Poll: Bush, Trump...both trail Clinton

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    Jul 02, 2015 12:28 AM GMT
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/01/politics/donald-trump-poll-hillary-clinton-jeb-bush/index.html
    ...Jeb Bush and businessman Donald Trump top the list of GOP presidential contenders following their back-to-back campaign launches in mid-June, and are the only two Republican candidates holding double-digit support among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents...

    ...Clinton, though, continues to lead all GOP candidates in head-to-head general election match-ups.


    It's like she's telling them to go fax themselves.
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    Jul 02, 2015 2:26 PM GMT
    If Bush or Clinton wins, wouldn't that make the United States an oligarchy and not a democracy?
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    Jul 02, 2015 2:39 PM GMT
    YOURE-FIRED1.jpg
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    Jul 02, 2015 2:55 PM GMT
    The_Perfect_Ashlar saidIf Bush or Clinton wins, wouldn't that make the United States an oligarchy and not a democracy?


    It's already oligarchy at least by proxy vis–à–vis corporate rule be that by major stockholders as people or by mutual fund. The head of state, greed, doling out enough morsels of bread, feigning fragments of compassion and echoing just enough environmental concern to keep the masses from uprising.

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    Jul 02, 2015 5:59 PM GMT
    The_Perfect_Ashlar saidIf Bush or Clinton wins, wouldn't that make the United States an oligarchy and not a democracy?


    Seriously. Why are people dead set on living in a fucking monarchy? It frustrates me that people only see Clinton and Bush as options JUST because they come from a "noble" line of presidents. It seriously pisses me off.

  • Jul 02, 2015 6:12 PM GMT
    Animus said
    The_Perfect_Ashlar saidIf Bush or Clinton wins, wouldn't that make the United States an oligarchy and not a democracy?


    Seriously. Why are people dead set on living in a fucking monarchy? It frustrates me that people only see Clinton and Bush as options JUST because they come from a "noble" line of presidents. It seriously pisses me off.


    I'm tired of them too.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Jul 03, 2015 12:23 AM GMT
    Animus said
    The_Perfect_Ashlar saidIf Bush or Clinton wins, wouldn't that make the United States an oligarchy and not a democracy?


    Seriously. Why are people dead set on living in a fucking monarchy? It frustrates me that people only see Clinton and Bush as options JUST because they come from a "noble" line of presidents. It seriously pisses me off.


    Speak for yourself. Of all the reasons I've heard Hillary and Jeb! supporters offer for their support, "nobility" is never one of them. It may come as a shock to you, but both actually have records from decades of public service and have policies that they are promoting. That's what serious voters will the scrutinizing, not their names. And while Bush does come from a long line of politicians, Hillary's mother was a maid turned housewife and her father a small businessman; her grandparents working class first or second-generation immigrants. So I'm not at all sure how that gets translated into the minds of deluded individuals into a "noble line". I've never heard of nobles that worked as maids, factory workers, and immigrant farmers.

    There are a number of very good Presidents from political families -- FDR chief among them. What a disaster for this country it would have been if he'd been rejected because of his last name. It's arbitrary.

    All this whining about oligarchy is silly. No, we don't live in an oligarchy, we have elections.Nobody has to vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton or Jeb Bush -- there are other candidates running. There are plenty of candidates from political families who have run and lost because other candidates did a better job of convincing voters: Nelson Rockefellor, Sargent Shriver, Mo Udall, Alan Simpson, Bob Taft, Adlai Stevenson, Ted Kennedy, Mitt Romney, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, George H.W. Bush, and John McCain all had powerful politicians in their families and all lost Presidential primary or general elections because voters chose someone else.

    If other candidates fail to make their case to voters this time, that's their own fault.
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    Jul 03, 2015 2:41 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    Animus said
    The_Perfect_Ashlar saidIf Bush or Clinton wins, wouldn't that make the United States an oligarchy and not a democracy?


    Seriously. Why are people dead set on living in a fucking monarchy? It frustrates me that people only see Clinton and Bush as options JUST because they come from a "noble" line of presidents. It seriously pisses me off.


