Black + White + Religion + Gay- ?

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  Jun 28, 2015 11:33 PM GMT

  I don't think the Black community is listening, Karma is a two way street, they haven't caught on yet even after the shooting attack in one of their churches and the call to remove confederate flags, the more the black religious community resists, the worse it gets for them, why don't we just all unite for the common good, ending bigotry and hate?
  
  Look at these two polarizing articles
  
  
  Black Pastors' Group Urges Civil Disobedience Against Gay Marriage Ruling Saturday, 27 Jun 2015
  http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/bill-owens-caps-gay-marriage/2015/06/27/id/652541/
  
  At Least 5 Predominately Black Churches Have Been Destroyed By Fire In The Past Week 06/28/2015
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/28/black-churches-fire_n_7681754.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
  
  
  

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  Jun 28, 2015 11:54 PM GMT

  Maybe we should just let their churches continue to burn until they see the light
  
  I wonder if republican Hypocrite Tim Scott, went to the funeral of those killed in the church and sang along with his (black) enemy president Obama
  
  
  Anti-Gay Black Congressman Tim Scott Chosen to Replace Jim DeMint December 18, 2012
  http://www.musedmagonline.com/2012/12/anti-gay-black-congressman-tim-scott-chosen-to-replace-jim-demint/
  
  Tim Scott, appointed to replace Jim DeMint in the U.S. Senate, has become the first black senator from the South since the 19th Century. Besides going hard for his conservative views, it’s only natural that he is anti-Obama.
  
  During the brief Tea Party wave, Scott was elected in 2010 after supporting candidates like Mike Huckabee and Sarah Palin. Before the news was announced, many political pundits figured he would be the replacement. With views aligning similar to DeMint, he embraces both the Religious Right’s anti-gay, anti-choice social agenda and the Tea Party’s anti-government, anti-tax, anti-regulation agenda.
  
  Now, with Gov. Nikki Haley appointing him to fill DeMint’s seat in the Senate, Scott becomes South Carolina’s first African-American U.S. senator as well as the first black Republican senator from the South since the Reconstruction era and the first black Republican senator overall in more than 30 years. The last African-American GOP U.S. senator was Edward Brooke, a liberal Republican from Massachusetts, who served from 1967 to 1979.
  

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  Jun 29, 2015 12:21 AM GMT

  
  

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• metta
  
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  Jun 29, 2015 12:26 AM GMT

  Rev. Dr. Otis Moss, III is the Pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois, Challenges Fellow Black Clergy On Marriage Equality For Gays And Lesbians
  
  "Tell your brethren who are part of your ministerial coalition to “live their faith and not legislate their faith” for the Constitution is designed to protect the rights of all. "
  
  
  
  "The institution of marriage is not under attack as a result of the President’s words. Marriage was under attack years ago by men who viewed women as property and children as trophies of sexual prowess. Marriage is under attack by low wages, high incarceration, unfair tax policy, unemployment, and lack of education. Marriage is under attack by clergy who proclaim monogamy yet think nothing of stepping outside the bonds of marriage to have multiple affairs with “preaching groupies.” Same-gender couples did not cause the high divorce rate, but our adolescent views of relationships and our inability as a community to come to grips with the ethic of love and commitment did. We still confuse sex with love and romance with commitment."
  
  
  Read the entire speech here...it is really beautifully said:
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/28/otis-moss-iii-challenges-on-marriage-equality_n_1550449.html
  
  
  
  Trinity United Church Of Christ:
  
  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Trinity-United-Church-of-Christ/106911545842?fref=ts

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  Jun 29, 2015 12:27 AM GMT

  I don't think you can generalize by saying black community. Support for marriage equality amongst blacks has climbed steadily over the past couple of years. One group doesn't speak for the entire community.

