Schools can expel students that seem gay, appeals court rules

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    Jan 28, 2009 7:37 PM GMT
    Keyword: "Seem"

    Although this is a private Christian school, it's completely unclear what criteria are used to assess that a student "seems" gay. And even if a student "seems" gay by virtue of behavioral or other observable characteristics, how does that detract from their educational mission if students are otherwise compliant with the school's code of conduct?

    http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Court_Christian_school_can_expel_lesbian_0128.html
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    Jan 28, 2009 7:48 PM GMT
    It's bonefide discrimination, no doubt.

    I doubt it will "sit" judicially for long - they could have the right to discriminate based on religous affiliation - 'Christian School refuses entry of a Jewish student'... and that is the caveat they are probabaly hinging on to pass this -- Christianity defies homosexuals and therefor a Homosexual can not be Christian and therefor is not a Christian...

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    But it's bullshit all the same.
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    Jan 28, 2009 7:49 PM GMT
    I have no problem with private institutions being selective about their membership, even if they are a band of fucking lunatics with crosses up their assholes. That is their right and I respect that. But, I also think the state board of education should not acredit schools that are run by wankers.
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    Jan 28, 2009 8:25 PM GMT
    Seriously lame. icon_confused.gif
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    Jan 28, 2009 8:50 PM GMT
    And some religious gay people wonder why the gay community seems to be "anti-religion". That has got to be one of the dumber rulings I have seen in recent years.
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    Jan 28, 2009 9:18 PM GMT
    I am going to presume that expelling the student is also based on the disruption it causes in the school by the overt appearance, and not just that the kid is gay. So if you have a school that this pounding homophobia into the kids heads and then one shows up looking tres gay, it probably causes quite a disruption.
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    Jan 28, 2009 9:24 PM GMT
    Absolutely a distraction. All those closeted lesbians mooning over the two girls. Grades plummet, girls screw up reciting Leviticus, chaos ensues! icon_twisted.gif
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    Jan 28, 2009 9:27 PM GMT
    What happened to the "home of the free" thing?
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    Jan 28, 2009 9:52 PM GMT
    Hmmm But they are a private school. They are allowed to accept students who fit their cookie-cutter view of morality and expell those who don't. They do not recieve my tax payers dollars which is all that matters to me personally.

    It is probably best for the girl anyways... get out of that environment. Moreover, the majority of people out there will see this as rediculous! It is good press for gay rights... though gay rights has nothing to do with this... it shows the public just how radical the religious right has gotten.

    Now, if the government starts to help out faith based schools... then it would be government supported discrimination in the schools. If the radical Christians want robots at their schools with no personality, character, diferrences, etc. let them have it.

    Soon some of those student will start to rebel as well.... you can't keep kids away from the American culture no matter what a parent does. Hopefully she goes to public school... or a non-religious private school.

    But Religious schools have the right to admit and expell whoever they wish... they just can't go asking Congress for my money and support.
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    Jan 28, 2009 9:55 PM GMT
    ^

    True. I'd encourage the girls to start acting lesbian and get the heck out of that penitentiary.
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    Jan 28, 2009 9:57 PM GMT
    What are the priests at these schools going to do now? It's going to be harder to recognize who would make a good altar boy.

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    Jan 28, 2009 10:14 PM GMT
    The rights of "private" clubs, schools, organizations have long been preserved by the courts.

    Think about religion as a private club. If you don't hold with the views of the church, they'll throw you out. Any business can refuse to do business with anyone for whatever reason...gyms,...country clubs...consultants...do it every day.

    If a "private" school has its own rules, and does NOT receive federal funds, they can pretty much do whatever they want. You can have all white girl schools, all boy schools, and so on. If fact, those very cases exist all over the country.

    The US Boys Scouts is an interesting organization. BSA was created by Congressional charter and receives lots of accommodation from a variety of various government agencies, BUT...the BSA forbids homosexuals, and pushes religion. BSA, based in Irving, Texas, right up the road from me, is heavily influenced by The LDS Church. BSA even had a whole show dedicated to it on Penn and Teller's "Bullshit" on HBO. E.g. BSA rents some federal properties for $1.00.

