British Columbia is the only province where new HIV cases are in significant decline in Canada.

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    Jun 04, 2015 12:39 AM GMT
    “If your partner is HIV undetectable on treatment, you have a greater than 95 per cent chance of being protected,” even without use of a condom, he said. The truer estimate is probably much greater than 95 per cent, based on thousands of people studied for several years," said Dr. Julio Montaner. - See more at:

    http://www.timescolonist.com/life/b-c-steps-up-in-hiv-treatment-1.1954392#sthash.z7BYU1Lg.dpuf
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3529

    Jun 06, 2015 2:38 AM GMT
    So statistically 5 out of 100 or 1 in 20, so by the 20th fuck you are HIV positive. That's kind of TERRIBLE, that could be less than a month if you like sex!
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    Jun 06, 2015 3:26 AM GMT
    Much greater than 95%. "Probably zero" chance of infection according to the Partners Study.

    http://www.aidsmap.com/No-one-with-an-undetectable-viral-load-gay-or-heterosexual-transmits-HIV-in-first-two-years-of-PARTNER-study/page/2832748/

    The statement’s headline statement says that “after review of the medical literature and extensive discussion,” the Swiss Federal Commission for HIV / AIDS resolves that, “An HIV-infected person on antiretroviral therapy with completely suppressed viraemia (“effective ART”) is not sexually infectious, i.e. cannot transmit HIV through sexual contact.”

    http://www.aidsmap.com/Swiss-experts-say-individuals-with-undetectable-viral-load-and-no-STI-cannot-transmit-HIV-during-sex/page/1429357/
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    Jun 06, 2015 3:33 AM GMT
    Apparition saidSo statistically 5 out of 100 or 1 in 20, so by the 20th fuck you are HIV positive. That's kind of TERRIBLE, that could be less than a month if you like sex!


    But like Timmm says "it's probably more than 95%" so go ahead and take your chances! I mean, whats the worst that could happen? You getting HIV, but dont worry, taking expensive pills for the rest of your life will solve your little problem.

    Or use your brains and wear a damn condom! (better be safe than sorry)

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    Jun 06, 2015 3:35 AM GMT
    David666k said
    Apparition saidSo statistically 5 out of 100 or 1 in 20, so by the 20th fuck you are HIV positive. That's kind of TERRIBLE, that could be less than a month if you like sex!


    But like Timmm says "it's probably more than 95%" so go ahead and take your chances! I mean, whats the worst that could happen? You getting HIV, but dont worry, taking expensive pills for the rest of your life will solve the little problem.

    Or just use your brains and use a damn condom!

    ;)

    The idiot is back.
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    Jun 06, 2015 3:37 AM GMT
    timmm55 said
    David666k said
    Apparition saidSo statistically 5 out of 100 or 1 in 20, so by the 20th fuck you are HIV positive. That's kind of TERRIBLE, that could be less than a month if you like sex!


    But like Timmm says "it's probably more than 95%" so go ahead and take your chances! I mean, whats the worst that could happen? You getting HIV, but dont worry, taking expensive pills for the rest of your life will solve the little problem.

    Or just use your brains and use a damn condom!

    ;)

    The idiot is back.


    You're the one promoting bareback sex with HIV+ men, as if 95% of effectiviness of a drug was enough of a reason, and Im the idiot icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jun 06, 2015 3:45 AM GMT
    David666k said
    timmm55 said
    David666k said
    Apparition saidSo statistically 5 out of 100 or 1 in 20, so by the 20th fuck you are HIV positive. That's kind of TERRIBLE, that could be less than a month if you like sex!


    But like Timmm says "it's probably more than 95%" so go ahead and take your chances! I mean, whats the worst that could happen? You getting HIV, but dont worry, taking expensive pills for the rest of your life will solve the little problem.

    Or just use your brains and use a damn condom!

    ;)

    The idiot is back.


    You're the one promoting bareback sex with HIV+ men, as if 95% of effectiviness of a drug was enough of a reason, and Im the idiot icon_rolleyes.gif


    If you've read 1/4 of all the TasP findings I've posted you'd know that there are ZERO cases of HIV transmissions from an undetectable person: gay, straight, male, female, top or bottom. That's from several world wide studies and thousands of people.

    Condoms alone are only 70-80% effective.

    David, you're too stupid to have sex.
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    Jun 06, 2015 3:55 AM GMT
    It isn't a question of just using condoms or not. It's everything.

