throughout his political life even when it was not popular.

    He is the exception to term limits.

    From everything I've heard about him, he is honest and will say what he thinks or believes without worrying about the ramifications. Just the opposite of Hillary. Although his degree of support is pretty small compared to hers, I wonder if the honesty contrast is a concern to Hillary's team.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Jun 02, 2015 3:25 AM GMT
    Except it was not an "essay."
    It was a piece of fiction.

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    Jun 02, 2015 3:59 AM GMT
    KissTheSky saidExcept it was not an "essay."
    It was a piece of fiction.



    Your reading capabilities are astounding.
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    Jun 02, 2015 6:04 AM GMT
    TomSOCAL saidHillary, your second choice, doesn't stand a chance against Bernie in the primaries.


    Bernie is way far to the left of most Americans. The only way for someone like that to get elected nationally is if they hide their ideology really well. Sanders does not, which is refreshing and I wish we only voted for people who were candid, but also means that he won't get elected.

    Sanders will get trounced in the primary. He's running so that his ideas get heard and because he probably doesn't like Hillary very much (and possibly because he hopes that other Democrats will be less reluctant to run against Hillary if there is already someone challenging her). He's this year's Ron Paul and nothing more, and he knows it.
  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Jun 02, 2015 8:12 AM GMT
    Bernie Sanders was unapologetically strong responding to Chuck Todd on 43 year old essay

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/05/31/1389348/-Bernie-Sanders-was-unapologetically-strong-responding-to-Chuck-Todd-on-43-year-old-essay

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    Jun 02, 2015 1:13 PM GMT
    The number of holes that can be blown into this type of story are legion. It isn't worth entertaining, to be honest.

    What is worthy of discussion, however, is the comparison between what a politician like Bernie Sanders does to move America ahead vs. what almost every Republican in Congress is working to destroy.

    Women's rights, individual liberties, U.S. infrastructure, et al have been stripped by Republicans, while corporate welfare is at an all time high thanks to Republican policies.
  • Jeepguy2

    Posts: 164

    Jun 02, 2015 2:01 PM GMT
    credo saidThe number of holes that can be blown into this type of story are legion. It isn't worth entertaining, to be honest.

    What is worthy of discussion, however, is the comparison between what a politician like Bernie Sanders does to move America ahead vs. what almost every Republican in Congress is working to destroy.

    Women's rights, individual liberties, U.S. infrastructure, et al have been stripped by Republicans, while corporate welfare is at an all time high thanks to Republican policies.


    Ok please explain how women's rights been stripped by Republicans? Republicans support individual liberties like the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms that the Democrats desperately want to take away. Most US infrastructure was built by Eisenhower, a Republican. Before Ike built the Interstate highway system the USA was a backwards ass place with a bunch of mostly two lane roads many of which were not even paved. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Jeepguy2

    Posts: 164

    Jun 02, 2015 2:02 PM GMT
    Jeepguy2 said
    credo saidThe number of holes that can be blown into this type of story are legion. It isn't worth entertaining, to be honest.

    What is worthy of discussion, however, is the comparison between what a politician like Bernie Sanders does to move America ahead vs. what almost every Republican in Congress is working to destroy.

    Women's rights, individual liberties, U.S. infrastructure, et al have been stripped by Republicans, while corporate welfare is at an all time high thanks to Republican policies.


    Ok please explain how women's rights been stripped by Republicans? Republicans support individual liberties like the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms that the Democrats desperately want to take away. Most US infrastructure was built by Eisenhower, a Republican. Before Ike built the Interstate highway system the USA was a backwards ass place with a bunch of mostly two lane roads many of which were not even paved.icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Jeepguy2

    Posts: 164

    Jun 02, 2015 2:10 PM GMT
    Jeepguy2 said
    credo saidThe number of holes that can be blown into this type of story are legion. It isn't worth entertaining, to be honest.