    Should an agency that receives federal funds, and favors, be allowed to discriminate? Most of us would say no, I think.

    Now, should Black-only colleges be allowed? Should boys only schools be allowed? Should religious schools be allowed to teach their own doctrine as they see to fit and to establish certain customs and conduct? Most of us would probably say yes.

    Freedom typically cuts both ways. Private organizations are private for a reason. They are MEANT to be exclusive. As long as they don't take from the public coffers, or get a load of tax breaks, I think they can do what they want within a range of sensibility. Of course, few of us would argue that the KKK is not a nice private group, but...here's the kicker, should we deny them the right to assemble because the majority hold them in disapproval?

    Churches are an interesting case. They're tax free, for the most part, yet, support ideas many of us don't approve of. Should that be allowed? Maybe not. What about the ministers making millions? Should that be tax free?

    Churches and the BSA hold a fascinating place in the system.

    I say, treat everyone the same, with regard to taxes, and tax breaks, and discrimination law. Apply the rules the same across the board. The law of the land is not that way though.
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    Jan 28, 2009 11:08 PM GMT
    There is an upside here. Some kids who "seem" gay will actually BE gay. They'll be in a much healthier environment if they're not surrounded by the haters.
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    Jan 28, 2009 11:09 PM GMT
    The schools and the court did these kids a favor. In a couple years, this school will cease to exist. We won't be surprised or wonder why.
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    Jan 29, 2009 6:32 PM GMT
    Instead of bitching about this court decision, maybe the gay community can get together and start its own gay private educational institutions! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jan 29, 2009 6:35 PM GMT
    Maverick75 saidInstead of bitching about this court decision, maybe the gay community can get together and start its own gay private educational institutions! icon_biggrin.gif


    Touche'. Any takers out their in academia/education willing to explore this?
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    Jan 29, 2009 6:44 PM GMT
    BodyWork4 saidIt's bonefide discrimination, no doubt.

    I doubt it will "sit" judicially for long - they could have the right to discriminate based on religous affiliation - 'Christian School refuses entry of a Jewish student'... and that is the caveat they are probabaly hinging on to pass this -- Christianity defies homosexuals and therefor a Homosexual can not be Christian and therefor is not a Christian...

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    But it's bullshit all the same.



    what cracks me up about this is that on the one hand, 'christians' snidely condescend to try to 'save' us and embrace the sinner, not the sin- saying things like how deeply they 'love' us.... they just want us to be something else. their point being that jesus's love is for everyone..... even if some have to work a lot harder and make bigger sacrifices for it lol. then, on the other hand, u have church condoned actions like this one that send the clear message that gays are damned, unwelcome, and hopeless- less than second class in their eyes and unworthy of so many things. what are we to think? at their most congenial, staunch christians rub most of us the wrong way and are about the most irritatingly sanctimoniously ignorant peons i can imagine.... but then they send these mixed messages about christ's love and shoot their entire effort at seeming congenial all to hell.

    well, if there IS a magical paradise after death that requires having 'gotten the big picture' right.... u can be sure that not a one of these assholes will find themselves there lol.

    not much to do about them while alive though. aside from blasphemously flouting their silly faith in their faces. we don't need it.
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    Jan 29, 2009 6:52 PM GMT
    Maverick75 saidInstead of bitching about this court decision, maybe the gay community can get together and start its own gay private educational institutions! icon_biggrin.gif

    You want to use children to make a statement and promote gay agenda? You going to send an old gay dude in wheelchair around the world to invite gay youths to come to his school for homosexuals?
    xmen.jpg
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    Jan 29, 2009 8:51 PM GMT
    ruck_us said
    Maverick75 saidInstead of bitching about this court decision, maybe the gay community can get together and start its own gay private educational institutions! icon_biggrin.gif


    Touche'. Any takers out their in academia/education willing to explore this?


    I think it is a terrible idea. Gay students don't need an exclusively gay environment to learn in and the few schools in the country that specifically cater to GLBTQ youth do so when other schools cannot guarantee a safe learning environment. It is a last resort often.