    There are now at least five strategies that reasonably constitute‘safe sex’,provided that certain parameters are met.
    They are:
    1.The use of Condoms during casual encounters between men of unknown or discordant serostatus.
    2.HIV negative men taking effective pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP).
    3.Men living with HIV who only have sex without condoms when they have a sustained undetectable viral load (UVL) and in the absence of sexually transmissible infections (STIs).
    4.Effective use of serosorting between HIV positive men.
    5.Effective negotiated safety agreements.

    http://www.acon.org.au/sites/default/files/What-is-Safe-Sex-Position-2014.pdf
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    Jun 06, 2015 3:55 AM GMT
    ^You're too stupid to realize no one here buys your crap. You are nothing more than RJ's ressident Gift Giver.

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    Jun 06, 2015 3:59 AM GMT
    David666k said
    timmm55 said
    David666k said
    timmm55 said
    David666k said
    Apparition saidSo statistically 5 out of 100 or 1 in 20, so by the 20th fuck you are HIV positive. That's kind of TERRIBLE, that could be less than a month if you like sex!


    But like Timmm says "it's probably more than 95%" so go ahead and take your chances! I mean, whats the worst that could happen? You getting HIV, but dont worry, taking expensive pills for the rest of your life will solve the little problem.

    Or just use your brains and use a damn condom!

    ;)

    The idiot is back.


    You're the one promoting bareback sex with HIV+ men, as if 95% of effectiviness of a drug was enough of a reason, and Im the idiot icon_rolleyes.gif


    If you've read 1/4 of all the TasP findings I've posted you'd know that there are ZERO cases of HIV transmissions from an undetectable person: gay, straight, male, female, top or bottom. That's from several world wide studies and thousands of people.

    Condoms alone are only 70-80% effective.

    David, you're too stupid to have sex.


    You're too stupid to realize no one here buys your crap. You are nothing more than RJ's ressident Gift Giver.


    Bug chasers don't want me, they know better. How does it feel to be dumber than a bug chaser, David? Who is magically 6'0" now LOL
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    Jun 06, 2015 4:23 AM GMT
    lol @ your desperation with this topic. You keep trying and trying...failing contanstly, now hiding behind empty insults.

    It only takes people to read your many pro-barebacking posts to tell your true colors, you're transparent as hell.

    Guys: take care of yourselves, don't trust random men on their statuses (neg, undetectable, etc) they might be lying. HIV is still a serious incurable disease. If you don't wanna end up like Timmm just wear a condom and save yourselves the trouble.
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    Jun 06, 2015 4:27 AM GMT
    The landmark Partner study that everyone is talking about—which tracked HIV transmission risk through condomless sex if the HIV-positive partner is on suppressive antiretroviral medication—has so far found not even one case of an HIV-positive person with an undetectable viral load transmitting the virus to a partner. But people in your everyday life may still be a little disbelieving. (or in David's case totally ignorant and stigmatizing).


    “The most common response I get from disbelievers is that positive men use ‘undetectable’ as a way of getting people to sleep with them without a condom,” says Tyler Curry, an editor with the new group HIV Equal, who has written about his frustration with gay men still ignorant about what it means to be undetectable. “Positive men don’t want to transmit the virus to someone who is negative just as much as a negative person doesn’t want to become positive,” Curry emphasizes.

    http://www.hivplusmag.com/sex-dating/2014/09/15/undetectable-new-safe-sex

    I've taken it a step further, per the ACON statement:
    3.Men living with HIV who only have sex without condoms when they have a sustained undetectable viral load (UVL) and in the absence of sexually transmissible infections (STIs).
    4.Effective use of serosorting between HIV positive men.


    I no longer deal with negative men. Considering the criminalization and ignorance out there it's too dangerous.

    I only serosort with other undetectable men.
    Why? They are tested regularly, every 3-4 months. They are less likely to have STDs. They have less hangups, they know what they are (especially NOT) capable of.

    People like David will ensure another 50K cases in the US this year yet again. Now it mostly originates from young gay men who don't know their status. They 'think' they are negative. The ones who proudly say "DDF", "Neg as of 6/12/14", "Safe Only" and then rely on a condom with a failure rate of 20-30%.

    I would suggest they don't have anal sex at all, but they will.
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    Jun 06, 2015 4:45 AM GMT
    David666k saidlol @ your desperation with this topic. You keep trying and trying...failing contantly, now hiding behind empty insults.

    It only takes people to read your many pro-barebacking posts to tell your true colors, you're transparent as hell.