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  Jun 29, 2015 12:30 AM GMT

  metta8 saidRev. Dr. Otis Moss, III is the Pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois, Challenges Fellow Black Clergy On Marriage Equality For Gays And Lesbians
  
  "Tell your brethren who are part of your ministerial coalition to “live their faith and not legislate their faith” for the Constitution is designed to protect the rights of all. "
  
  
  
  "The institution of marriage is not under attack as a result of the President’s words. Marriage was under attack years ago by men who viewed women as property and children as trophies of sexual prowess. Marriage is under attack by low wages, high incarceration, unfair tax policy, unemployment, and lack of education. Marriage is under attack by clergy who proclaim monogamy yet think nothing of stepping outside the bonds of marriage to have multiple affairs with “preaching groupies.” Same-gender couples did not cause the high divorce rate, but our adolescent views of relationships and our inability as a community to come to grips with the ethic of love and commitment did. We still confuse sex with love and romance with commitment."
  
  
  Read the entire speech here...it is really beautifully said:
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/28/otis-moss-iii-challenges-on-marriage-equality_n_1550449.html
  
  
  
  Trinity United Church Of Christ:
  
  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Trinity-United-Church-of-Christ/106911545842?fref=ts

  
  
  
  United Church Of Christ is one that supports
  
  
  

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  Jun 29, 2015 12:44 AM GMT

  James_Thunder_Early saidI don't think you can generalize by saying black community. Support for marriage equality amongst blacks has climbed steadily over the past couple of years. One group doesn't speak for the entire community.

  
  
  
  Can you post your statistics rather than speculate?
  

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• roadbikeRob
  
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  Jun 29, 2015 12:51 AM GMT

  Sadly, there is a lot of hypocrisy in the black Christian community.

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• metta
  
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  Jun 29, 2015 12:58 AM GMT

  I think change will happen. All that you need to do is look at the statistics of the youth in this country. Not only that, I believe that there is a good chance that now that the Supreme Court has spoken, there may be an increase shift of change of opinion because of that. Some will change because they know more gay people that are married. Some will change minds for the better. Some will die off. But the future is pretty clear what direction it will go. The opinions are changing much more quickly than issues of the women's right to vote, or interracial marriage.
  
  

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  Jun 29, 2015 1:01 AM GMT

  They have been brain washed with HATE!!!
  
  

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• metta
  
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  Jun 29, 2015 1:05 AM GMT

  2bnaked saidThey have been brain washed with HATE!!!
  
  

  
  
  
  Did you listen to Rev. Dr. Otis Moss, III's speech above. It is very good.

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  Jun 29, 2015 1:22 AM GMT

  metta8 said

  2bnaked saidThey have been brain washed with HATE!!!
  
  

  
  
  
  Did you listen to Rev. Dr. Otis Moss, III's speech above. It is very good.

  
  
  Agree

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  Jun 29, 2015 1:34 AM GMT

  metta8 saidRev. Dr. Otis Moss, III is the Pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois, Challenges Fellow Black Clergy On Marriage Equality For Gays And Lesbians
  
  "Tell your brethren who are part of your ministerial coalition to “live their faith and not legislate their faith” for the Constitution is designed to protect the rights of all. "
  
  
  
  "The institution of marriage is not under attack as a result of the President’s words. Marriage was under attack years ago by men who viewed women as property and children as trophies of sexual prowess. Marriage is under attack by low wages, high incarceration, unfair tax policy, unemployment, and lack of education. Marriage is under attack by clergy who proclaim monogamy yet think nothing of stepping outside the bonds of marriage to have multiple affairs with “preaching groupies.” Same-gender couples did not cause the high divorce rate, but our adolescent views of relationships and our inability as a community to come to grips with the ethic of love and commitment did. We still confuse sex with love and romance with commitment."
  
  
  Read the entire speech here...it is really beautifully said:
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/28/otis-moss-iii-challenges-on-marriage-equality_n_1550449.html
  
  
  
  Trinity United Church Of Christ:
  
  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Trinity-United-Church-of-Christ/106911545842?fref=ts

  
  
  The truth will set US free!!
  
  

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• Svnw688
  
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  Jun 29, 2015 4:44 AM GMT

  This post is really trollish, and beneath the OP's usual quality of posting.
  
