Pretending to be someone else

  • aviddoc

    Posts: 49

    Jun 30, 2015 5:55 AM GMT
    Ok, so I just watched the 4th episode of Orange is the new black and some things that were said in the episode got me thinking. Long story short, a prison inmate named Big Boo had a mother who didn't accept her as a lesbian. During one of her flashback scene, her father wanted her to change her "costume" before she visits her mother in the hospital. His father told her that "no one gets the privilege of being themselves all the time" and that he hates wearing the same outfit for work for 5 times every week. In the end, Big Boo regrets her decision as her mother passed away and she thinks that it was stupid of her not to pretend as someone else for a day.

    My questions for you guys are, what would you do if you were in Big Boo's shoes? Would you pretend to be someone else even for just a day? Even if that someone doesn't accept you for who you are? What are your feelings about the quote? Big Boo also has a bad temper and little tolerance during the episode which I think makes it hard for her to pretend. For you, is it easy?

    For me, I would probably do the opposite of what she did in her situation, put on my straight costume and straight mask lol and pretend to be someone else for a day. In general though, I would only pretend if I could benefit from it or if it's the best possible outcome for me. It's complicated when I start to think deeply about it...

    Anyway, I would like to hear your thoughts on this. For those of you who've watched it, did you like the episode?
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    Jun 30, 2015 7:00 AM GMT
    pazkilimanjaro saidbeen there, done that, and regretted it. tried to be straight for 12 years from age 12 to 24. butched it up, tried to "straighten" myself out and whatever. at some point, i even lied to myself to the point where i believed that shit and even tried to erase some of the things that i did that i was ashamed of and embarrassed about in an attempt to lie to myself about being gay. apparently, i must have did a good job because most people would never suspect that i'm gay now. however, all that work was useless because i was still gay even after all that time and energy. even masturbating to females all the time as i was trying to fight my attraction to men didn't do shit. hell, i kept having guy crushes just like as i did as a kid and then... just so happened in my last year of college that i would have a professor who i was REALLY attracted to and that shit felt mad un fucking comfortable. i would be all infatuated with him then i'd tell myself that i'm NOT gay or try to minimize the situation in an attempt to keep the notion going that i was straight. eventually, that shit just fell apart mainly when i got high one night and just couldn't control myself where i was saying how i felt. remember everything i said and did and after that, felt guilty as fuck. that guilt eventually led to questioning and then etc etc.


    then there was the times i was trying to be a thug back in high school where i tried to copy off of prodigy of mobb deep, ol dirty bastard and gza because once again, i didn't want to be me. i wanted people to like me. basically, all that shit was basically trying to get people to like me because i didn't like myself nor did i feel that they would like me. after being bullied as a kid, i just didn't want to be a victim again so i tried to fit in the hardest i could and none of that shit worked.
    I thought you said previously that you are still in the closet.

    If that's true, take this thread as a learning experience to come out...not just to others, but to yourself. icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 30, 2015 7:03 AM GMT
    Oh and BTW, to answer the OP's question, no I wouldn't try to pretend to be someone else. I've been out for over 20 years and my family is still conservative/fundamentalist "christian" (I know how to properly spell, but they don't deserve a capital 'C' for christian). I'm close with my mom, and we have a clear understanding that I'll hang up the phone if she says even the slightest thing about "her" god that thinks I should go to hell.
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    Jun 30, 2015 2:24 PM GMT
    Interesting - this post reminds me of the Pet Shop Boys song "Too Many People"

    It points out that nearly *everyone* adjusts their personality a bit, depending on whom they are around - and not always consciously...

    The line "Whomever I pretend to be, depends on who is with me" pretty much sums it up.

    Sometimes it's subtle - you clean up your vocabulary with your grandparents, or you dress slightly differently with friends than with family.

    You shouldn't *have* to change to be accepted, but it appears to happen automatically, sometimes.
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    Jun 30, 2015 3:59 PM GMT
    If I were in Big Boo's shoes, aside from her tendancy to behave erraticaly towards straight people, I think I'd do exactly the same. Maybe I would have insisted to see her, but without changing my manners or clothes of course. She still would be my mother, and I know I would regret not saying goodbye. And if she happened to die before me, supposedly because of my homosexuality from my father's perspective, in the end, I would certainly NOT feel guilty.

    Lie to do what ?
    To make my mother's life more comfortable ?
    To give her credit for her bigotry ?
    Absolutly NO-WAY !

    I had to deal with my own shit, I had to digest myself my homosexuality at an early age (around 13). I was more mature than my schoolmates, I was picked on (at least one of the favorite targets) for beeing different. Not that I was a flamboyant kid ! I just was... more sensitive, much closer to adults than to children my age, kind of a weirdo too. On top of that, I learnt what "homosexual" meant, through the eyes of a couple of old folks who gave us our 1st lesson about sexuality. In a catholic school, I can let you imagine... oral/anal sex = abomination, homos = sin etc. So cool to discover "your social label" in such a positive point of view, my level of selfesteem was so low, I could say "Hi" to Chinese kids ! ><"

    Hopefully, my father's sister is gay, so... even if I had to get through a rough path with my mother when I came out at 17, it's behind us. I know she still wishes I were straight, but only because she thinks it would be easier to fit in, find my soul mate (and probably to get gran children her own blood, but... I can understand that).

