Now its time for my fellow "masculine/masc/bro/jocks" to come out of the closet...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 28, 2015 4:48 AM GMT
    Seriously. Straight people are fighting for our rights, politicians are fighting for us, the president and companies are fighting for us, we're knocking down discriminatory laws and mandates down all over the place. "Fem" guys have literally fought, died and sued to get us here. It's time for the NODL train to start down the track.

    God knows it was scary as hell for me and I came out very, very late. But now, we need for my fellow strong and self-proclaimed "not stereotypical/non-scene" guys to acknowledge that they are gay. It doesn't have to define who we are, we don't need to sing it from the mountain top. But we should definitely begin to think about manning up to who we are... guys who like other guys.
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    Jun 28, 2015 4:53 AM GMT
    woodfordr said... guys who like other guys.
    I don't remember the last time I told a new friend I'm gay. I always say "I'm into certain guys" (most of my friends are straight).

    Usually the newbs will ask if that means I'm gay. I just say "no, it means I'd rather jerk off with a hot guy than waste my precious dick on a sloppy snatch."

    You'd be amazed at how effective that line is at getting "straight" guys to be not to straight. icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 29, 2015 1:26 PM GMT
    I'm always amused by the closeted, masc, straight acting gays who are in the closet because "they don't want to be associated with the stereotype effeminate gay man." Don't they realize if the rest of the world sees their oh so macho, masculine gay selves that stereotype will change?

    If you ain't part of the solution you're part of the problem.
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    Jun 29, 2015 1:48 PM GMT
    let your self love and you will never return to the closet

    some of us, most of us are not gay. We are homos.
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    Jun 29, 2015 4:39 PM GMT
    Both straight and gay guys come in a range of styles of expression of qualities historically (though not essentially) associated with particular gender identities.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Jun 29, 2015 5:18 PM GMT
    I agree with all of this, at least here in the US. I guess there are exceptions for kids still under their parents' thumbs and in some places that are still backward (Republican). But the next fight needs to be universal non-discrimination in the workplace though that is trickier because in most states you can be fired without good cause. Republicans call that necessary for businesses to create jobs. In reality it is just a way to further depress the workforce and demean employees.

    But we should all be more aggressive about standing up for ourselves. The time to hide in a closet is over. Now it is just cowardice.
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3525

    Jun 29, 2015 5:36 PM GMT
    if you are not eating mommy's groceries, you should be out.
    ESPECIALLY if your job depends on you being in the closet, no exceptions. If you cant be out at your job, you should be ashamed to work there.
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    Jun 29, 2015 5:52 PM GMT
    Obviously you feel some resentment that you think would be assuaged, but what exactly do the men of whom you are making demands get out of it? Do you think you've been given authority to judge the personal decisions of other people that you don't even know?
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    Jun 29, 2015 6:53 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidI'm always amused by the closeted, masc, straight acting gays who are in the closet because "they don't want to be associated with the stereotype effeminate gay man." Don't they realize if the rest of the world sees their oh so macho, masculine gay selves that stereotype will change?

    If you ain't part of the solution you're part of the problem.


    +1

    They are cowards.
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    Jun 29, 2015 6:55 PM GMT
    swimmer_sf saidObviously you feel some resentment that you think would be assuaged, but what exactly do the men of whom you are making demands get out of it? Do you think you've been given authority to judge the personal decisions of other people that you don't even know?


    If you coddle a weak part, it only grows weaker. If you rehab the part, it grow stronger; often stronger than behavior.

    There are those of us whom refuse to be enabler to dysfunction. That doesn't mean we're haters; in fact, just the opposite. We do what's best for all. If someone wants to be a closet case, fine, but, I want no part of their self inflicted misery. NONE.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Jun 29, 2015 6:58 PM GMT
    swimmer_sf saidObviously you feel some resentment that you think would be assuaged, but what exactly do the men of whom you are making demands get out of it? Do you think you've been given authority to judge the personal decisions of other people that you don't even know?