    Guys: take care of yourselves, don't trust random men on their statuses (neg, undetectable, etc) they might be lying. HIV is still a serious incurable disease. If you don't wanna end up like Timmm just wear a condom and save yourselves the trouble.


    I'm not desperate at all, at least not in the way you think. I am desperate to see the end of AIDS in my lifetime. There is a 2020 plan for NY and San Francisco .....both of which use TasP as a cornerstone to bring an end to this 3 decades old tragedy. There are more allo ver the world. All include Tasp (Treatment as Prevention)

    https://medicine.ucsf.edu/images/time-aids.pdf
    http://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/aids/ending_the_epidemic/
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    Jun 06, 2015 5:40 PM GMT
    TomSOCAL said
    Apparition saidSo statistically 5 out of 100 or 1 in 20, so by the 20th fuck you are HIV positive. That's kind of TERRIBLE, that could be less than a month if you like sex!


    Timmmm lives in a place of promiscuity, Palm Springs, California, so for some who do like sex, those first 20 encounters could come within a week or so.

    Guys this is a very serious disease. PLEASE use a condom ALL the time.

    Not only does Palm Springs have high rates of promiscuity, they also have inadequate medical services and not enough HIV testing. The situation was so bad that the State of California had to set up its own clinic, in Palm Springs, through UC-Riverside and First Choice Physician Partners.

    FCPP, is a horrible organization that does not even allow physicians to sue their providers for malpractice.

    If someone is gay, we're best served to stay in LA or San Diego Counties if you can afford Southern California . . . Palm Springs has a lot of problems.

    David666k saidlol @ your desperation with this topic. You keep trying and trying...failing contantly, now hiding behind empty insults.

    It only takes people to read your many pro-barebacking posts to tell your true colors, you're transparent as hell.

    Guys: take care of yourselves, don't trust random men on their statuses (neg, undetectable, etc) they might be lying. HIV is still a serious incurable disease. If you don't wanna end up like Timmm just wear a condom and save yourselves the trouble.


    They do lie. They probably lie to people based on appearance and how charming they are.

    Lots more HIV / STD / drug addiction medical services in either West Hollywood or in Las Vegas compared to Palm Springs. You'll be much safer there. I wouldn't advise Palm Springs except as a tourist stop to look at the very interesting architecture and urban planning. The town, is not currently holding the inhabitants that it was originally designed for. The property owners, do not agree with the gay lifestyle.

    Vegas is actually the cheapest place for a one bedroom apartment in the southwest. Probably the best place for affordability.


    DAP (Desert AIDS Project) is one of the best Gay services I've seen.
    https://www.desertaidsproject.org/preventing-hiv/

    o.jpg
    They have their own campus. And housing next door. Their own pharmacy. It's impressive, well funded, but heavily bureaucratic.
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    Jun 06, 2015 6:16 PM GMT
    I think it's pretty safe to say San Francisco is a fairly promiscuous town, as is Palm Springs. As is any Gay vacation city.

    "In San Francisco there are relatively few new HIV infections — 359 in 2013 and overwhelmingly found in gay men. It’s a number that has been falling over the past eight years. But new infections haven’t gone away.

    Today, public health officials, doctors, and activists are increasing their efforts to bring that number all the way down to zero."

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/san-francisco-plans-get-zero-new-infections-hiv/

    And the trend has been going down since TasP and PrEP. Thanks to RAPID, SF is getting people into treatment ASAP and getting them to undetectable sooner. Certainly people should, and do, use condoms. But condoms had 20+ years to show it's effectiveness. As THE exclusive form of protection it is imperfect. Why hasn't it worked? As one time prevention method it is 70-80%.....not all that good. But for decades it's all we had. There is no community benefit. (How is that, you say? Condoms are one time use only. Use it once you are protected. But the next time if you forget it, it breaks, or slips, that protection is over. Instead of a safety net like TasP or PrEP, you get a single rope with condoms.)

    As for the 1 in 20 that's ridiculous.
    There have been thousands of people in discordant couples (one + one -) and again, ZERO transmissions. Study after study has proven this. But scientists generally don't guarantee anything is 100% effective. They can only talk in probabilities, and as they have said "probably" zero. The Swiss Statement was more forceful, saying ""An HIV-infected person on antiretroviral therapy with completely suppressed viraemia (“effective ART”) is not sexually infectious, i.e. cannot transmit HIV through sexual contact.”
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    Jun 06, 2015 6:37 PM GMT
    As for crime in PS (Tom why do you always change the subject?) it rates a 6. We Ho a 9. Las Vegas rated a 13, 100 being best.