    What is worthy of discussion, however, is the comparison between what a politician like Bernie Sanders does to move America ahead vs. what almost every Republican in Congress is working to destroy.

    Women's rights, individual liberties, U.S. infrastructure, et al have been stripped by Republicans, while corporate welfare is at an all time high thanks to Republican policies.


    Ok please explain how women's rights been stripped by Republicans? Republicans support individual liberties like the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms that the Democrats desperately want to take away. Nixon, a Republican, ended the military draft put in place by Democrats that stripped young men of their individual liberties by forcing them to go fight and die in a war they wanted no part of. Most US infrastructure was built by Eisenhower, a Republican. Before Ike built the Interstate highway system the USA was a backwards ass place with a bunch of mostly two lane roads many of which were not even paved. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Hypertrophile

    Posts: 1021

    Jun 02, 2015 2:54 PM GMT
    Ok, time to get back in the Wayback Machine and return to the present. All of the people you mention are dead already.

    Abortion. Women's rights. Gay rights. Guns. Immigration. These are all wedge issues that do little but distract us from the real issues.

    Bernie's response to the question on Meet The Press was brilliant.
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    Jun 02, 2015 2:56 PM GMT
    What next, are we going to start going after folks because they pooped their pants when they were two yrs old, 70 years ago?

    I'm more concerned with the ones so stinkin' old that they're pooping their pants now.

    Although, I'm a card carrying righty, I think it's refreshing to see/hear someone speak their mind and let the pieces fall where they may. I don't agree with much that he says, but I appreciated him having the balls to say it.
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    Jun 02, 2015 4:21 PM GMT
    KJSharp said
    TomSOCAL saidHillary, your second choice, doesn't stand a chance against Bernie in the primaries.


    Bernie is way far to the left of most Americans. The only way for someone like that to get elected nationally is if they hide their ideology really well. Sanders does not, which is refreshing and I wish we only voted for people who were candid, but also means that he won't get elected.

    Sanders will get trounced in the primary. He's running so that his ideas get heard and because he probably doesn't like Hillary very much (and possibly because he hopes that other Democrats will be less reluctant to run against Hillary if there is already someone challenging her). He's this year's Ron Paul and nothing more, and he knows it.


    I do not think that Bernie Sanders is too far to the left for most Americans. Obama ran on a very liberal platform in 2008 and took red states. Hillary Clinton is essentially stealing parts of Obama's 2008 campaign to camouflage as liberal. She is also essentially running against her self; she is now for civil liberty, against the Iraq war, for wide Immigration reform, ect., which are all stances Bernie Sanders held for years.

    A good percent of Americans do not want programs like Social Security to be cut and are OK with taxing the very wealthy to continue paying for such programs.

    The test is Iowa. He needs to start siphoning off Hillary supporters. If he can do that, he might have a real shot.

  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Jun 02, 2015 4:30 PM GMT
    Both Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley are not only the lesser of evils but they are superior candidates which make both of them a hugely massive improvement over the hapless Hillary ho.
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    Jun 02, 2015 4:34 PM GMT


    " "This is a piece of fiction that I wrote in 1972 I think," Sanders said. "That was 43 years ago. It was very poorly written. And if you read it what it was dealing with, gender stereotypes. Why some men like to oppress women. Why other women like to be submissive. Something like 50 Shades of Grey, very poorly written 43 years ago."

    KissTheSky got it right; work of fiction.
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    Jun 02, 2015 5:16 PM GMT
    From Wikipedia: "Essays are generally scholarly pieces of writing giving the author's own argument, but the definition is vague, overlapping with those of an article, a pamphlet and a short story."

    I think this could qualify as an essay. In any case, it is an article using a story as a hook to make a point about gender norms.

    I don't think it is worth having an argument over.

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    Jun 02, 2015 5:43 PM GMT
    That looks like one of those essays kids write when they party and skip school until the day before the essay is due, then whip up something quick.