The growing Generational Divide of RJ

  • cityguy39

    Posts: 967

    Jan 27, 2009 12:52 PM GMT
    Am I the only one starting to sense this? I like fluff sometimes as much as the next guy. I have even posted my fair share of fluff topics here over the years. Maybe I just don't the popularity of the guy above threads or the who's hotter etc. Maybe I'm just out of the loop so to speak. Do you guys think RJ is starting to part like the Red Sea.
  • TallGWMvballe...

    Posts: 1925

    Jan 27, 2009 6:10 PM GMT
    Starting ?

    I have been shocked since I started with RJ in 2007 about how many younger guys do not identify and even appear to be hateful towards older men here. Then there's the sad, angry racism, and religious fervor that has further divided us. Perhaps we could all try harder to find topics which promote cooperation rather than division, discuss that which we all share as Gay athletes. Watch "Milk" to get a glimpse of what some of us have had to endure in the past so that current young people can dance in the streets in underwear and fill the bars and clubs with little concern for being harassed and losing their jobs or being beaten, robbed or killed.
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    Jan 27, 2009 6:13 PM GMT

    Welcome the future definition of "Community". icon_redface.gif

    I'm just baffled as to how the younger generation finds beauty in sarcasm and arrogance. There is just no beauty in there. Yes, I am old schooled, conservative and full of love. I just know where I should associate myself to. icon_cool.gif
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    Jan 27, 2009 6:20 PM GMT
    TallGWMvballer saidStarting ?

    I have been shocked since I started with RJ in 2007 about how many younger guys do not identify and even appear to be hateful towards older men here. Then there's the sad, angry racism, and religious fervor that has further divided us. Perhaps we could all try harder to find topics which promote cooperation rather than division, discuss that which we all share as Gay athletes. Watch "Milk" to get a glimpse of what some of us have had to endure in the past so that current young people can dance in the streets in underwear and fill the bars and clubs with little concern for being harassed and losing their jobs or being beaten, robbed or killed.


    You are right. In the same breath older generations need to respect the energy and courage of the younger generations who continue to fight for those rights. It is easy to compare today's struggle to the past and say that back then gay people had it worse. Gay people are still in a bad situation and it is the new generation that has taken the lead by having the courage to be more open (thanks to past struggles) with their sexuality in the face of continued discrimination.

    Gay people are still harassed, lose their jobs, are beaten, robbed and killed.
    The past movements are only a chapter in the ongoing struggle. We are all part of the same story.

    Respect for the courage of past generations and an open mind and support for the current movement is essential in healing the generational divide.
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    Jan 27, 2009 6:24 PM GMT
    ZiMsTeR said
    Welcome the future definition of "Community". icon_redface.gif

    I'm just baffled as to how the younger generation finds beauty in sarcasm and arrogance. There is just no beauty in there. Yes, I am old schooled, conservative and full of love. I just know where I should associate myself to. icon_cool.gif


    Hey zim,
    Rather than generalize the negative attributes of the current generation, why not point out the strengths and encourage further development. Your generalization is based in the same sarcasm and arrogance you criticize.

    I know many bright, energetic, innovative, and kind gay youth who work tirelessly for glbt rights. Lets not destroy what we worked so hard to gain.
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    Jan 27, 2009 6:25 PM GMT
    Just mostly the younger ones on here, I mean. Btw, who are the current generation?

    ulises saidRather than generalize the negative attributes of the current generation, why not point out the strengths and encourage further development.


    Words of the wisdom to today's youth, I say.
  • TallGWMvballe...

    Posts: 1925

    Jan 27, 2009 6:29 PM GMT
    Ulises


    You are right. In the same breath older generations need to respect the energy and courage of the younger generations who continue to fight for those rights. It is easy to compare today's struggle to the past and say that back then gay people had it worse. Gay people are still in a bad situation and it is the new generation that has taken the lead by having the courage to be more open (thanks to past struggles) with their sexuality in the face of continued discrimination.

    Gay people are still harassed, lose their jobs, are beaten, robbed and killed.
    The past movements are only a chapter in the ongoing struggle. We are all part of the same story.

    Respect for the courage of past generations and an open mind and support for the current movement is essential in healing the generational divide.