    No, but to speak in generalities doesn't negate to basic correctness of the belief. Sure there will be exceptions to every rule but I think the point being made is that given the progress, given the point we are at right now, that we can see the finish line, the point at which there is no reason to not live an authentic life without fear or really even to be noticed and thought of as different. But we need everyone to get there. Those who continue to hide will hold us all back in a way. There is an article in the NYT asking if we've lost some sense of our community now that we are effectively mainstreamed. The answer given was No. Because we still share the experience of realizing that we aren't the same as our parents. Or most of the people we see growing up. We are gay. And to have the continuation of the mindset that there is still a need to hide, AKA our brothers who remain closeted, will continue to harm us collectively. And certainly the most delicate of us, our youth.
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    Jun 29, 2015 7:26 PM GMT
    Destinharbor said
    swimmer_sf saidObviously you feel some resentment that you think would be assuaged, but what exactly do the men of whom you are making demands get out of it? Do you think you've been given authority to judge the personal decisions of other people that you don't even know?

    No, but to speak in generalities doesn't negate to basic correctness of the belief. Sure there will be exceptions to every rule but I think the point being made is that given the progress, given the point we are at right now, that we can see the finish line, the point at which there is no reason to not live an authentic life without fear or really even to be noticed and thought of as different. But we need everyone to get there. Those who continue to hide will hold us all back in a way. There is an article in the NYT asking if we've lost some sense of our community now that we are effectively mainstreamed. The answer given was No. Because we still share the experience of realizing that we aren't the same as our parents. Or most of the people we see growing up. We are gay. And to have the continuation of the mindset that there is still a need to hide, AKA our brothers who remain closeted, will continue to harm us collectively. And certainly the most delicate of us, our youth.


    Interesting, but I still don't think you've explained what is in it for the men whom you are targeting. The gay movement has been around for decades and everyone knows what it stands for among the myriad other movements and belief systems out there. All men have freely chosen the extent to which they identify with and participate in the gay movement based on what makes them happy. So you need to explain what benefits they (not the gay movement) will get by conforming with what you deem to be an acceptable participation level. Just labeling their lives as inauthentic is unhelpful because all lives are "authentic" for that particular place, person, and time. Just because they don't serve your needs to align with what you have chosen for yourself doesn't make them inauthentic.

    Shaming and shunning won't accomplish anything. You have to persuade by showing how your way will actually benefit them and not just yourself.
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    Jun 29, 2015 7:37 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidI'm always amused by the closeted, masc, straight acting gays who are in the closet because "they don't want to be associated with the stereotype effeminate gay man." Don't they realize if the rest of the world sees their oh so macho, masculine gay selves that stereotype will change?

    If you ain't part of the solution you're part of the problem.
    Actually that's not true. The stereotype is slowly changing anyway, just because people are starting to realize that effeminate behaviors and voices are not exclusive to gay men.

    In fact, that's the whole idea of "equality" - not for masculine gay men to be accepted, but for the diversity of people to be united.
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    Jun 29, 2015 7:57 PM GMT
    swimmer_sf said
    Destinharbor said
    swimmer_sf saidObviously you feel some resentment that you think would be assuaged, but what exactly do the men of whom you are making demands get out of it? Do you think you've been given authority to judge the personal decisions of other people that you don't even know?

    No, but to speak in generalities doesn't negate to basic correctness of the belief. Sure there will be exceptions to every rule but I think the point being made is that given the progress, given the point we are at right now, that we can see the finish line, the point at which there is no reason to not live an authentic life without fear or really even to be noticed and thought of as different. But we need everyone to get there. Those who continue to hide will hold us all back in a way. There is an article in the NYT asking if we've lost some sense of our community now that we are effectively mainstreamed. The answer given was No. Because we still share the experience of realizing that we aren't the same as our parents. Or most of the people we see growing up. We are gay. And to have the continuation of the mindset that there is still a need to hide, AKA our brothers who remain closeted, will continue to harm us collectively. And certainly the most delicate of us, our youth.


