Next big Supreme Court thingy

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 07, 2015 6:06 PM GMT
    This was rolling around in google news today. Probably surfaced for me because it knows i live in Denver and the lawyers phucked with the google ranking.

    The History:
    A local suburban bakery "Masterpiece Cakeshop" owned by Jack Phillips refused service to a gay couple. His business lost a lower court case with The Colorado Civil Rights Commission in May 2014. His restitution; Phillips & his staff must take re-education classes and file quarterly compliance reports for two years. He stopped baking cakes all together.

    What Is New:
    Phillips has obtained funding from a christian legal firm "Alliance Defending Freedom" together they are doing an appeal before the local Colorado Court of Appeals Court.

    the Alliance Defending Freedom lawyers claim they will take it to the Supreme Court. Guess they figure not to win big in Colorado.


    reference:
    http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/06/this-could-be-the-next-big-supreme-court-gay-rights-case/



    masterpiece_cakeshop_protest.jpg



    the gay couple Charlie Craig and Dave Mullins
    charlie_craig_and_dave_mullins.jpg
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 07, 2015 6:53 PM GMT
    I guess 2,000 years of the church teaching that gay people are an abomination has led to mental illnesses which can't be cured overnight. I pity these homophobes. Of course, how many gay people believed they were going to hell when they committed suicide, thanks to people like him?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 07, 2015 7:05 PM GMT
    Fox News Sunday covered this issue in detail, with Evan Wolfson representing our side and some Bible-thumper the other, and Wolfson did a good job of making the distinction between private speech and commercial obligations. It is an interesting issue and I look forward to it being thrashed out in the courts.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 07, 2015 7:29 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidFox News Sunday covered this issue in detail, with Evan Wolfson representing our side and some Bible-thumper the other, and Wolfson did a good job of making the distinction between private speech and commercial obligations. It is an interesting issue and I look forward to it being thrashed out in the courts.

    It seems like the courts will come down in our favor. If not, I imagine it will be legal to refuse a gay couple pancakes at IHOP.
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    Jul 07, 2015 7:41 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    MGINSD saidFox News Sunday covered this issue in detail, with Evan Wolfson representing our side and some Bible-thumper the other, and Wolfson did a good job of making the distinction between private speech and commercial obligations. It is an interesting issue and I look forward to it being thrashed out in the courts.

    It seems like the courts will come down in our favor. If not, I imagine it will be legal to refuse a gay couple pancakes at IHOP.


    Only if they ask that those hotcakes be inscribed, "Happy Anniversary, John. Love, Dan."
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 07, 2015 7:46 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    HottJoe said
    MGINSD saidFox News Sunday covered this issue in detail, with Evan Wolfson representing our side and some Bible-thumper the other, and Wolfson did a good job of making the distinction between private speech and commercial obligations. It is an interesting issue and I look forward to it being thrashed out in the courts.

    It seems like the courts will come down in our favor. If not, I imagine it will be legal to refuse a gay couple pancakes at IHOP.


    Only if they ask that those hotcakes be inscribed, "Happy Anniversary, John. Love, Dan."

    D'aaaaaaw. That's cute.icon_razz.gif
  • OutdoorAdvent...

    Posts: 361

    Jul 07, 2015 10:59 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidFox News Sunday covered this issue in detail, with Evan Wolfson representing our side and some Bible-thumper the other, and Wolfson did a good job of making the distinction between private speech and commercial obligations. It is an interesting issue and I look forward to it being thrashed out in the courts.

    There is nothing interesting about discrimination.
  • Joeyphx444

    Posts: 2382

    Jul 07, 2015 11:01 PM GMT
    Sorry but I believe a business has the right to refuse anyone, stop forcing people and your agenda, go somewhere else and don't make a case out of it. Do people have nothing else to do?
  • winwin

    Posts: 264

    Jul 07, 2015 11:02 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidI guess 2,000 years of the church teaching that gay people are an abomination has led to mental illnesses which can't be cured overnight. I pity these homophobes. Of course, how many gay people believed they were going to hell when they committed suicide, thanks to people like him?


