Another view on SCOTUS decision on Obamacare - positive for the law's opponents, including Ryan's comments

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 28, 2015 11:21 PM GMT
    Had SCOTUS ruled against the subsidies, Congress would have been on the spot to step in with some sort of band-aid solution to protect the people in states without exchanges. Most likely, the GOP Congress would have imposed some kind of measure with strings attached, which the Democrats would likely oppose. The liberal media would paint the GOP as obstructing the administration, even though the law remains deeply unpopular. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

    Congressional action is off the table for now. But what will happen prior to the 2016 is the employer mandate will kick in, and premiums will rise, providing an extremely unpalatable combination of high premiums and high deductibles. The Democrats and the media won't be able to blame Congress or the GOP for this. The unpopularity of the law will most likely increase in time for 2016

    ------------------------------------------

    Ryan: Obamacare Will ‘Collapse Under Its Own Weight’

    Ryan said the current law is not fixable, and, citing the rationing of Medicare, denial of choice, double-digit annual increases in premiums, and the consolidation of insurance companies, he argued that the country won’t stand for it.

    “This law’s going to collapse under its own weight,” he said. “I am as motivated as ever before to repeal and replace this law, and that’s what we’re working on.”


    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2015/06/28/paul-ryan-obamacare-will-collapse-under-its-own-weight-n2018542
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jun 29, 2015 1:28 AM GMT
    2844585-6979649181-c9060.jpg
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jun 29, 2015 4:39 AM GMT
    You lost. Get over it.
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    Jun 29, 2015 5:08 AM GMT
    Svnw688 saidYou lost. Get over it.

    You obviously don't have the intellectual capability to make a substantive comment on the OP. Maybe someone from ThinkProgress, the HuffPost, or the DailyKos will say something in opposition that you can parrot. Or maybe you'll parrot some irrelevant point.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jun 29, 2015 5:23 AM GMT
    Yeah OP, because the CBO is such a leftist partisan entity.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/09/obamacares-cost-is-falling-as-fewer-receive-coverage-under-health-care-law-cbo-says/

    I know you're happy because you have medicare and (hopefully) a medicare supplement plan, but there are 10s of millions that need access to healthcare either because they're poor or had the contumacious audacity to get sick (i.e., have a preexisting condition). Spare us your partisan pity party as you suck resources out of the federal government faster than a new calf nurses the teet of its mother.
    433b8b566.jpg
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    Jun 29, 2015 5:36 AM GMT
    Svnw688 saidYeah OP, because the CBO is such a leftist partisan entity.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/09/obamacares-cost-is-falling-as-fewer-receive-coverage-under-health-care-law-cbo-says/

    I know you're happy because you have medicare and (hopefully) a medicare supplement plan, but there are 10s of millions that need access to healthcare either because they're poor or had the contumacious audacity to get sick (i.e., have a preexisting condition). Spare us your partisan pity party as you suck resources out of the federal government faster than a new calf nurses the teet of its mother.
    433b8b566.jpg

    The CBO by law must follow the assumptions provided to them, such as the budget tricks presented by the Democrats:
    http://www.budget.senate.gov/republican/public/index.cfm/2014/10/analysis-of-cbo-data-shows-that-obamacare-will-increase-deficit-over-next-decade

    BUT - your point, which I responded to was just a deflection from the points of the OP which I itemize for the reading comprehension challenged:

    1) The SCOTUS ruling gets the GOP off the hook.
    2) The law remains significantly unpopular.
    3) From an individual or family standpoint, the high premiums and deductibles will make the law even more unpopular leading up to the 2016 election.

    Your cut and paste did not address those points at all.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jun 29, 2015 5:56 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Svnw688 saidYeah OP, because the CBO is such a leftist partisan entity.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/09/obamacares-cost-is-falling-as-fewer-receive-coverage-under-health-care-law-cbo-says/

    I know you're happy because you have medicare and (hopefully) a medicare supplement plan, but there are 10s of millions that need access to healthcare either because they're poor or had the contumacious audacity to get sick (i.e., have a preexisting condition). Spare us your partisan pity party as you suck resources out of the federal government faster than a new calf nurses the teet of its mother.
    433b8b566.jpg

    The CBO by law must follow the assumptions provided to them, such as the budget tricks presented by the Democrats:
    http://www.budget.senate.gov/republican/public/index.cfm/2014/10/analysis-of-cbo-data-shows-that-obamacare-will-increase-deficit-over-next-decade

    BUT - your point, which I responded to was just a deflection from the points of the OP which I itemize for the reading comprehension challenged:

    1) The SCOTUS ruling gets the GOP off the hook.
    2) The law remains significantly unpopular.
    3) From an individual or family standpoint, the high premiums and deductibles will make the law even more unpopular leading up to the 2016 election.