    Anyway, to get back on the original topic, Big Boo experienced kind of the same childhood, even worse since it was years before I did, in a much less tolerant environment. She had to find her own strengh and support, by herself. So in her shoes, I could not pretend either. A fake relationship would not mean anything to me. The only thing I would want is my mother's recognition, and I know that in such a context, it would have been a very long shot !

    Very good show, this 3d season was for sure less dramatic than the 2 others, but... I think the 4th will be very interesting :')
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    Jun 30, 2015 4:28 PM GMT
    I wouldn't do that, except the person that requires the 'costume' is someone I really appreciate and for whatever reason has a problem accepting reality. Like a loving grandma who was born in another era, who am I to make her change now? Ill let that pass and change myself for a bit to make her happy in her last moments.
  • aviddoc

    Posts: 49

    Jun 30, 2015 10:46 PM GMT
    pazkilimanjaro saidbeen there, done that, and regretted it. tried to be straight for 12 years from age 12 to 24. butched it up, tried to "straighten" myself out and whatever. at some point, i even lied to myself to the point where i believed that shit and even tried to erase some of the things that i did that i was ashamed of and embarrassed about in an attempt to lie to myself about being gay. apparently, i must have did a good job because most people would never suspect that i'm gay now. however, all that work was useless because i was still gay even after all that time and energy. even masturbating to females all the time as i was trying to fight my attraction to men didn't do shit. hell, i kept having guy crushes just like as i did as a kid and then... just so happened in my last year of college that i would have a professor who i was REALLY attracted to and that shit felt mad un fucking comfortable. i would be all infatuated with him then i'd tell myself that i'm NOT gay or try to minimize the situation in an attempt to keep the notion going that i was straight. eventually, that shit just fell apart mainly when i got high one night and just couldn't control myself where i was saying how i felt. remember everything i said and did and after that, felt guilty as fuck. that guilt eventually led to questioning and then etc etc.


    then there was the times i was trying to be a thug back in high school where i tried to copy off of prodigy of mobb deep, ol dirty bastard and gza because once again, i didn't want to be me. i wanted people to like me. basically, all that shit was basically trying to get people to like me because i didn't like myself nor did i feel that they would like me. after being bullied as a kid, i just didn't want to be a victim again so i tried to fit in the hardest i could and none of that shit worked.


    I tried acting straight too when I was younger so people would like me more, but it never really worked. I still do sometimes unconsciously or out of habit, but I just come off as pretentious and off-putting. It's hard, but nothing compared to what you've been through. I hope you're better now.
  • aviddoc

    Posts: 49

    Jun 30, 2015 10:55 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidOh and BTW, to answer the OP's question, no I wouldn't try to pretend to be someone else. I've been out for over 20 years and my family is still conservative/fundamentalist "christian" (I know how to properly spell, but they don't deserve a capital 'C' for christian). I'm close with my mom, and we have a clear understanding that I'll hang up the phone if she says even the slightest thing about "her" god that thinks I should go to hell.


    It's nice that you're still close with your mom and you have like a sort of agreement. I know some conservative or religious parents who would just disown their children or try to change them if homosexuality is against their belief, mine are probably like this.
  • aviddoc

    Posts: 49

    Jun 30, 2015 11:09 PM GMT
    Doctor9 saidInteresting - this post reminds me of the Pet Shop Boys song "Too Many People"

    It points out that nearly *everyone* adjusts their personality a bit, depending on whom they are around - and not always consciously...

    The line "Whomever I pretend to be, depends on who is with me" pretty much sums it up.

    Sometimes it's subtle - you clean up your vocabulary with your grandparents, or you dress slightly differently with friends than with family.

    You shouldn't *have* to change to be accepted, but it appears to happen automatically, sometimes.


    I can't find the song on youtube, which is weird. I thought it would have every song available. The chorus line, "I sometimes think that I'm too many people" really resonates with me. People always say be true to yourself or just be yourself, but I don't think you can be yourself all the time. I don't want to overthink this, so I think it's just human nature lol.
  • aviddoc

    Posts: 49

    Jun 30, 2015 11:47 PM GMT
    Bjorkio saidIf I were in Big Boo's shoes, aside from her tendancy to behave erraticaly towards straight people, I think I'd do exactly the same. Maybe I would have insisted to see her, but without changing my manners or clothes of course. She still would be my mother, and I know I would regret not saying goodbye. And if she happened to die before me, supposedly because of my homosexuality from my father's perspective, in the end, I would certainly NOT feel guilty.