    YES, as we get older most of us see age as LESS of a difference and I am encouraged by the many great young people who are not hateful and DO help us all but the OP was about the dived.
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    Jan 27, 2009 6:45 PM GMT
    ZiMsTeR said
    Welcome the future definition of "Community". icon_redface.gif

    I'm just baffled as to how the younger generation finds beauty in sarcasm and arrogance. There is just no beauty in there. Yes, I am old schooled, conservative and full of love. I just know where I should associate myself to. icon_cool.gif


    But lots of older gay men have traditionally enjoyed being bitchy, sarcastic and arrogant, and some of them still do.

    I think on this site, it tends to be a bit different (less literate and sophisticated, and perhaps less nasty) than what older gay men may associate as that bitchy kind of gay humor. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. (Or, The more things change, the more they remain the same.) But it's in that tradition.

    Personally, I've never been a big fan of bitchy humor, though when I feel like it, I think I can be pretty good at it. I pretty much choose not to indulge in it, but it can be tempting.
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    Jan 27, 2009 6:46 PM GMT
    The current generation in the context of this thread is anyone who continues to struggle to gain fairness, equality and justice for GLBT community. I know that as an old (not that oldicon_biggrin.gif) activist, my drive and level of participation has dwindled quite a bit. College and HS kids are taking over the fight. Not disregarding older men who are still giving it their all. The actions of these kids will determine the future.
    The struggles of the past were meant to make things better for future generations. I think the division arises when the newer generations seem to take their rights and freedoms for granted. These constitutional protections are taken for granted by non oppressed populations all the time. After all they are "rights". i think the paradox is that the beauty of the past struggles was so that human right would be a give for GLBT's not an option. When we see these kids being more confident and secure in these right we want to burst that bubble and bring them back to the past struggle. They are starting the race a a different point in history therefore their attitudes will and should be different.
    I heard an African American man comparing Obama to Martin Luther King and Marcus Garvey. He was angry that Obama was of mixed decent and Ivy league educated. He though that did not represent the AA struggle in America.

    Obama is part of the same struggle. The fact that he was able to get an Ivy League education and rise to the presidency speaks volumes. I don't think. Yes he is more confident and he takes the fact that he does not have to use a separate bathroom for granted. this does not diminish the past or the current struggles.
    Unity comes by honoring the past and embracing the future. Wallowing in criticism and generalizations is divisive. Instead provide the RJ community with suggestions of your vision and plan of action to improve the lives of the community.


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    Jan 27, 2009 7:02 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]terra22 said[/cite]I'm apart of the younger generation on here.



    More power to you terra!!
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    Jan 28, 2009 3:08 AM GMT
    Well. . . my take re: this site is that nearly all the guys I've talked to or dealt with seem really nice and friendly. I've only run into 3-4 people who were unpleasant or offensive. I notice no difference between younger and older posters.

    Re: "real life", as opposed to "Real Jock". . . that is, what I experience in the outside world. . . if anything, it's a few of the older guys who tend to be bitter or difficult, nearly all the younger guys seem OK.
  • gumbosolo

    Posts: 382

    Jan 28, 2009 3:19 AM GMT
    I'm a young 'un too.

    For our generation, the fight for equality happens in a different way. While a lot of the past generation had to fight for visibility, just asserting the fact that a gay community exists, we have to fight for normalcy and gay not being a big deal. Certainly there's been parts of both in every phase of the fight, but I think the fact that we go about things so differently alienates us a bit.

    I do agree it's important for us to learn the history of our movement. Things sucked for me growing up, and since I never met an openly gay man and my history classes said nothing about Harvey Milk, Stonewall, etc., I didn't know things had ever been worse. Knowing that now, I have a lot of respect for the people who dealt with that. But for my peers, too, who are also trying something new and scary.

    So: forgive us for being young. Remember you had a head start. icon_wink.gif
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    Jan 28, 2009 3:25 AM GMT

    gumbosolo said,
    "So: forgive us for being young. Remember you had a head start."


    ....to add to that, we were once young too, and shouldn't forget that; remembering clearly what it was like keeps us young!

    *walks by the mirror and gives a startled jump. Thinks, "Someone let an old man in my house!"*
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    Jan 28, 2009 3:34 AM GMT
    I'm a Millennial. Most of the guys I respect on here are older guys (>35ish).

    However, do not stereotype the younger generations. If all you see is negativity in the younger sect... that is your problem.... I say that seriously without being bitchy--but more or less concerned.

    We are all human, we are all capable of saying stupid things and having views based on stupid evidence/ideas.