    Your cut and paste did not address those points at all.


    We have had the ACA battle for over five years now, a huge Congressional battle, death panel allegations, and two serious Supreme Court challenges--not to mention other smaller challenges coming up the SCOTUS pipeline (though none that could gut the law). The debate is over, but insofar that you desire your "points" to be address, I will.

    As a threshold matter, your points are merely opinion masquerading as fact. When making grandiose claims, you need to state "I believe," "I think" or "in my opinion." I'd even accept "IMHO." You failed to do that.

    (1). The SCOTUS ruling does not get the GOP off the hook. The GOP is still--as we speak/type--blocking the expansion of medicare and medicare in MANY states and those people will not forget that obstinate and pointless harm interposed upon them. Insofar that you're postulating that America's healthcare problems are now possessed solely by the Democrats, that's preposterous. Those frustrated with the law will look to the GOP and say, "if not Obamacare, then what? Fix it." And the GOP has no answer but "kill Obamacare." You're confusing and conflating the opposition to a strategy as the supplanting of one by a superior strategy. Here, the GOP has no superior strategy. Better a broken ship than no ship. The DEMs have dropped the gauntlet, the ball is in the GOP's corner, and they have no answer but "I will repeal Obamacare." They forget to finish their idea and state what they will replace it with.

    (2). The law is unpopular largely because MANY of those who oppose it--as I do--want MORE government regulation (i.e., single payer). But your stupid poll doesn't account for that. So much of your "support" that disapproves of the law actually wants single-payer and includes me. Follow that analyis? Too complicated to comprehend sport?

    (3). Premiums always rise, even when private. Relevant here, premiums are rising at a LOWER rate than before the ACA and private markets. So Obamacare is actually saving everyone money and resources. Your argument is simply an appeal to "people don't want to pay for medical care." No duh, but they must, and it's better to pay LESS under Obamacare than MORE under the private, mostly unregulated market pre-ACA.

    Don't come at me with facile and trumped-up arguments, I'll slay them every time. Nobody is saying the ACA is perfect, there's lots of work--from the website, to enrolling more people, to eliminating waste--that needs to be done. But you and your ilks idiotic obstruction and pointless rallying cries are a relic of the past. We litigated for 5 years, you lost, now let's work together to make the law more efficient, get more people insured, improve quality of care, and lower costs.

    Balls in your court to discuss any of my points. Though I doubt you will, you'll likely regurgitate another "Obamacare is doomed" argument from your right-wing echo chamber.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 29, 2015 10:34 AM GMT
    Svnw688 said
    socalfitness said
    Svnw688 saidYeah OP, because the CBO is such a leftist partisan entity.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/09/obamacares-cost-is-falling-as-fewer-receive-coverage-under-health-care-law-cbo-says/

    I know you're happy because you have medicare and (hopefully) a medicare supplement plan, but there are 10s of millions that need access to healthcare either because they're poor or had the contumacious audacity to get sick (i.e., have a preexisting condition). Spare us your partisan pity party as you suck resources out of the federal government faster than a new calf nurses the teet of its mother.
    433b8b566.jpg

    The CBO by law must follow the assumptions provided to them, such as the budget tricks presented by the Democrats:
    http://www.budget.senate.gov/republican/public/index.cfm/2014/10/analysis-of-cbo-data-shows-that-obamacare-will-increase-deficit-over-next-decade

    BUT - your point, which I responded to was just a deflection from the points of the OP which I itemize for the reading comprehension challenged:

    1) The SCOTUS ruling gets the GOP off the hook.
    2) The law remains significantly unpopular.
    3) From an individual or family standpoint, the high premiums and deductibles will make the law even more unpopular leading up to the 2016 election.

    Your cut and paste did not address those points at all.


    We have had the ACA battle for over five years now, a huge Congressional battle, death panel allegations, and two serious Supreme Court challenges--not to mention other smaller challenges coming up the SCOTUS pipeline (though none that could gut the law). The debate is over, but insofar that you desire your "points" to be address, I will.