    Separating ourselves from the hetero masses will only increase our stigma. Research shows more liberal attitudes of hets towards homosexuality. It also shows people coming out at younger and younger ages. You don't get that sort of enormously positive development by retreating from the world like these schools are, rather from engaging with it.
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    Jan 29, 2009 9:07 PM GMT
    cjcscuba1984 said
    It is probably best for the girl anyways... get out of that environment.


    Well, since they were expelled in 2005, I'd guess they'd be out of there by now anyway. icon_wink.gif

    I agree with everyone who says this school, as a private institution, should have the right to expel students who don't fit the school's narrow definition of appropriate, but it shouldn't get tax breaks if it does that. It's really long past time for this country to end all of the breaks that religious organizations get.

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    Jan 29, 2009 11:21 PM GMT
    ruck_us said
    Maverick75 saidInstead of bitching about this court decision, maybe the gay community can get together and start its own gay private educational institutions! icon_biggrin.gif


    Touche'. Any takers out their in academia/education willing to explore this?


    They are actually 2 examples in the public school system, one in Milwaukee and one in NYC. Going to a private system, I think they could provide our gay students with more knowledge about themselves and gay history and gay studies in general. And let's not forget about other issues; according to the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, 86.2 percent of gay youth were verbally harassed in the past year and 22.1 percent were victims of physical assaults at school. The following article I've posted show great improvement in students school performance in providing a harassment free environment as well as having other programs designed to help them cope with their homosexuality. The students at these gay high schools get the education they need to survive in a society that hates them for who they are.

    Here's an article that discusses pros & cons for gay schools: mostly pros
    http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/2008/12/31/gay-high-schools-offer-a-haven-from-bullies.html

    And here's a link about the Harvey Milk high in NYC.
    http://www.hmi.org/OurImpact.aspx
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    Jan 29, 2009 11:47 PM GMT
    From the homepage article

    beachbum248, exactly. There are already schools like that, the school cited by Maverick75 being one of them. Gay schools are a temporary solution at best, remember our aim in the long run is to completely eradicate homophobia, rather than promote it by segregating us even more. The problem is when teachers themselves are homophobic, and of course, the ubiquitous school concern - bullying. You do not solve that by running away.

    Harvey Milk school itself is NOT an exclusively gay school, it's designed for at-risk youth regardless of sexual orientation. It's just that it's gay youth who are most at risk of bullying.

    In addition, educating students on exclusively gay studies is really not a good idea. Want more hetero accusations that we are brainwashing kids? We are GLBTQ but it is not a way of life and certainly not dogma. We do not go about teaching it to children like the way religious schools indoctrinate their own students. The best way you can go about it is to offer voluntary subjects on matters like that to interested students and not make it part of the curriculum.

    Build more liberal schools, hope those smarmy old bigoted teachers die out and take their ideas with them, and let students learn what acceptance and tolerance really mean. Challenge the 'norm' rather than cower away in an artificial haven. We do not need to educate only the GLBTQ youth, but the heteros as well. Because if we ignore our straight counterparts, sooner or later, when our GLBTQ youth graduate they'll find out that the world will be exactly as they left it.
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    Jan 30, 2009 12:01 AM GMT
    If it's a private institution, they can legally discriminate. Your best bet is to go to a public school not tied to religion .
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    Jan 30, 2009 12:06 AM GMT
    While I'm disturbed by the shame the expelled students might feel, in the long run they're better off. The fewer people who are subjected to the ignorant, bigoted, near-hysterical attitude toward human sexuality that such a school cultivates, the better.

    The pursuit of purity almost always leads to self destruction because it's an unattainable ideal, whether racial, physical, artistic, moral or religious/doctrinal. So let them expel away.

    And I'm with MunchingZombie...they shouldn't be accredited.
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    Jan 30, 2009 12:10 AM GMT
    flex89 saidIf it's a private institution, they can legally discriminate. Your best bet is to go to a public school not tied to religion .


    Maybe to a degree, but what does "seems gay" mean? Who sets the criteria?