A Gambit for people who believe in socialism.

  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Jun 04, 2015 7:04 AM GMT
    "From each according to their abilities; to each according to their need."

    I won't complain about you taking the money I worked hard to make... to feed the homeless, the winos and the poor....

    ...IF....

    According to your abilities, all of you socialists start providing sex taking care of the sexual needs of the homeless, the winos and the poor...

    Fair deal?

    laughing-smiley-face.gif
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jun 04, 2015 7:13 AM GMT
    in the zero-sum world in which we live, conservative economics always loses, ALWAYS

    show me a case in which it didn't, and I'll show you either a revolution or a failed nation
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Jun 04, 2015 7:54 AM GMT
    tj85016 saidin the zero-sum world in which we live, conservative economics always loses, ALWAYS

    show me a case in which it didn't, and I'll show you either a revolution or a failed nation


    Bullshit. You have it backwards. There's never been a free market that's failed.

    Free markets have never failed and never will. They only get screwed up when governments try to manipulate them. Did you know that under free markets monopolies have never been able to survive? They can't without the protection and sometimes partnership of the government. They survived even in the USSR and were bigger than the socialist economy after the 1970s. They still exist and are growing in China in spite of everything. I don't know about North Korea.

    There's never been a socialist nation or experiment that hasn't failed. Karl Marx admitted that they couldn't. To summarize what he said, a socialist society would have to parasitize a 'captive' free market if it intended to grow and not rely on other measures like conquering other nations to exploit their resources.

    Most people don't realize socialism played a big part in the weakness that preceded the fall of the western Roman Empire, thanks to Diocletian. He ruined the economy so bad in just 20 years it never recovered before the Goths invaded 100 years later.

    Here's a primer on Diocletian. I have the whole collection of the books referenced in it by Will & Ariel Durant who themselves were progressives but did not let that keep them from being honest historians about socialism.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/cashin-gartman-diocletians-lessons-central-planning

    Here's a link from Colorado State.
    http://lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/socialismprimer.html


    Here's a good one... What would the last Emperor of Rome have written to Obama.
    http://moneymorning.com/2012/08/15/what-last-roman-emperor-would-tell-president-obama-today/

    This shit isn't new. It's all the same game.


  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jun 04, 2015 5:28 PM GMT
    ^^

    there is no such thing as a "free market", never has been and never will be

    I guess your idea of a free market includes slave labor, tariffs, protectionism, military use of force and bribery

    to even suggest there has been a free market is laughable
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    Jun 04, 2015 6:03 PM GMT
    tj85016 said^^

    there is no such thing as a "free market", never has been and never will be

    I guess your idea of a free market includes slave labor, tariffs, protectionism, military use of force and bribery

    to even suggest there has been a free market is laughable

    This is so true.
    I spent over a decade as a floor trader on the stock exchange in New York and I know a thing or two about markets.
    They are all rigged, one way or another.
    All
    Of
    Them.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jun 04, 2015 7:49 PM GMT
    ^^Precisely.

    From a legal perspective, when people say there is a "free market" in America or ANY nation in the modern era we simply roll our eyes and laugh.

    Free markets, as most people refer to them, would simply be the state of nature--which is might makes right. There'd be no rule of law.

    Once you add the rule of law, you make a priori rights and have, in at least common law, a priori "regulations"--if not by name.

    Someone burn your business down? You may sue them, and if proven guilty, they must pay. A free market doesn't allow you to sue someone who has burned down your castle. Someone commit insider trading and manipulate the market? Sue them, heck bring a class action shareholders suit. If you prove your case, then you get compensation because insider trading is illegal.

    The idea of a 'free market' in the modern era is as laughable as BobBobBob's ramblings.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Jun 05, 2015 7:08 PM GMT
    Svnw688 said^^Precisely.

    From a legal perspective, when people say there is a "free market" in America or ANY nation in the modern era we simply roll our eyes and laugh.

    Free markets, as most people refer to them, would simply be the state of nature--which is might makes right. There'd be no rule of law.

    Once you add the rule of law, you make a priori rights and have, in at least common law, a priori "regulations"--if not by name.

    Someone burn your business down? You may sue them, and if proven guilty, they must pay. A free market doesn't allow you to sue someone who has burned down your castle. Someone commit insider trading and manipulate the market? Sue them, heck bring a class action shareholders suit. If you prove your case, then you get compensation because insider trading is illegal.

    The idea of a 'free market' in the modern era is as laughable as BobBobBob's ramblings.


    Free markets have survived socialism and always will. In the 1970s pencil pushers in the USSR estimated their free market economy was 60% of their economy. The word estimated is important because they'd put into law so many draconian measures to suppress entrepreneurism they could not do anything but estimate it. It wasn't their inept central planning that was importing blue jeans, car batteries that didn't leak, toilet paper, rock and roll music, and even paper plates for free market food vendors.

    It was the men and women who took the risks in spite of the socialist suppression of the free market system.

    Now go go look at socialist sub-economies that have survived in a free market society the same way free markets have survived socialism. There are none because socialism cannot exist without government. Socialism has to be imposed one the economy by governments. Socialism cannot sustain itself. As I've said in here several times, even Karl Marx conceded socialism is incapable of sustaining itself. Read.

    As for your lame brain assertion that under free markets there's no rule of law. That's just one more of your ridiculous lies and you know it.