    Didn't hitler suffer from the same mental illness? Look what happened to him?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 07, 2015 11:06 PM GMT
    Joeyphx444 saidSorry but I believe a business has the right to refuse anyone, stop forcing people and your agenda, go somewhere else and don't make a case out of it. Do people have nothing else to do?
    What if they don't want to serve black people? Should they have that right too?
  • winwin

    Posts: 264

    Jul 07, 2015 11:27 PM GMT
    Joeyphx444 saidSorry but I believe a business has the right to refuse anyone, stop forcing people and your agenda, go somewhere else and don't make a case out of it. Do people have nothing else to do?


    The answer is plain and simple. They are not obeying the laws, and their religion should be irrelevant when they are serving the public. Why don't they refuse their business to liars, divorcees and people who eat shell fish and pork???

    If they don't like the laws of the country then they have the option of moving to another country where they can fulfill their bigotry and ignorance.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 07, 2015 11:33 PM GMT
    As a God fearing Christian who grew up in the church I get really nervous when people are allowed to use religious opinion to decide who gets access to or is denied access to service. No American of any demographic alliance I should have to go to 10 different bakeries to find one that is religiously comfortable with serving a a racial minority. Nor should my boss have to go to 10 florists to find one that is religiously comfortable with serving a female business owner. Same with any group, protected class or not. It just feels like a shitty way to practice your religion.

    I think true Christians should do as I do... I subscribe to the love/grace of God and leave the wrath/judgement to God. Because truth is that none of us were around when the bible was written and it's been translated and interpreted so differently. We just don't know what was meant or truly intended by much of it nor how it applies today. So instead of interpreting hateful, discriminatory assumptions why not take the inclusive interpretation that spreads peace/love/good vibes to everyone?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 07, 2015 11:48 PM GMT
    Damn! These people do not know when to quit!
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 08, 2015 12:28 AM GMT
    Joeyphx444 saidSorry but I believe a business has the right to refuse anyone, stop forcing people and your agenda, go somewhere else and don't make a case out of it. Do people have nothing else to do?

    I used to think you were cool.icon_confused.gif
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14348

    Jul 08, 2015 12:41 AM GMT
    HottJoe said
    Joeyphx444 saidSorry but I believe a business has the right to refuse anyone, stop forcing people and your agenda, go somewhere else and don't make a case out of it. Do people have nothing else to do?

    I used to think you were cool.icon_confused.gif
    Just like you used to think I was a good guy until I opposed your ultra liberal views as too extreme.icon_razz.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 08, 2015 12:51 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    HottJoe said
    Joeyphx444 saidSorry but I believe a business has the right to refuse anyone, stop forcing people and your agenda, go somewhere else and don't make a case out of it. Do people have nothing else to do?

    I used to think you were cool.icon_confused.gif
    Just like you used to think I was a good guy until I opposed your ultra liberal views as too extreme.icon_razz.gif

    Well, now you can set your sights on Joey. I'm sure you've exhausted my profile page, as it is.icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 08, 2015 12:52 AM GMT
    Joeyphx444 said
    Sorry but I believe a business has the right to refuse anyone, stop forcing people and your agenda, go somewhere else and don't make a case out of it. Do people have nothing else to do?

    What about the segregationist, who claims authority in the Bible, and refuses service to Blacks? Or to Jews, because he's Christian and they're not?

    This used to happen in the US in my own lifetime. Blacks refused everywhere, Jews refused at country clubs. I saw, with my own eyes, restrooms and water fountains marked "White" and "Colored", when I was 20 years old!

    Do you want to return to that? Because that is what your proposition will create.

    I will not accept an America like that. And if you open a business to the public that is a place of "public accommodation" then you accommodate the PUBLIC. Which may include Blacks, Jews, Latinos. Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, LGBT, everyone. If you wanna have a business that is private, by invitation only, fine. But that's not what we're talking here, is it?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 08, 2015 1:00 AM GMT
    I don't sympathize with the bakery in this case, but I really do think that discretion in taking orders has its place. I've watched a number of employers suffer in the long run for not being able to say "no" to an order that's in nobody's best interest. One reason I've freelanced as little as I have is that I didn't feel comfortable refusing clients from a liability standpoint.