  No. No we should not let black churches burn as retribution, atonement or as leverage for SOME--but not all--black church's opposition to gay marriage.
  
  For the record, the Catholic Church is against gay marriage, and controls MANY more people in the United States. We don't let them burn, and you've never proposed that, so why are you bashing BLACK religious institutions?
  
  What's more, MANY black congregants support marriage equality. Just like I'm a Catholic, my church formally is against gay marriage, I want it to and I push for formal change, and I personally fully support marriage equality both in law and religious Catholic doctrine.
  
  This original post is facile.

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  Jun 29, 2015 5:16 AM GMT

  Svnw688 saidThis post is really trollish, and beneath the OP's usual quality of posting.
  
  No. No we should not let black churches burn as retribution, atonement or as leverage for SOME--but not all--black church's opposition to gay marriage.
  
  For the record, the Catholic Church is against gay marriage, and controls MANY more people in the United States. We don't let them burn, and you've never proposed that, so why are you bashing BLACK religious institutions?
  
  What's more, MANY black congregants support marriage equality. Just like I'm a Catholic, my church formally is against gay marriage, I want it to and I push for formal change, and I personally fully support marriage equality both in law and religious Catholic doctrine.
  
  This original post is facile.

  
  
  
  Hypocrisy............
  
  Black or white churches and their religions, doesn't matter, that is what it all comes down to and we have read many examples here on RJ. "What's more, MANY black congregants support marriage equality", as I asked the other poster, can you produce your statistics on that statement? Here in Los Angeles county, voting tracking during the 2008 presidential election year, with CA prop 8 on the ballot showed the overwhelming majority of black and Latino voters, in shown neighborhoods, voted Yes On Prop 8.
  
  Black and Latino voters in LA county are the reason we lost the original Prop 8 battle. While they certainly and overwhelmingly, voted for our first black president, this group of voters were either very ignorant about gay people, at the time, or were undue influenced by the influx of Catholics, Mormons and their money that infiltrated our state of California.
  
  I think its been a combination of both, ignorance and influence. I don't think since 2008, black and latinos have changed their minds, much, about gay people because most of these people still are connected with their faith, religion and or church. I grew up, 12 years, in one of these religions, on the NO support list above (Lutheran- Missouri synod), I have the ability to see both sides.
  
  Now, regardless of race or gender, age (under 25) seems to be the gay acceptance determining factor here. Older black and white conservative people and some of their offspring, just need to die off already to create the kind of real change. Hate, as we know, is generationally taught as we have seen in the SC church shooter, goofball.
  
  
  
  

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• Svnw688
  
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  Jun 29, 2015 5:42 AM GMT

  I said "many"--not most--blacks support gay marriage. Turns out, in fact, MOST blacks do. 51% as of this poll, which held that 54% of all Americans do. I'd suspect the black support has proportionally increased at the rate the national population's approval has, but is still likely a little less than the national average. But even at less, there are MANY blacks who support equal marriage and, as it turns out, MOST blacks do.
  
  http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/182978/religion-race-sex-marriage.aspx

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• Svnw688
  
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  Jun 29, 2015 5:45 AM GMT

  And please generally see this, especially the "by generation" graph. ALL generations are coming around. You can literally see the learning curve at ALL generation levels. Don't be so hyperbolic, older people are not a lost cause. You're being facile and hyperbolic to state they simply need to "die off."
  
  http://www.pewforum.org/2015/06/08/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/

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  Jun 29, 2015 6:11 AM GMT

  
  Black or white, either way, this man scared the crap out of his faith based initiative
  
  
  
  
  

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  Jun 29, 2015 6:16 AM GMT

  ELNathB said

  James_Thunder_Early saidI don't think you can generalize by saying black community. Support for marriage equality amongst blacks has climbed steadily over the past couple of years. One group doesn't speak for the entire community.

  
  
  
  Can you post your statistics rather than speculate?
  