    As a threshold matter, your points are merely opinion masquerading as fact. When making grandiose claims, you need to state "I believe," "I think" or "in my opinion." I'd even accept "IMHO." You failed to do that.

    (1). The SCOTUS ruling does not get the GOP off the hook. The GOP is still--as we speak/type--blocking the expansion of medicare and medicare in MANY states and those people will not forget that obstinate and pointless harm interposed upon them. Insofar that you're postulating that America's healthcare problems are now possessed solely by the Democrats, that's preposterous. Those frustrated with the law will look to the GOP and say, "if not Obamacare, then what? Fix it." And the GOP has no answer but "kill Obamacare." You're confusing and conflating the opposition to a strategy as the supplanting of one by a superior strategy. Here, the GOP has no superior strategy. Better a broken ship than no ship. The DEMs have dropped the gauntlet, the ball is in the GOP's corner, and they have no answer but "I will repeal Obamacare." They forget to finish their idea and state what they will replace it with.

    (2). The law is unpopular largely because MANY of those who oppose it--as I do--want MORE government regulation (i.e., single payer). But your stupid poll doesn't account for that. So much of your "support" that disapproves of the law actually wants single-payer and includes me. Follow that analyis? Too complicated to comprehend sport?

    (3). Premiums always rise, even when private. Relevant here, premiums are rising at a LOWER rate than before the ACA and private markets. So Obamacare is actually saving everyone money and resources. Your argument is simply an appeal to "people don't want to pay for medical care." No duh, but they must, and it's better to pay LESS under Obamacare than MORE under the private, mostly unregulated market pre-ACA.

    Don't come at me with facile and trumped-up arguments, I'll slay them every time. Nobody is saying the ACA is perfect, there's lots of work--from the website, to enrolling more people, to eliminating waste--that needs to be done. But you and your ilks idiotic obstruction and pointless rallying cries are a relic of the past. We litigated for 5 years, you lost, now let's work together to make the law more efficient, get more people insured, improve quality of care, and lower costs.

    Balls in your court to discuss any of my points. Though I doubt you will, you'll likely regurgitate another "Obamacare is doomed" argument from your right-wing echo chamber.

    (1) The GOP is off the hook wrt to having to respond to the SCOTUS ruling as the OP clearly stated. The candidates will need to articulate a suitable replacement, which will likely include features such as tort reform and portability that the GOP members recommended that the Dems rejected because of special interest politics.

    (2) Your statement that MANY wanted even more govt regulation suggests a sizable percentage. Not supported by any facts. The statement would have been more accurate if the MANY were followed by "on the far left". The simple fact is the law remains hugely unpopular, and your excuse is nonsensical.

    (3) Premiums are expected to significantly rise, and you said nothing about the significant rise in deductibles. If you think that won't further erode popularity of the law, then you are quite naive.

    Points in the OP stand. Nice try.

  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jun 29, 2015 6:46 PM GMT
    The word according to SoCalFitness icon_rolleyes.gif

    The debate is over. Blacks cannot be enslaved, women get the right to vote, Obamacare is the law of the land, same sex couples can marry nationwide.

    Stop. Litigating. The. Past. "Tort reform" and "portability" are pathetic alternatives to Obamacare. This debate's over if a reversion to pre 2010 is what you're going to argue for. We're moving forward.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 29, 2015 6:55 PM GMT
    We shall see what will happen. Once people start seeing the impact of the employer mandate, all hell might break loose. Why else had the administration tried to delay as much as possible, and as some have said, by breaking the law which called for specific dates.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jun 30, 2015 12:34 AM GMT
    socalfitness saidWe shall see what will happen. Once people start seeing the impact of the employer mandate, all hell might break loose. Why else had the administration tried to delay as much as possible, and as some have said, by breaking the law which called for specific dates.


    The left wants nothing more than a debate about healthcare coverage, the minimum wage, and LGBT rights. We're also still HUGE fans of abortion debates since women break largely Democrat when "legitimate rape" quips emerge (moreso than they naturally do).

    Seen those death panels from under your tin foil hat yet? How many death panels are there?

    I'm scared!

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/03/22/the-gops-obamacare-death-panel-nonsense-wont-die/
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jun 30, 2015 12:36 AM GMT
    This about right?

    obama-obamacare-death-panel-kathleen-seb
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jun 30, 2015 12:37 AM GMT
    DEATH. PANELS.

    Lions, and tigers, and bears....oh my!

    deathpanels.jpg