    Lie to do what ?
    To make my mother's life more comfortable ?
    To give her credit for her bigotry ?
    Absolutly NO-WAY !

    I had to deal with my own shit, I had to digest myself my homosexuality at an early age (around 13). I was more mature than my schoolmates, I was picked on (at least one of the favorite targets) for beeing different. Not that I was a flamboyant kid ! I just was... more sensitive, much closer to adults than to children my age, kind of a weirdo too. On top of that, I learnt what "homosexual" meant, through the eyes of a couple of old folks who gave us our 1st lesson about sexuality. In a catholic school, I can let you imagine... oral/anal sex = abomination, homos = sin etc. So cool to discover "your social label" in such a positive point of view, my level of selfesteem was so low, I could say "Hi" to Chinese kids ! ><"

    Hopefully, my father's sister is gay, so... even if I had to get through a rough path with my mother when I came out at 17, it's behind us. I know she still wishes I were straight, but only because she thinks it would be easier to fit in, find my soul mate (and probably to get gran children her own blood, but... I can understand that).

    Anyway, to get back on the original topic, Big Boo experienced kind of the same childhood, even worse since it was years before I did, in a much less tolerant environment. She had to find her own strengh and support, by herself. So in her shoes, I could not pretend either. A fake relationship would not mean anything to me. The only thing I would want is my mother's recognition, and I know that in such a context, it would have been a very long shot !

    Very good show, this 3d season was for sure less dramatic than the 2 others, but... I think the 4th will be very interesting :')


    Some parents don't want their children to be gay, because they think it would be a harder life for them. I find parents like this to be touching, because it shows that they care as opposed to those who only cares about their "image". My parents are kind of hypocrites, so I wasn't really exposed to the religious hate and I'm not out, but I really hate it when people label it as "sin" or anything bad. It's not healthy for the minds of those who are just discovering their sexuality at a young age or people who are sensitive about this. Gay means happy, anyone that says otherwise is bullcrap.

    The episode didn't really show much of her relationship with her mother, seems to me she still loves her mother and she, like almost everyone, wants the approval and support from those we love, especially if you feel like the world is against you, so it's like adding salt to your injury. I think it would be less dramatic if she visited her mother with her costume on, but I really wanted to see how they interact after all those years. Still, I really like that they finally showed us a glimpse of her past. Also, I've been seeing a lot of hate on Piper, is she really that bad of a character?
  • aviddoc

    Posts: 49

    Jun 30, 2015 11:50 PM GMT
    Bjorkio saidIf I were in Big Boo's shoes, aside from her tendancy to behave erraticaly towards straight people, I think I'd do exactly the same. Maybe I would have insisted to see her, but without changing my manners or clothes of course. She still would be my mother, and I know I would regret not saying goodbye. And if she happened to die before me, supposedly because of my homosexuality from my father's perspective, in the end, I would certainly NOT feel guilty.

    Lie to do what ?
    To make my mother's life more comfortable ?
    To give her credit for her bigotry ?
    Absolutly NO-WAY !

    I had to deal with my own shit, I had to digest myself my homosexuality at an early age (around 13). I was more mature than my schoolmates, I was picked on (at least one of the favorite targets) for beeing different. Not that I was a flamboyant kid ! I just was... more sensitive, much closer to adults than to children my age, kind of a weirdo too. On top of that, I learnt what "homosexual" meant, through the eyes of a couple of old folks who gave us our 1st lesson about sexuality. In a catholic school, I can let you imagine... oral/anal sex = abomination, homos = sin etc. So cool to discover "your social label" in such a positive point of view, my level of selfesteem was so low, I could say "Hi" to Chinese kids ! ><"

    Hopefully, my father's sister is gay, so... even if I had to get through a rough path with my mother when I came out at 17, it's behind us. I know she still wishes I were straight, but only because she thinks it would be easier to fit in, find my soul mate (and probably to get gran children her own blood, but... I can understand that).

    Anyway, to get back on the original topic, Big Boo experienced kind of the same childhood, even worse since it was years before I did, in a much less tolerant environment. She had to find her own strengh and support, by herself. So in her shoes, I could not pretend either. A fake relationship would not mean anything to me. The only thing I would want is my mother's recognition, and I know that in such a context, it would have been a very long shot !

    Very good show, this 3d season was for sure less dramatic than the 2 others, but... I think the 4th will be very interesting :')


    btw I'm kind of offended by what you wrote about saying "hi" to chinese kids when your level of selfesteem was so low...seriously?
  • aviddoc

    Posts: 49

    Jun 30, 2015 11:53 PM GMT
    David666k saidI wouldn't do that, except the person that requires the 'costume' is someone I really appreciate and for whatever reason has a problem accepting reality. Like a loving grandma who was born in another era, who am I to make her change now? Ill let that pass and change myself for a bit to make her happy in her last moments.


    My sentiments exactly! I love my grandmother so much, if she happens to be someone who has a problem with me being gay, I would put on the damn costume for a year if I have to.