  
  
  I didn't speculate, I just stated you should label a whole community with a broad brush. With that said, the statistics do exist and they aren't mine, they are published by Pew, which is a respected association.
  
  http://www.pewforum.org/2015/06/08/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/
  
  http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/society/blacks-whites-latinos-we-all-mostly-support-gay-marriage-20150626
  
  And for what it's worth, most of the money and political support for anti-gay causes comes from whites, so it's not like anyone is innocent. But, this really should not be a racial argument.

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  Jun 29, 2015 6:45 AM GMT

  James_Thunder_Early said

  ELNathB said

  James_Thunder_Early saidI don't think you can generalize by saying black community. Support for marriage equality amongst blacks has climbed steadily over the past couple of years. One group doesn't speak for the entire community.

  
  
  
  Can you post your statistics rather than speculate?
  

  
  
  I didn't speculate, I just stated you should label a whole community with a broad brush. With that said, the statistics do exist and they aren't mine, they are published by Pew, which is a respected association.
  
  http://www.pewforum.org/2015/06/08/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/
  
  http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/society/blacks-whites-latinos-we-all-mostly-support-gay-marriage-20150626
  
  And for what it's worth, most of the money and political support for anti-gay causes comes from whites, so it's not like anyone is innocent. But, this really should not be a racial argument.

  
  
  
  Just so we are clear.....Obama is at least trying to bridge the gap
  
  
  Black Pastors Coalition Leader: Obama’s Comparison of Civil Rights and Gay Marriage Struggles a ‘Disgrace to the Black Community’ 10 Mar 2015
  http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/03/10/black-pastors-coalition-leader-obamas-comparison-of-civil-rights-and-gay-marriage-struggles-a-disgrace-to-the-black-community/
  
  
  “Ask your gay friend if it’s easier to be out and proud in America now than it was 30 years ago,” Obama said in Selma, Alabama, on Saturday, as he characterized the movement for same-sex marriage as another civil rights struggle.
  
  “I marched with many people back in those days and I have reached out to some of my friends who marched with me, and all of them are shocked,” Rev. William Owens of the Coalition of African American Pastors (CAAP) told Breitbart News. “They never thought they would see this day that gay rights would be equated with civil rights. Not one agreed with this comparison.”
  
  In February of 2014, CAAP issued a press release in which it announced a campaign to call for the impeachment of Attorney General Eric Holder on the basis that he has violated his oath of office by “attempting to impose same-sex ‘marriage’ throughout the nation.”
  
  “President Obama is a disgrace to the black community,” Owens said. “He is rewriting history. We didn’t suffer and die for gay marriage. We marched for opportunity, equality, justice, freedom from oppression. We are the true heirs of the civil rights movement. We have a new movement to reclaim the ‘real’ civil rights movement.”
  
  “The LGBT community hijacked our movement, a movement they know nothing about,” Owens asserted. “President Obama is delusional to compare our struggle with the struggle for marriage equality. Gays have not had fire hoses or dogs unleashed at them. They have not been hung from trees or denied basic human rights.”
  
  
  
  

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• roadbikeRob
  
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  Jun 29, 2015 12:18 PM GMT

  ELNathB said

  Svnw688 saidThis post is really trollish, and beneath the OP's usual quality of posting.
  
  No. No we should not let black churches burn as retribution, atonement or as leverage for SOME--but not all--black church's opposition to gay marriage.
  
  For the record, the Catholic Church is against gay marriage, and controls MANY more people in the United States. We don't let them burn, and you've never proposed that, so why are you bashing BLACK religious institutions?
  
  What's more, MANY black congregants support marriage equality. Just like I'm a Catholic, my church formally is against gay marriage, I want it to and I push for formal change, and I personally fully support marriage equality both in law and religious Catholic doctrine.
  
  This original post is facile.

  
  
  
  Hypocrisy............
  