    Another thing, I don't feel I should have to respect the older generation for their struggles and what they did for gay rights. any more than I respect my generation or the generation which fought durning WWII. I respect older generations because I wish to... not because people tell me I should. Older generations have solved problems but have also created problems too for my generation

    But what did you (older gay guys) accomplish? A lot yes, but we do not have full equality yet do we? That falls apon my generation. Instead of complaining about the thugs in my generation... inspire and coach people like me... pass the torch... teach me how to fly so that when you are old and wrinkley and need to be fed through a tube... you can finally marry your partner. :O)

    Do not divide the generational divide anymore than it already is. I watch older guys post things that are immature apathetic and applauing to me. But those are just a few bad apples.
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    Jan 28, 2009 3:37 AM GMT
    meninlove said


    *walks by the mirror and gives a startled jump. Thinks, "Someone let an old man in my house!"*


    OMG OMG THAT'S SO FUNNY!icon_smile.gif
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    Jan 28, 2009 3:51 AM GMT
    I really don't notice a divide. I find inappropriate and extreme behavior has originated in all age groups on here. Anyone who starts pointing at one age group or another needs to take two steps back and objectively look at himself. Far too often we find it so much easier to label a situation and group of people and put them in a box than try to understand where the underlying differences are and how to better understand each other.
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    Jan 28, 2009 4:11 AM GMT
    Personally, I'd like to see more of the so-called Gay Community. Aside from the clubs, bars, and Pride, what do we do? Here in Atlanta there are quite a few Gay-owned and -operated businesses. A few that actually hold events that are outside the range of "hooking up" and "dressing in underwear and facepaint".

    That's what I want to see more of. I want to see an actual community, not a stereotype. I want to see a places and events which encourage community, strength, and support. A place where the younger generation can feel safe and where we all can progress the efforts to reach equality.

    For comparison, my current apartment is just a mile away from the Crown Plaza Ravinia, where the Southern Comfort Conference (SCC) has been held for the past two years. SCC is the South's largest support organization for the Transgendered Community. I was able to attend SCC 2007 as a supporter and they have so much further to go regarding rights and equality but the community is also a lot more close knit.

    I see so many younger Gay people than myself, not really knowing what to do, where to go, "playing dress up", or "acting out", it's a bit distressing. At SCC, I was privileged to meet transgendered men and women in their teens and twenties who had begun their own businesses, finished phds, really knew what they wanted in life. Part of that is because despite the size of the Trans community, they knew where to go for support - physical, mental, emotional, medical, educational. And alot of that is because the older generation of that community is there for the younger...almost like an obligation to see the trans youth through their transition period.

    I look on non-porn Gay sites...and more than half of the outreach programs on any one of them is for AIDS/HIV Support. Is that what the Gay Community is? Where's the support groups? Where's the "You're gay, it's okay, you're not going to burn in hell" groups? Aside from HRC and Lambda Legal (who don't always agree with each other), where's the other "fight for equality" and "raise awareness" groups? Aside from the in-your-face flamboyance that is Pride, what else are we doing for our "community"?

    That's my two cents for now.
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    Jan 28, 2009 4:20 AM GMT
    GuerrillaSodomite saidI really don't notice a divide. I find inappropriate and extreme behavior has originated in all age groups on here. Anyone who starts pointing at one age group or another needs to take two steps back and objectively look at himself. Far too often we find it so much easier to label a situation and group of people and put them in a box than try to understand where the underlying differences are and how to better understand each other.


    I'd agree. Everyone is responsible for making this a positive place.

    What I see as the generational divide is not the way that the generations here are looking to promote gay rights, but the style in which they are communicating. I see this daily at the college I work out. The younger generation is used to texting and everything is a fast communication and sometimes not thought out, or at least easy to misconstrue. Here on line, you don't have the visuals and other non-verbal communication cues to understand things that the poster might mean if you could see him. To someone of my age, it comes off to me as being flippant, whether is was intended or not. I would rather have some more nuanced and thought through thoughts, and that would be good for everyone regardless of age.

    The RJ community works when we all try to make it a better place. Many guys come here with difficult situations, and if we can be a positive, welcoming place, guys will want to participate, and RJers of old who had something good to say will add their $0.02.
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    Jan 28, 2009 4:22 AM GMT
    funny pictures
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    Jan 28, 2009 4:35 AM GMT
    gumbosolo saidWhile a lot of the past generation had to fight for visibility, just asserting the fact that a gay community exists, we have to fight for normalcy and gay not being a big deal.


