Gay and Religion.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 27, 2009 1:06 PM GMT
    Hi all,

    I am seeing a guy who is very religious, and he is very worried about having a serious relationship because of it.
    I don't know what to do, because I know this is a very sensitive issue. I really like and and would love to date him. I know he likes me too.

    Anyone has a good suggestions for me? How should I tell / convince him that at least he should give it a try.

    Looking forward for you comments!!

    Thanks so much!!
  • Nykster

    Posts: 4

    Jan 27, 2009 4:52 PM GMT
    Tell him that the Bible says that if a father is broke, he is permitted to sell his daughter as a slave. That's bound to allow him to think for himself.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 27, 2009 5:25 PM GMT
    It is not ok in his religion to have a serious relationship but it is ok to have a casual one? I don't know what religion this guy follows, but I know people who are devoted believers that still have meaningful same-sex relationships. This guy could have any number of reasons to pull this sort of bullshit. Perhaps his religion puts him at odds with his sexuality in general. But more likely he is using it as an excuse to avoid a serious relationship, affirming his sexuality, or breaking up. I would sit down with him and pick at his brain until he cracks.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jan 27, 2009 5:30 PM GMT
    My suggestion is to get to know the guy and initally use some patience.
    I think you need to understand that he may not really be available for "dating" purposes, depending on his religious convictions. Is he resolute?
    exploring?. Is religion something that was pounded into his mind as a kid and is lost without it. Has he a more mature attitude about how it may appropriately fit into his life as an asset, rather than as a stumbling block?

    Go into this one with your eyes open!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 27, 2009 5:35 PM GMT
    Continue to date him and focus on the things that puts you off about him. So you'd be the first to say, "I'm sorry, but I don't think this is working."

    Btw, is he the same long-distance guy you wrote about in April?
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/159953/
    If so, just fuck the hell out of him then dump him. Easy does it!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 27, 2009 6:09 PM GMT
    It is good that you realize what you are getting in to, but you need to use this information to be realistic about your expectations from this guy. He obviously has something that is holding him back, whether it is religion or his own fear of commitment, he is just not ready. While you can certainly try to engage him in discussions to help him through his issues, do not go in expecting a relationship. That would not be fair to you or him. If you really care about him, just be a friend and see where it goes. How friendly you decide to get is up to you, but recognize he is not holding a gun to your head so don't get mad if things don't go the way you would like.

    I think it is commendable that you would like to help him through his issues. Asking questions on RJ is certainly a good start. I would suggest looking up articles on the internet to help you understand the psychology of individuals in his place. Mel White wrote an interesting book on his struggles with religion, and also has a website that you might be able to find more information on. I'm sure other RJ members will have even better resources to recommend to you.

    I can only go by your assessment that it is religion that is holding him back and not something else. Just be aware that sometimes people are not even honest with themselves about what they are going through. However, I have known people who were very religious who dabbled with homosexual relationships, but would not commit due to their religion. While the two ideas seem at odds with each other, you must remember that you are fighting two very powerful forces, your own natural feelings and a desire to be a "normal" member of the religious community. Often times the decisions that result from this do not make sense to anyone but the individual that is struggling with these forces. This is because they are rationalizing a situation in order to obtain the benefits of both worlds. Unfortunately, the rationalizing only leads to inconsistent views and often bad decisions.

    Good luck!


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 28, 2009 1:53 AM GMT
    Thnxs for all of the replies.. I really appreciate it!!

    if you have more suggestions, please share.
    Thanks again
  • gumbosolo

    Posts: 382

    Jan 28, 2009 2:04 AM GMT
    If your guy's Christian, I hear Mel White's book that Creyente mentioned is good-- also Living in Sin? by Bishop John Shelby Spong is very good and was a big help to me.

    What you do after giving him reading material depends on how much you care about this guy. On the one hand, you can offer him the literature, tell him you're going to back off and give him space until he decides one way or the other. On the other hand, you can try to keep whatever level of relationship you have going while he considers his choice. But be aware he's not going to be able to look at you objectively as long as you're close to him. Getting over an inhibition like this takes some time and can be pretty painful.

    There are a lot of happy religions gay people out there. I take it by what you're saying that you're not religious. Support from someone who's been there might help him; if you live in or near a city, see if you can't find a gay-friendly congregation in the area.