    Speak for yourself. Of all the reasons I've heard Hillary and Jeb! supporters offer for their support, "nobility" is never one of them. It may come as a shock to you, but both actually have records from decades of public service and have policies that they are promoting. That's what serious voters will the scrutinizing, not their names. And while Bush does come from a long line of politicians, Hillary's mother was a maid turned housewife and her father a small businessman; her grandparents working class first or second-generation immigrants. So I'm not at all sure how that gets translated into the minds of deluded individuals into a "noble line". I've never heard of nobles that worked as maids, factory workers, and immigrant farmers.

    There are a number of very good Presidents from political families -- FDR chief among them. What a disaster for this country it would have been if he'd been rejected because of his last name. It's arbitrary.

    All this whining about oligarchy is silly. No, we don't live in an oligarchy, we have elections.Nobody has to vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton or Jeb Bush -- there are other candidates running. There are plenty of candidates from political families who have run and lost because other candidates did a better job of convincing voters: Nelson Rockefellor, Sargent Shriver, Mo Udall, Alan Simpson, Bob Taft, Adlai Stevenson, Ted Kennedy, Mitt Romney, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, George H.W. Bush, and John McCain all had powerful politicians in their families and all lost Presidential primary or general elections because voters chose someone else.

    If other candidates fail to make their case to voters this time, that's their own fault.


    "John McCain all had powerful politicians in their families"

    I'm trying to think of who?
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jul 03, 2015 9:31 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    TroyAthlete said
    Animus said
    The_Perfect_Ashlar saidIf Bush or Clinton wins, wouldn't that make the United States an oligarchy and not a democracy?


    Seriously. Why are people dead set on living in a fucking monarchy? It frustrates me that people only see Clinton and Bush as options JUST because they come from a "noble" line of presidents. It seriously pisses me off.


    Speak for yourself. Of all the reasons I've heard Hillary and Jeb! supporters offer for their support, "nobility" is never one of them. It may come as a shock to you, but both actually have records from decades of public service and have policies that they are promoting. That's what serious voters will the scrutinizing, not their names. And while Bush does come from a long line of politicians, Hillary's mother was a maid turned housewife and her father a small businessman; her grandparents working class first or second-generation immigrants. So I'm not at all sure how that gets translated into the minds of deluded individuals into a "noble line". I've never heard of nobles that worked as maids, factory workers, and immigrant farmers.

    There are a number of very good Presidents from political families -- FDR chief among them. What a disaster for this country it would have been if he'd been rejected because of his last name. It's arbitrary.

    All this whining about oligarchy is silly. No, we don't live in an oligarchy, we have elections.Nobody has to vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton or Jeb Bush -- there are other candidates running. There are plenty of candidates from political families who have run and lost because other candidates did a better job of convincing voters: Nelson Rockefellor, Sargent Shriver, Mo Udall, Alan Simpson, Bob Taft, Adlai Stevenson, Ted Kennedy, Mitt Romney, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, George H.W. Bush, and John McCain all had powerful politicians in their families and all lost Presidential primary or general elections because voters chose someone else.

    If other candidates fail to make their case to voters this time, that's their own fault.


    "John McCain all had powerful politicians in their families"

    I'm trying to think of who?


    Admitted, TroyAthlete made one small mistake when he listed John McCain, who came from a storied military (as opposed to political) family. Other than that one, minor, error, TroyAthete's point is entirely on point. And I personally adopt it as my own.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Jul 03, 2015 11:18 PM GMT
    Svnw688 said
    Admitted, TroyAthlete made one small mistake when he listed John McCain, who came from a storied military (as opposed to political) family. Other than that one, minor, error, TroyAthete's point is entirely on point. And I personally adopt it as my own.


    Well I would still say John McCain's family was political. Maybe I should have put "political figures" instead of "politicians" but there is no doubt that John McCain, Sr. and John McCain Jr. both wielded enormous political power and influence in their outsized roles in the military bureaucracy. So include John McCain III or don't: I agree with you my point stands, quibbling here and there aside.
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    Jul 03, 2015 11:44 PM GMT
    Wasn't trying to pick someone's post apart. I just couldn't remember, which is happening more often these days. No question that the military is quite political though.

    I don't think lineage is any advantage and can be a big disadvantage when the country is in one of those 'throw the bastard out' mood.

    It still it can be an advantage though just being around it... with Hillary as first lady for 8 years and Jeb around it for 20 years given that 41 was VP for 8 years and 4 years as POTUS and then 43 for 8 years. That helps a bit with my big concern about an ex governor as president.