    No no. All of us are and were fighting for acceptance. The reality is that the goal of it "not being a big deal" is totally impossible without "visibility".

    The legitimisation/liberation dichotomy in my view is a false one.
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    Jan 28, 2009 4:45 AM GMT
    I dont see any generational divide on here that isnt normal for people of disparate ages.
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    Jan 28, 2009 4:49 AM GMT
    I don't feel the divide at all generally speaking. Retards are gonna pop up anywhere you go. Overall its One Big Party on here ...kids are unbelievably friendly. The general tone is way less discriminatory than in real life.
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    Jan 28, 2009 4:49 AM GMT
    I'm one of the quiet ones. So you probably don't recognize me, but I'm here. I mostly read because part of being young is insecure, unknowing and I didn't want to say anything too stupid. The truth was that my mind was going in different directions.

    When I did though, it was usually cool. I wasn't flamed or anything; I was permitted. Although there was this one time where I posted and an older member slammed me. It was about us young kids voting and it bothered me so much. His statement lumped us into this giant unsatisfactory pile of effeminate, flamboyant divas. That was annoying. I got pretty quiet after that and thought about things. It takes a lot of time to find answers.

    But when someone writes about how the 'current generation' is bad and say the good ones work for the LGBTA politically; that leaves a lot of people out. You forget that we don't all have answers. We have questions and we don't understand how to find the answers, but we still have to live. I don't think many of us could survive if we had to shut up in the corner until we were smart. I don't think we'd be able to find the answers to become smart either.

    That was part of why I came on here. I wanted the answers and thought if I could see other gay guys I could, to an extent, understand them and my questions. I was looking for other guys who liked to compete to, but just happened to be gay. Yet I come online and I see this bickering. I don't think I'm the only one who came here hoping for answers of some kind. Although this place isn't meant for that, but I've gone to the LGBTA websites and they aren't either. Neither are places like towleroad, or other blogs I've come across.

    For that reason the gay role model was a really important thread because it asked a good question. For young people who are confused and want just a little guidance it begged the question: "Is there anyone to look too?" That wasn't even what it was meant for, but I saw it and I'm sure I'm not the only one. That is why I came online and all the way to this spot on the internet. I hadn't found the answers anywhere.

    Thats strange too. Everything in the online gay community seems lacking interesting content over what it means to be gay or is over sexualized. LGBTA is one of those organizations that is lacking. Its boring, nothing fun. It might not be supposed to, but for kids with questions where else is there to go? LOGO? Online blogs like joe my god and towleroad? They are more genuine and interesting than the organizations out there, but they are not meant for answers. They do not provide answers, but bring premature conclusions. Real Jock is as close as one can get for answers or guidance from other men about life and how to deal with their homosexuality. You could say that why does that matter? Well, people naturally seek answers from their community. That is what real jock professes itself to be and, to an extent, it looks like one.

    Because, believe it or not, people are always looking up to the older people in the community. Especially on the internet where you don't have to see someone for them to see you. I mean not to be read, but please realize when you remark on the current generation that you are making a huge sweeping realization. That the only thing that you can say in true accuracy about us young real jockers is that we are young. The only thing young real jockers can say in sweeping generalizations is that you are older. If I were to say anything else it would be disrespectful and rude of me because those comments would be wrong. You alienate the people who might just be confused and not admit it.

    While I've been confused about a lot of things when I thought I knew the answers, that is one thing that has always been true. I will not concede that point even if everything else I've written here is pointless after spending so much time writing it. Because I got that idea, that measure of respect, from my dad and from other people who didn't even know I was watching.
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    Jan 28, 2009 4:58 AM GMT
    terra22 saidI'm apart of the younger generation on here.



    At first I thought you were saying that you're not a part of the younger generation on here — that you are apart from them — which I did think was an odd thing for you to say.

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    Jan 28, 2009 4:58 AM GMT
    LGWC saidI'm one of the quiet ones. So you probably don't recognize me, but I'm here. I mostly read because part of being young is insecure, unknowing and I didn't want to say anything too stupid.


    Too late... you just said something STUPID!


    Don't be afriad to post more often. I say stupid things all the time!

    Post your thoughts more! Make your own threads! icon_razz.gif