    But PS crime is largely property, violent crime is 5.68, WeHo 6.35, LV violent crime is 7.88.

    Tom, it would behoove you to look at this site before you mention your opinions, as they are biased.
    http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/west-hollywood/crime/
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    Jun 06, 2015 6:40 PM GMT
    http://firstchoicedocs.com/

    Is in La Quinta. Fact checking your information is a breeze!
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    Jun 07, 2015 2:57 PM GMT

    Timm, HIV rates may be coming down, but condoms are still necessary!!

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/syphilis-rates-soar-in-vancouver-as-testing-urged-for-men-who-have-sex-with-men/article20166638/

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    Jun 07, 2015 7:22 PM GMT
    TomSOCAL said
    timmm55 saidAs for crime in PS (Tom why do you always change the subject?) it rates a 6. We Ho a 9. Las Vegas rated a 13, 100 being best.

    But PS crime is largely property, violent crime is 5.68, WeHo 6.35, LV violent crime is 7.88.

    Tom, it would behoove you to look at this site before you mention your opinions, as they are biased.
    http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/west-hollywood/crime/


    Palm Springs ranks in the 600's on City-Data.Com

    Compare that to most liberal college towns than are 300 or less.

    99 officers are not enough for palm springs. But city has many financial problems so they don't hire more officers.

    Scottsdale, Palm Springs' rival, has 500 officers.


    Per your own source it is NOT 600! It was 319 in 2010 and 393 in 2014.

    Scottsdale isn't a rival. I couldn't live in AZ, it's too Republican and a police state. We probably could use more police in PS. CA in general is low.
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    Jun 07, 2015 7:37 PM GMT
    You can post all of the studies you want, but one question remains the same......are you going to trust the word of a stranger that he has an undetectable viral load? Unless this is your monogamous life partner and you go to the doctor with him and see his paperwork, none of this shit even matters in real life.
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    Jun 07, 2015 8:28 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Timm, HIV rates may be coming down, but condoms are still necessary!!

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/syphilis-rates-soar-in-vancouver-as-testing-urged-for-men-who-have-sex-with-men/article20166638/



    I'm not anti-condom. I'm pro-options.

    from your link:
    "Gustafson said transmission doesn’t necessarily involve intercourse because the disease can be passed on through oral sex or close skin-to-skin contact."

    I'm not sure why syphilis is up in Vancouver. If on PrEP or ART you are tested every 3-4 months. But this is a clue "“Our syphilis outbreak right now in Vancouver is affecting adult men, and a disproportionate rate are HIV-positive — about 69 per cent. Men who are HIV-positive typically have sex with other men who are similarly." I wonder if they are not on ART? If tested often, and I assume STDs as well, the undetectable group should have less STDs.



    "What we are left with is the question of whether we are willing to let adults be in charge of their own health. Women now have the choice of which contraception to use. It's time to encourage at-risk individuals to make the same kind of serious decisions about their own bodies."

    http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/30594-we-can-end-the-hiv-epidemic-if-we-want-to
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    Jun 07, 2015 9:13 PM GMT
    Radd saidYou can post all of the studies you want, but one question remains the same......are you going to trust the word of a stranger that he has an undetectable viral load? Unless this is your monogamous life partner and you go to the doctor with him and see his paperwork, none of this shit even matters in real life.


    No of course not, a stranger? I don't and you don't.

    But people everywhere believe a stranger when they say he is negative all the time. I'd bet a majority of the 50,000 new infections a year. If a man says he is POZ (anything after that is ignored) rejection is the norm. At least from uninformed people. So if someone is disclosing they are POZ it's a point of honesty. And he is open to talk about it....if you haven't run away already!

    OK yeah, he "says" he is undetectable. You scoff. But he's already told you he's positive. He's told you something that is guaranteed to put someone like you on alert. You could ask what his numbers are. How often he gets tested. Has he ever had a blip. I have my results scanned and on my smart phone.

    Here's what happens in the "real world" the undetectable person.....like me......isn't going to put themselves through that drill. You're right in that "none of this shit even matters in real life." I don't "do" Negative. It's too much work. I serosort with other POZ guys. We can be totally honest with each other.

    In a way it is a relief. We don't have to worry about becoming POZ because we already are. We know the same doctors, the same studies, we know things about HIV you don't bother with. Instead of a wedge it brings us together. There's a camaraderie there you could never understand.