    It's not the same thing, I know, but I have no idea where the legal distinction lies. I always just assumed that the "right to refuse service" was the reasonable defense when deciding which orders to take and which ones not to.
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    Jul 08, 2015 2:12 AM GMT
    HottJoe saidI guess 2,000 years of the church teaching that gay people are an abomination has led to mental illnesses which can't be cured overnight. I pity these homophobes. Of course, how many gay people believed they were going to hell when they committed suicide, thanks to people like him?


    Actually (part of) the Christian church usually refers to Leviticus when teaching about gay behavior. It was written by Moses about 1445-1444 B.C. and is the third book of the Torah. So it has been a bit more than 2000 years- predates the church a bit huh?

    observe:
    220px-Aleppo_Codex_Joshua_1_1.jpg
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 08, 2015 2:36 AM GMT
    desertmuscl said
    HottJoe saidI guess 2,000 years of the church teaching that gay people are an abomination has led to mental illnesses which can't be cured overnight. I pity these homophobes. Of course, how many gay people believed they were going to hell when they committed suicide, thanks to people like him?


    Actually (part of) the Christian church usually refers to Leviticus when teaching about gay behavior. It was written by Moses about 1445-1444 B.C. and is the third book of the Torah. So it has been a bit more than 2000 years- predates the church a bit huh?

    observe:
    220px-Aleppo_Codex_Joshua_1_1.jpg

    So Jesus can't even say that he didn't know his followers would murder gay people. He knew that was the law, and he had "miraculous" prescience, and he let it happen. Pretty disgusting, really.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 08, 2015 2:54 AM GMT
    What actually happened:

    "HELLO WE ARE TWO GAYS AND ARE LOOKING FOR A BIG WEDDING CAKE PROBS WITH DICK EJACULATING A RAINBOW ON"

    "certainly! if you'll just give me your number and come to the bakery to discuss designs we can have it ready within two weeks!"

    "ON SECOND THOUGHT LET ME SHOP AROUND BYE icon_smile.gif
    (we're never gonna hit the jackpot if all these bakers are so damn tolerant! - hopefully we find someone who victimises us soon icon_sad.gif"


    At least the baker wasn't made to pay $135,000 like the lesbian cake: http://ktla.com/2015/07/04/bakery-pay-135000-wedding-cake-gay-lesbian-couple-oregon-refused-gresham/
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 08, 2015 2:58 AM GMT
    AaronH20P saidWhat actually happened:

    "HELLO WE ARE TWO GAYS AND ARE LOOKING FOR A BIG WEDDING CAKE PROBS WITH DICK EJACULATING A RAINBOW ON"

    "certainly! if you'll just give me your number and come to the bakery to discuss designs we can have it ready within two weeks!"

    "ON SECOND THOUGHT LET ME SHOP AROUND BYE icon_smile.gif
    (we're never gonna hit the jackpot if all these bakers are so damn tolerant! - hopefully we find someone who victimises us soon icon_sad.gif"


    At least the baker wasn't made to pay $135,000 like the lesbian cake: http://ktla.com/2015/07/04/bakery-pay-135000-wedding-cake-gay-lesbian-couple-oregon-refused-gresham/

    I'm guessing you've never planned a wedding. Or you just have no class.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 08, 2015 3:10 AM GMT
    HottJoe said
    AaronH20P saidWhat actually happened:

    "HELLO WE ARE TWO GAYS AND ARE LOOKING FOR A BIG WEDDING CAKE PROBS WITH DICK EJACULATING A RAINBOW ON"

    "certainly! if you'll just give me your number and come to the bakery to discuss designs we can have it ready within two weeks!"

    "ON SECOND THOUGHT LET ME SHOP AROUND BYE icon_smile.gif
    (we're never gonna hit the jackpot if all these bakers are so damn tolerant! - hopefully we find someone who victimises us soon icon_sad.gif"


    At least the baker wasn't made to pay $135,000 like the lesbian cake: http://ktla.com/2015/07/04/bakery-pay-135000-wedding-cake-gay-lesbian-couple-oregon-refused-gresham/

    I'm guessing you've never planned a wedding. Or you just have no class.