    Interesting, but I still don't think you've explained what is in it for the men whom you are targeting. The gay movement has been around for decades and everyone knows what it stands for among the myriad other movements and belief systems out there. All men have freely chosen the extent to which they identify with and participate in the gay movement based on what makes them happy. So you need to explain what benefits they (not the gay movement) will get by conforming with what you deem to be an acceptable participation level. Just labeling their lives as inauthentic is unhelpful because all lives are "authentic" for that particular place, person, and time. Just because they don't serve your needs to align with what you have chosen for yourself doesn't make them inauthentic.

    Shaming and shunning won't accomplish anything. You have to persuade by showing how your way will actually benefit them and not just yourself.


    I like the way you think!
  • buddycat

    Posts: 1874

    Jun 29, 2015 8:01 PM GMT
    I was looking at some of the profiles of Stonewall rioters and they were definitely not "masculine and discreet seeking the same". You never hear of the types you mentioned doing anything for gay rights. Some are not courageous to be true to themselves because you know as well as I they aren't that butch and are just putting up a front.
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    Jun 29, 2015 8:01 PM GMT
    swimmer_sf said
    Destinharbor said
    swimmer_sf saidObviously you feel some resentment that you think would be assuaged, but what exactly do the men of whom you are making demands get out of it? Do you think you've been given authority to judge the personal decisions of other people that you don't even know?

    No, but to speak in generalities doesn't negate to basic correctness of the belief. Sure there will be exceptions to every rule but I think the point being made is that given the progress, given the point we are at right now, that we can see the finish line, the point at which there is no reason to not live an authentic life without fear or really even to be noticed and thought of as different. But we need everyone to get there. Those who continue to hide will hold us all back in a way. There is an article in the NYT asking if we've lost some sense of our community now that we are effectively mainstreamed. The answer given was No. Because we still share the experience of realizing that we aren't the same as our parents. Or most of the people we see growing up. We are gay. And to have the continuation of the mindset that there is still a need to hide, AKA our brothers who remain closeted, will continue to harm us collectively. And certainly the most delicate of us, our youth.


    Interesting, but I still don't think you've explained what is in it for the men whom you are targeting. The gay movement has been around for decades and everyone knows what it stands for among the myriad other movements and belief systems out there. All men have freely chosen the extent to which they identify with and participate in the gay movement based on what makes them happy. So you need to explain what benefits they (not the gay movement) will get by conforming with what you deem to be an acceptable participation level. Just labeling their lives as inauthentic is unhelpful because all lives are "authentic" for that particular place, person, and time. Just because they don't serve your needs to align with what you have chosen for yourself doesn't make them inauthentic.

    Shaming and shunning won't accomplish anything. You have to persuade by showing how your way will actually benefit them and not just yourself.


    You say: "So you need to explain what benefits (I....since that is your perspective) will get by conforming with what you deem to be an acceptable participation level.

    Conforming? An interesting choice of words.
    Rosa Parks didn't 'conform', the drag queen at Stone Wall didn't 'conform'. Certainly I haven't done enough, in my mind. to contribute, it isn't conforming. But you don't want to do anything....and expect a dividend!

    The attitude of 'What is in it for me?' is utterly conceited. While I expect a number of people to sit in the back seats and let others do the achieving, you shouldn't be bad mouthing those that do.

    What did you do when Mathew Sheppard was killed? What did you do when Anita Bryant or any other fear monger came to town?

    You did nothing. Now you want the benefits. That's (believe it or not) cool! I expect gay people to assume that our rights were always there to be had.

    But it had to be won. Our rights will still need to be defended. Were will you be when a Gay bar is firebombed? 'I'm not a gay bar type' so it's none of my concern, I don't want to conform?
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    Jun 29, 2015 8:17 PM GMT
    timmm55 said
    swimmer_sf said
    Destinharbor said
    swimmer_sf saidObviously you feel some resentment that you think would be assuaged, but what exactly do the men of whom you are making demands get out of it? Do you think you've been given authority to judge the personal decisions of other people that you don't even know?