    Good luck and be patient with him.
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    Jan 28, 2009 2:31 AM GMT
    ItsMe236 saidAnyone has a good suggestions for me? How should I tell / convince him that at least he should give it a try.

    Would he be open to attending a service with you at another church? St. Louis, MO has an MCC there (Metropolitan Community Church).

    http://www.mccgsl.org/#

    Here's also a list of many gay-friendly churches in your area, including another MCC in Joplin.

    http://www.gaychurch.org/Find_a_Church/united_states/us_missouri.htm

    Instead of religion being a wedge between you, it might become a bond. I attended my very first MCC service in Minneapolis. In the pews all around me sat gay & lesbian couples, in open embrace as the service began. I had never seen anything like that in my old church!

    And the sermon was about gay themes, and gay affirmation. Gays were not outsiders in this church, which followed a very standard Protestant liturgy.

    Then came Communion. And as the couples lined up in the 2 aisles, holding hands and taking Communion together, I totally lost it. I had to flee outside to conceal my crying, and it was a little while before I composed myself and could return, as Communion ended. I attended that MCC a few more times and learned to take a back pew, for easy escape when I got too emotional. I now belong to an MCC here in Fort Lauderdale.

    See if he'll go with you. It might educate him in unexpected ways, both about his religion and about being gay.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 28, 2009 2:47 AM GMT
    Religion is the root of all evil

  • dantoujours

    Posts: 378

    Jan 28, 2009 2:51 AM GMT
    Depends on the religion. It seems to bring out either the best or worst in us.

    Anyway, I am fairly religious and attend a very gay friendly Episcopal (Anglican) Church where most people are both Christian and skeptical. I dated an atheist Jew for many years. Once he understood that no one wanted to convert him and they were completely comfortable with him as he is, he was cool with it.
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    Jan 28, 2009 4:27 AM GMT
    Just from curiousity. How gay-friendly churches teach or tell us differently from the ones that are not?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 28, 2009 4:34 AM GMT
    SouthillsmuscleFL saidReligion is the root of all evil
    Oh thank you for providing some constructive conversation... seems a lot say that gays are the root of all evil.... nice, just bunch them all together.
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    Jan 28, 2009 4:58 AM GMT
    ItsMe236 saidJust from curiousity. How gay-friendly churches teach or tell us differently from the ones that are not?
    Well first you have to understand that gay friendly is not the same as gay accepting. Also, you have to be more specific in your question of what type of religion you're referring to. Christians tend to mostly be gay friendly, at least in the coastal areas of the country, other areas may be a little more conservative. This means that they welcome you but still view homosexuality as a sin but they don't chastise you any more than the person who covets his possessions, or the person who commits adultery. Religion is a very personal thing and usually revolves around family. I think mostly the fear is what family will feel rather than the fact that they see being gay as a sin.

    Being gay and being religious can work. It just a matter of understanding what the inaccurate perceptions some have about what the bible says. They tend to either only listen to others and not research scripture itself or take the literal translation of some verses in the Bible but not others. I true Christian understands and wants to learn more about what the Bible really means in the interpretation of God's word by the prophets.

    The recommendation of being patient and talking about it is a great ideas. Many here have made some great suggestions for you. Talk to him and when he brings up things of confusion or that you don't know or understand, sit together and google them with the idea of looking at it from a gay perspective. The religious right will always have their reason but it can usually be disputed and with good argument

    I'm a practicing Christian who has struggled with this for year and now I'm beginning to understand more, but more importantly I'm seeing the bitterness in many gays. It's understandable, the way they've been treated but unfortunate that there's not more patients with trying to understand what the faithful feel.

    So I agree with others that you need to be patient, talk to your friend, ask him to explain what issues he has, do your research and see if you can open a dialog about spirituality and homosexuality and both learn more.

    Good luck man.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 28, 2009 5:28 AM GMT
    Your guy is a conflicted mess. Don't think that makes him special, it's common. But don't expect him to flip a switch and ta-da his mental chemistry is going to suddenly accept all the conflict between reality and idealism.

    Q1: Can he live with himself if he doesn't live up to his religious ideals.
    A1: Yes - then its not a problem.
    A1: No - ask Q2

    Q2: Do his religious ideals permit gay relationships
    A2: Yes - then its not a problem
    A2: No - he's doomed mentally. The trap is set. GOD has truly given him a challenge to help him grow in some cosmicly necessary way.