    The bullshit you wrote about not being able to sue under free markets if someone destroys your property is just one more of your idiotic lies - trying to push that socialist mantra. All you have to do is look at history to know that.

    But getting back on topic, one of the best examples of how absurd hypocrisy of socialism is in the OP. Go practice socialist sex - go apply your abilities to provide sex to those who need it, mainly the guys at homeless shelters, the one living under bridges, or any of them you find repulsive. It's against human nature, isn't it? So is socialism.

  • Apparition

    Posts: 3529

    Jun 06, 2015 1:26 AM GMT
    your argument is illogical "you can sue without government.." Exactly how? Where? Your free market involves just as much government.

    A truly free market involves having an ARMY to protect you, not a government. In a free market you are free to kill people and take their stuff, just like a typical video game or dungeons and dragons adventure. You must pay your guards enough that they think the wages are better than just killing you and taking your stuff. THAT is the only free market. Free markets dont work, have never worked, and never will work. As proven by the fact that "all systems have failed" eventually throughout history. The most recent ones will fail too.

    One example of communism that is and always has been successful is a psychosis based, small group culture, with no outsiders, based on agrarianism. The Amish are pretty much the model that is the only successful one in existence. If you eliminate travel of long distances, you eliminate social friction, and survival of the group is more successful. The psychosis keeps crime and rebellion at a minimum.

    On a larger scale, the only successful system will be a socialist freemarket, where needs are met by the group and wants are met by the market.

    Startrek would also work, but requires free energy, as well as matter replication which we dont have yet, since at that point you can make anything you want yourself and nobody can ever get rich off of you because they have nothing you cant provide on your own. Other than medical care I guess. Even the holodeck takes care of your sexual situation.
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    Jun 06, 2015 1:31 AM GMT
    I've had sex with a poor wino homeless guy.
    Next question?
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Jun 06, 2015 3:17 AM GMT


    Exactly where do you get the idea that free market implies no government exists?

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    Jun 06, 2015 3:29 AM GMT
    bobbobbob said

    Exactly where do you get the idea that free market implies no government exists?

    I'd enjoy "free market" better if it were kinda like a dollar store where everything is free.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jun 06, 2015 3:38 AM GMT
    tj85016 saidthere is no such thing as a "free market", never has been and never will be


    Truth. At best, there is laissez faire, which is not a "free market" in the strictest sense of the definition.
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    Jun 06, 2015 4:06 AM GMT
    bobbobbob said Go practice socialist sex - go apply your abilities to provide sex to those who need it, mainly the guys at homeless shelters, the one living under bridges, or any of them you find repulsive. It's against human nature, isn't it? So is socialism.

    This "logic" is the sort of thing considered clever by the morons of the right. It's facile, it sounds good, and it's utter nonsense. Like they said about Newt Gingrich, a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like.
    God, you're a dim bulb.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Jun 06, 2015 2:47 PM GMT
    coolarmydude said
    tj85016 saidthere is no such thing as a "free market", never has been and never will be


    Truth. At best, there is laissez faire, which is not a "free market" in the strictest sense of the definition.


    However, "free markets" as some in here are doing their best to imply I've meant do exist and governments create them as unintended consequences. The US prohibition of liquor created a free market for criminals on liquor. The illicit drug industry is the same way.

    The bottom line, in my view and the views of many, is the government needs to spend more time on regulating itself than then economy.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jun 08, 2015 1:34 AM GMT
    bobbobbob said
    coolarmydude said
    tj85016 saidthere is no such thing as a "free market", never has been and never will be


    Truth. At best, there is laissez faire, which is not a "free market" in the strictest sense of the definition.


    However, "free markets" as some in here are doing their best to imply I've meant do exist and governments create them as unintended consequences. The US prohibition of liquor created a free market for criminals on liquor. The illicit drug industry is the same way.


    That's not a free market. There are legal consequences, many times severe, when caught.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Jun 08, 2015 1:54 AM GMT


    From wiki:
    A free market is a market system in which the prices for goods and services are set freely by consent between vendors and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting, monopoly, or other authority.

    Governments may arrest people and shut down people who participate in shadow economies. That's all. The markets themselves continue unregulated by government.

    It's splitting hairs, I know. The point is that there's been no time in no economy that a government has been able to eradicate entrepreneurism. On the flip side of that you'd be searching for a century to find a socialist shadow economy that would even need suppressing by a government before it burned out.

    One can sustain itself without the help of government; the other can't. That's one reason why governments like socalism - unlimited job security for government because the economy (and the people) are dependent on it.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jun 08, 2015 5:30 PM GMT
    Prohibition created a BLACKMARKET.

    Government INTERVENTION would result since, unless on the DL, the market participants would suffer arrests. Then the "lucky" ones not arrested would have to factor in the RISK/PRICE of detection/arrest into the black market. That is not a free market, and that blackmarket would factor in the price of the risk and non-detection methods.

    Your understanding of macroeconomics is abysmal. Again, if you interpose any government and legal a priori rights then, per se, NO "free market" exists. You can have a less regulated (capitalism) or a more regulated (communism) market, but not a truly free market with any government law or common law right or enforcement.

    And you still are a bigot because you call openly proud gay men "queen," "sissy," "queer" and "faggot." Bigotry is not a pretty color on anyone, least of all you.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Jun 08, 2015 5:49 PM GMT


    ((((Yawn))))

    Nothing going on here but a pissy little skinny lying ballerina queen trying to be a one song diva.

    Same shit. Different Day.