    No, but to speak in generalities doesn't negate to basic correctness of the belief. Sure there will be exceptions to every rule but I think the point being made is that given the progress, given the point we are at right now, that we can see the finish line, the point at which there is no reason to not live an authentic life without fear or really even to be noticed and thought of as different. But we need everyone to get there. Those who continue to hide will hold us all back in a way. There is an article in the NYT asking if we've lost some sense of our community now that we are effectively mainstreamed. The answer given was No. Because we still share the experience of realizing that we aren't the same as our parents. Or most of the people we see growing up. We are gay. And to have the continuation of the mindset that there is still a need to hide, AKA our brothers who remain closeted, will continue to harm us collectively. And certainly the most delicate of us, our youth.


    Interesting, but I still don't think you've explained what is in it for the men whom you are targeting. The gay movement has been around for decades and everyone knows what it stands for among the myriad other movements and belief systems out there. All men have freely chosen the extent to which they identify with and participate in the gay movement based on what makes them happy. So you need to explain what benefits they (not the gay movement) will get by conforming with what you deem to be an acceptable participation level. Just labeling their lives as inauthentic is unhelpful because all lives are "authentic" for that particular place, person, and time. Just because they don't serve your needs to align with what you have chosen for yourself doesn't make them inauthentic.

    Shaming and shunning won't accomplish anything. You have to persuade by showing how your way will actually benefit them and not just yourself.


    You say: "So you need to explain what benefits (I....since that is your perspective) will get by conforming with what you deem to be an acceptable participation level.

    Conforming? An interesting choice of words.
    Rosa Parks didn't 'conform', the drag queen at Stone Wall didn't 'conform'. Certainly I haven't done enough, in my mind. to contribute, it isn't conforming. But you don't want to do anything....and expect a dividend!

    The attitude of 'What is in it for me?' is utterly conceited. While I expect a number of people to sit in the back seats and let others do the achieving, you shouldn't be bad mouthing those that do.

    What did you do when Mathew Sheppard was killed? What did you do when Anita Bryant or any other fear monger came to town?

    You did nothing. Now you want the benefits. That's (believe it or not) cool! I expect gay people to assume that our rights were always there to be had.

    But it had to be won. Our rights will still need to be defended. Were will you be when a Gay bar is firebombed? 'I'm not a gay bar type' so it's none of my concern, I don't want to conform?


    "What's in it for me" is not conceited ... it's reality ... especially among masculine men. (Just read the sports and business sections of a newspaper.) So if you want to expand the gay community to include more masculine men you have to try to meet them where they are. The problem is that a large faction of the gay community doesn't think that they should even try to understand the thinking of masculine men, who are instead expected to knuckle-under to shaming and shunning. That will never work.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jun 29, 2015 8:44 PM GMT
    There were so many straight people at Pride this year, it's hard to believe that there are still gay people who feel that being gay is something that they can't admit to. As gay people are less victimized and marginalized it seems like there's more to gain by not deceiving people about who you love.

    The only real reason I can fathom a heterosexual hiding their marriage/relationship in our modern society would be if their parents or others they had close personal relationships with didn't approve of it, because society at large could care less. It makes me wonder if most closeted guys are just afraid of their parents. Ironically, they might be the only people who can really change their parents' perspective on this.

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    Jun 29, 2015 10:04 PM GMT


    So what is this understanding we 'normal' gays should have of our uber masculine gay men? Am I to understand you one of the elite? (It's not self evident, I know many masculine men, you did not trip a trigger.)

    Should you be put on a throne, to deify the work of the mere mortals who actually do something, and you take credit for?

    Business and Sports are indeed full of athletes coming out, and businesses who realize the benefits of equality.

    You don't like the fact that fags and faeries have been hard at work for decades to insure YOUR freedom. Straight people understand and don't give a shot who started the ball rolling. Straights are not being shamed or shunning. THEY GET IT. If you feel shamed or shunned from your Gay brethren.....maybe you are. You live in San Fucking Frisco!