    Nah I'm just confused as to why in a country with a massive service industry that caters to gay customers: from cruises to spas, publications, sex shops and even Gay Games, these poor souls just so happen to be unfortunate enough to find an evil bigoted christian baker full of hate who refused to bake their cake.
    It takes a lot of suspension of disbelief to accept they didn't do a bit of window shopping to find a baker who would to try and get some money out of this whole drama.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 08, 2015 3:18 AM GMT
    AaronH20P said
    HottJoe said
    AaronH20P saidWhat actually happened:

    "HELLO WE ARE TWO GAYS AND ARE LOOKING FOR A BIG WEDDING CAKE PROBS WITH DICK EJACULATING A RAINBOW ON"

    "certainly! if you'll just give me your number and come to the bakery to discuss designs we can have it ready within two weeks!"

    "ON SECOND THOUGHT LET ME SHOP AROUND BYE icon_smile.gif
    (we're never gonna hit the jackpot if all these bakers are so damn tolerant! - hopefully we find someone who victimises us soon icon_sad.gif"


    At least the baker wasn't made to pay $135,000 like the lesbian cake: http://ktla.com/2015/07/04/bakery-pay-135000-wedding-cake-gay-lesbian-couple-oregon-refused-gresham/

    I'm guessing you've never planned a wedding. Or you just have no class.


    Nah I'm just confused as to why in a country with a massive service industry that caters to gay customers: from cruises to spas, publications, sex shops and even Gay Games, these poor souls just so happen to be unfortunate enough to find an evil bigoted christian baker full of hate who refused to bake their cake.
    It takes a lot of suspension of disbelief to accept they didn't do a bit of window shopping to find a baker who would to try and get some money out of this whole drama.

    You're talking about gay men like our lives revolve around gay cruises. When my husband and I got married, our families were more involved than our gay friends, and our caterer was recommended by my husband's dad. Imagine the humiliation for all involved if the caterer had suddenly taken a religious stand? Sure, we're gay, we're used to it, you might say. But it's different when it's a wedding and you're trying to make it the best day of your life.

    I just think anyone who's been married will know that it's a bigger deal than the naysayers and cynics make it out to be.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 08, 2015 3:30 AM GMT
    AaronH20P said
    HottJoe said
    AaronH20P saidWhat actually happened:

    "HELLO WE ARE TWO GAYS AND ARE LOOKING FOR A BIG WEDDING CAKE PROBS WITH DICK EJACULATING A RAINBOW ON"

    "certainly! if you'll just give me your number and come to the bakery to discuss designs we can have it ready within two weeks!"

    "ON SECOND THOUGHT LET ME SHOP AROUND BYE icon_smile.gif
    (we're never gonna hit the jackpot if all these bakers are so damn tolerant! - hopefully we find someone who victimises us soon icon_sad.gif"


    At least the baker wasn't made to pay $135,000 like the lesbian cake: http://ktla.com/2015/07/04/bakery-pay-135000-wedding-cake-gay-lesbian-couple-oregon-refused-gresham/

    I'm guessing you've never planned a wedding. Or you just have no class.


    Nah I'm just confused as to why in a country with a massive service industry that caters to gay customers: from cruises to spas, publications, sex shops and even Gay Games, these poor souls just so happen to be unfortunate enough to find an evil bigoted christian baker full of hate who refused to bake their cake.
    It takes a lot of suspension of disbelief to accept they didn't do a bit of window shopping to find a baker who would to try and get some money out of this whole drama.




    Why go into business in the first place??????? You are not going to be a successful business person if you turn away ANYONE as a potential customer, that is just business sense 101, as long as criminal behavior isn't tolerated, a business will thrive with a diverse clientele. Save the church bake sale, for the church clientele icon_rolleyes.gif

    Shark Tank failure? Bar Rescue flop?