  Black or white churches and their religions, doesn't matter, that is what it all comes down to and we have read many examples here on RJ. "What's more, MANY black congregants support marriage equality", as I asked the other poster, can you produce your statistics on that statement? Here in Los Angeles county, voting tracking during the 2008 presidential election year, with CA prop 8 on the ballot showed the overwhelming majority of black and Latino voters, in shown neighborhoods, voted Yes On Prop 8.
  
  Black and Latino voters in LA county are the reason we lost the original Prop 8 battle. While they certainly and overwhelmingly, voted for our first black president, this group of voters were either very ignorant about gay people, at the time, or were undue influenced by the influx of Catholics, Mormons and their money that infiltrated our state of California.
  
  I think its been a combination of both, ignorance and influence. I don't think since 2008, black and latinos have changed their minds, much, about gay people because most of these people still are connected with their faith, religion and or church. I grew up, 12 years, in one of these religions, on the NO support list above (Lutheran- Missouri synod), I have the ability to see both sides.
  
  Now, regardless of race or gender, age (under 25) seems to be the gay acceptance determining factor here. Older black and white conservative people and some of their offspring, just need to die off already to create the kind of real change. Hate, as we know, is generationally taught as we have seen in the SC church shooter, goofball.
  
  
  
  

  The Proposition 8 vote was much more supported by the blacks than the Hispanics. Only a small majority of Latinos in Los Angeles County voted in favor of the horrible Proposition 8 which showed that the Hispanic community was already evolving on this issue which cut the favorable vote down significantly. In stark contrast to both blacks and Mormons which voted overwhelmingly in favor of Proposition 8.

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• NealJohn
  
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  Jun 29, 2015 12:32 PM GMT

  The churches are within their rights to refuse gay marriage , let's not forget freedom is a two way street and according to their religion marriage is defined by the joining of a man and woman- we shouldn't be trying to change or refute that anymore than they should our newly found constitutional right.
  Personally , who gives a shit what they think. If you want to be in their club you have to play by thei rules. So just stay our of their clubhouse

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• Antarktis
  
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  Jun 29, 2015 1:44 PM GMT

  This has been an interesting side effect. I this is the first time I've seen race pulled into the equation without people randomly going on the attack.

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• ai82
  
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  Jun 29, 2015 2:17 PM GMT

  So racists are burning black churches in retribution for black churches being against gay marriage? Me thinks not. The same people who are burning black churches are likely the same people who are gay bashing and slandering jews. Get your head out of your ass.
  
  According to wikipedia:According to 2011 US Census Bureau estimates, California's population was 74.0% White, 6.6% Black or African American, 13.6% Asian, 1.0% American Indian, 0.4% Pacific Islander and 3.6% from two or more races. By ethnicity, 38.1% of the total population is Hispanic-Latino (of any race) and 61.9% Non-Hispanic (of any race).
  ......
  But Prop 8 passed because of black people...which make up a sliver of the population...okydoky. I recollect that the mormon church poured a ton of money into Prop 8...but you have no post about them. Just face it...you're a race baiter....a pathetic race baiter. I would'nt be surprised if you're the one burning black churches. You have some misdirected anger issues buddy.

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  Jun 29, 2015 5:55 PM GMT

  RELIGIOUS PEOPLE IN GENERAL ARE VERY ANTIGAY. Why would you think black RELIGIOUS people are any different if its the RELIGION that is driving the homomphobia. Just like RELIGION is driving it in white communities such as the Republican party where just 39% support same sex marriage.
  
  The black population (just as the African countries that are notoriously antigay) have been taught to think that homosexuality is a sin against God... an "abomination" in fact. Guess who they learned this hatred from? THE CHURCH.
  
  Yes, suffering should make people more empathetic. But that goes for EVERY group. Not just "the blacks".
  
  Also, I hate to insert facts into this discussion, but Black attitudes towards gay marriage have followed the same upward curve as whites and other groups. For every black pastor who signs these hate bill there are 4 white pastors who are also signing on. But don't take my word for it... Here is what THE PEW RESEARCH says about attitudes towards us...
  
  http://www.pewforum.org/2015/06/08/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/

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