    You don't get it, and seem to feel that others need to make room for you and the so called uber masculine Gays to take....(what the lead, the publicity, preening, ego-centric role?).

    It is said the victor writes the history, Gay People of all stripes won this victory. From the nelliest queen to the most closeted jock, it was our people.

    But remember WHO did it. It may not be tangible to you, not money in the bank. You're coming across as a carpet bagger.

    Why shouldn't you knuckle under? Masculine gay men have been hiding forever. You might as well continue.
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    Jun 29, 2015 10:10 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    HottJoe said

    The only real reason I can fathom a heterosexual hiding their marriage/relationship in our modern society would be if their parents or others they had close personal relationships with didn't approve of it, because society at large could care less. It makes me wonder if most closeted guys are just afraid of their parents. Ironically, they might be the only people who can really change their parents' perspective on this.



    I believe that was the case with the "esteemed" Art_Deco (though he "claims" he "didn't know" he was gay until his mid to late 40s!). icon_eek.gif


    There are many gays who compartmentalized their lives. It became easier NOT to come out. Some come out when they are 13, some at 73.

    It's of no concern to you.
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    Jun 29, 2015 10:15 PM GMT
    I've been thinking the same thing man, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, even with the way the environment has changed this will not be enough for a lot of guys who are masculine and don't identify with the gay culture. Let's face it as many people as there are who do accept it and are comfortable with gay people, there are probably just as many people who aren't and there is a still strong stigma attached to being gay. This is what and what will continue to keep masculine guys in the closet. I wonder if there will ever be a day where more masculine men will feel comfortable to embrace who they are and be able to talk to others about their sexuality.
  • mystery905

    Posts: 745

    Jun 29, 2015 11:01 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    timmm55 said
    southbeach1500 said
    HottJoe said

    The only real reason I can fathom a heterosexual hiding their marriage/relationship in our modern society would be if their parents or others they had close personal relationships with didn't approve of it, because society at large could care less. It makes me wonder if most closeted guys are just afraid of their parents. Ironically, they might be the only people who can really change their parents' perspective on this.



    I believe that was the case with the "esteemed" Art_Deco (though he "claims" he "didn't know" he was gay until his mid to late 40s!). icon_eek.gif


    There are many gays who compartmentalized their lives. It became easier NOT to come out. Some come out when they are 13, some at 73.

    It's of no concern to you.


    That's right, I'm not at all "concerned" about the decades Art_Deco lived a lie and turned his back on his "gay brethren."



    Oh give it a rest. It's his life and doesn't need you or anyone else judging it. Nor does he have to justify himself to you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 29, 2015 11:20 PM GMT
    The point is past the tipping point, GLBT individuals have now been indoctrinated into American society overnight and we have are unprecedentedly accepted now more than ever. (Advertising/ media industry is doing back flips over a "new" demographic it can segment into tons of niches)

    I think we're going to see all kinds of guys coming out now. And I think it's going to surprise some just how diverse the community really is. This is a game changer for dating in opinion.
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    Jun 29, 2015 11:32 PM GMT
    woodfordr saidNow its time for my fellow "masculine/masc/bro/jocks" to come out of the closet...


    You're always so fair and level headed in your posts, so I'm a bit surprised that you would make such a presumptuous statement. Why on earth would you automatically assume that all masculine gay men are in the closet? icon_confused.gif I am quite often mistaken as being straight and yet I've been out of the closet since the 8th grade. Not only did I face up to the opposition early, but I did it in a rural farming community where quite literally no one could be found who was not a fundamentalist Christian. And I have met many others like myself too. Not everyone fighting oppression is wearing a dress.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Jun 29, 2015 11:39 PM GMT
    I am a proud masculine gay man who would much rather not advertise my sexuality to the world. Why stir up a hornets nesticon_question.gif Furthermore, my natural sexual orientation is nobody's damned business.