    That's why there is a big push for PrEP. It's pretty much a given that Negative men will never be comfortable with anyone who is POZ, undetectable or not. HIV is divided and is being confronted on 2 fronts. For people like you and for people like me.

    You need to be protected from people like you, not from people like me.
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    Jun 07, 2015 10:18 PM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Radd saidYou can post all of the studies you want, but one question remains the same......are you going to trust the word of a stranger that he has an undetectable viral load? Unless this is your monogamous life partner and you go to the doctor with him and see his paperwork, none of this shit even matters in real life.

    If a man says he is POZ (anything after that is ignored) rejection is the norm. At least from uninformed people. So if someone is disclosing they are POZ it's a point of honesty. And he is open to talk about it....if you haven't run away already!

    OK yeah, he "says" he is undetectable. You scoff. But he's already told you he's positive. He's told you something that is guaranteed to put someone like you on alert. You could ask what his numbers are. How often he gets tested. Has he ever had a blip. I have my results scanned and on my smart phone.


    This is ridiculous. No smartphone pictures of tests or anything is worth risking your health for one fuck. This is what you fail to see, Tim. Barebacking is not enough of a reason not to wear a condom with a stranger, ever it doesn't matter what they say about their status or viral load. Why flirting with disaster? If you care about your health wear a condom during hook ups, as simple as that.
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    Jun 08, 2015 1:09 AM GMT
    David666k said
    timmm55 said
    Radd saidYou can post all of the studies you want, but one question remains the same......are you going to trust the word of a stranger that he has an undetectable viral load? Unless this is your monogamous life partner and you go to the doctor with him and see his paperwork, none of this shit even matters in real life.

    If a man says he is POZ (anything after that is ignored) rejection is the norm. At least from uninformed people. So if someone is disclosing they are POZ it's a point of honesty. And he is open to talk about it....if you haven't run away already!

    OK yeah, he "says" he is undetectable. You scoff. But he's already told you he's positive. He's told you something that is guaranteed to put someone like you on alert. You could ask what his numbers are. How often he gets tested. Has he ever had a blip. I have my results scanned and on my smart phone.


    This is ridiculous. No smartphone pictures of tests or anything is worth risking your health for one fuck. This is what you fail to see, Tim. Barebacking is not enough of a reason not to wear a condom with a stranger, ever it doesn't matter what they say about their status or viral load. Why flirting with disaster? If you care about your health wear a condom during hook ups, as simple as that.


    David, if condoms worked that well, we wouldn't have had an epidemic. Condoms have had 30 years. With no end in sight. Not until antivirals came along was there a change.

    They aren't bad, they need additional risk reduction methods like PrEP.

    It's 100% up to you to decide what you are willing to use for protection. If it's condoms only you are putting yourself at risk.

    A smartphone pic is only a part of a conversation. Not a hookup. You'd obviously never have sex with someone who was POZ. And that's your prerogative, just as I don't want the problems negative people cause.

    I have posted the ACON guidelines several times.
    It's only 5 things.

    There are now at least five strategies that reasonably constitute‘safe sex’,provided that certain parameters are met.
    They are:
    1.The use of Condoms during casual encounters between men of unknown or discordant serostatus.
    2.HIV negative men taking effective pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP).
    3.Men living with HIV who only have sex without condoms when they have a sustained undetectable viral load (UVL) and in the absence of sexually transmissible infections (STIs).
    4.Effective use of serosorting between HIV positive men.
    5.Effective negotiated safety agreements.

    http://www.acon.org.au/sites/default/files/What-is-Safe-Sex-Position-2014.pdf

    You and I agree with #1, do we not?

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    Jun 08, 2015 1:37 AM GMT
    ^ Sometimes I wonder if you're really that stupid or if you're missing the point on purpose.

    Condoms aren't 100% effective, but PrEP isn't 100% effective either- Now why would anybody substitute condoms for an expensive drug you have to take daily? Of course in your mind barebacking with strangers is a big reason to do that but for most of us, it's not.

    Do you really think that men that doesn't care enough to wear a condom are going to take PrEP correctly??? Taking the correct pills every day at the right time, etc? Wishful thinking. And even if they did, they will eventually get infected because the drug is not 100% effective. That's why condoms should always go along with PrEP, to make up for that 5% lack of effectiveness.

    Suggesting otherwise, or being "pro-choise" (LOL) says a lot about you. Basically, same old story with you.