    He is already imprinted with religious ideals. I doubt that he needs to go looking for some version of his religion to allow himself to compromise and suddenly accept gayness. The search will not be for his own self-acceptance, it might be very useful so that he can be in a church congregation that shares his acceptance and lessens the social pressure.

    But finding a church with the right attitude on gayness to 'convince' him that it's ok? Don't think that's gonna work. He's already spiritually imprinted.

    That makes me want to ask, "Are there any very religious guys on RJ who were abandoning the idea of being gay, until they stumbled across the right brand of their religion espousing gay acceptance, and then it was ok for them to open up and be gay?"


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 28, 2009 5:42 AM GMT
    4 easy steps to converting the religious gay:

    1. out him to all his religious friends.
    2. they will all turn on him and cast him out.
    3. he will be left grief stricken and confused.
    4. you will be there to pick up the pieces.

    icon_razz.gif
    blink.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 28, 2009 5:46 AM GMT
    blinktwice4y said4 easy steps to converting the religious gay:

    1. out him to all his religious friends.
    2. they will all turn on him and cast him out.
    3. he will be left grief stricken and confused.
    4. you will be there to pick up the pieces.

    icon_razz.gif
    blink.



    I hope that's a joke
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 28, 2009 5:50 AM GMT
    suuuuure.
    yes...
    a joke. that's what it is. a joke.
    icon_razz.gif


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 28, 2009 5:55 AM GMT
    Run away, as fast as you can.
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    Jan 28, 2009 6:58 AM GMT
    ItsMe236 saidHi all,

    I am seeing a guy who is very religious, and he is very worried about having a serious relationship because of it.


    Depends on the religion. Personally, I lean towards Hellenism myself. Eros, Bacchus, Eris... how cool is it to have gods of sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll? We've god gay gods, straight gods, and... well, pretty much gods who'll shag anything.

    Of course, there are plenty of other gay-inclusive religions, too. American Judaism (except for the orthodox), for example, is pretty gay-friendly. Then, of course, most major cities have branches of Unitarians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism)and the MCC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Community_Church). If he's really craving something religious, start by offering to go to one of "his" services and then to a MCC or Unitarian service. It'll give him some of th reassurance of religion without the intolerance.
  • caliboy

    Posts: 81

    Jan 28, 2009 7:16 AM GMT
    Well religion is a touchy subject. I might assure him that you car about him and respect his opinion. Too often its said that were going to hell for being gay, but I just don't think so. If he accepts his sexuality then he could be open to have a relationship and allow himself to love, etc. If he can't open up to you he may never do it. Tell him that you dont want to force him to choose between you and his religion but if he cant open up then how is relationship possible. I think one can be religios and still be gay.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 28, 2009 7:37 AM GMT
    As serious religious homosexual.icon_rolleyes.gif Well why not there has been gay Popes.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 29, 2009 2:59 AM GMT
    Oh god... I'm sorry but I would have moved on the second he said "our lord Jesus". Anyone who is "very religious" is just too much of a basketcase IMO to deal with. You have to listen to their illogical babble, "blind" faith...

    And just as a little tidbit, the bible says the Earth is only a few thousand years old. The sun was created around the same time and it's idiotic to say the least to suggest the sun is less than millions of years old. That alone disproves anything the bible says. And yeah... maybe I am a little harsh but after 7 years of being called a "sinner" for nothing I'd say I'm justified icon_cool.gif
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    Jan 29, 2009 3:09 AM GMT
    ItsMe236 saidJust from curiousity. How gay-friendly churches teach or tell us differently from the ones that are not?

    Gay Christian churches interpret Scripture differently. And rely less on the Old Testament than the New. The Old. after all, endorses slavery, and the subjugation of women, among many other things that are not acceptable in our modern world.

    Yet many Christian denominations "cherry pick" from the New Testament, to support views that I personally suspect are more about the psychological issues of their leaders, than about a rational interpretation of Scripture.

    In any case, consider attending an MCC or gay-friendly church near you, from the list I posted. Then decide if you should invite your friend to attend with you. Religion might bring you together, instead of drive you apart.