Wow. Very moving speech about the Confederate Flag.

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    Jul 11, 2015 1:32 AM GMT
    It was only 3 minutes but man was it powerful. From a personal perspective, it was great to see someone who may not necessarily see the world through my lens take the time out to try and then to teach others. I think a speech like this will happen very soon for gays as well.

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    Jul 11, 2015 2:17 PM GMT
    Thanks for posting that excellent speech. Usually, I'm not one for emotional displays in debate, but this powerful speaker used them and all the relevant facts to advantage. And, she's a Republican woman, descended from Democrat Jefferson Davis, no less! Thanks again.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 11, 2015 4:30 PM GMT
    Very stirring speech and raw emotions. I got choked up.
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    Jul 11, 2015 7:46 PM GMT
    I'm a little confused about this issue. So some racists hijacked a flag and used it for a bad purpose....which now makes the flag bad? To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) the confederate flag had nothing to do with racism. Does this mean if someone killed a bunch of gay people while in the presence of the rainbow flag, would we ban that flag also?

    Our current national flag flew over our slave nation for 85 years, so why not ban it also?
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Jul 11, 2015 10:27 PM GMT
    The bottom line is that flying the Confederate flag on the Capitol grounds is hurting South Carolina's image and it is hindering its ability to attract business and industry. The flag itself is not racist but it has been flown repeatedly at KKK rallies, and is one of the symbols used by white supremacists so it has become a very offensive symbol over the years. It is time to take down that flag and relegate it to a museum collection. It is also time for Mississippi to redesign its state flag by permanently eradicating the stars and bars.
  • waccamatt

    Posts: 1918

    Jul 12, 2015 4:22 AM GMT
    I live in South Carolina and the flag never should have flown on top of the State House or on the State House grounds at all. It was placed there in the early 60's as an in-your-face response to the civil rights era and the end of Jim Crow Laws. I live in Columbia and I know no one who wanted it there - it was supported by rural interests for the most part who still live in the 1800's. I can now take photos around our beautiful capitol building and I won't have to use Photoshop to edit out that disgusting rag.
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    Jul 12, 2015 4:33 AM GMT
    Radd saidI'm a little confused about this issue. So some racists hijacked a flag and used it for a bad purpose....which now makes the flag bad? To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) the confederate flag had nothing to do with racism. Does this mean if someone killed a bunch of gay people while in the presence of the rainbow flag, would we ban that flag also?

    Our current national flag flew over our slave nation for 85 years, so why not ban it also?


    *facepalm*
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    Jul 12, 2015 4:42 AM GMT
    The swastika has roots in far eastern culture, yet because it was used by the Nazis, it's now viewed as a symbol of racism and hate.

    Even if you do think the Confederate flag is not racist, it's still a symbol of an anti-American, secessionist force that started a war. Why should any state capitol be flying the symbol of a secessionist force. It's not a noble cause to start a war that takes lives just because you are too damn cheap to pay for labor or scrub your own damn floors. Slavery the main issue that started the Civil War, because they believed that states rights gave them the right to enslave other human beings for labor.

    This bill was about taking it down from the state house, so everyone who wants to fly a confederate flag free to do so, it just won't be flown on the state capitol grounds. As previously mentioned, the intent of it being there was a response to anti-segregation laws, so that alone means it should be brought down.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Jul 12, 2015 12:34 PM GMT
    Now the real challenge lies ahead and that is to get Mississippi to redesign its state flag which still has the offensive stars and bars in it.icon_idea.gif
  • SuntoryTime

    Posts: 656

    Jul 12, 2015 1:55 PM GMT
    Radd saidI'm a little confused about this issue. So some racists hijacked a flag and used it for a bad purpose....which now makes the flag bad? To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) the confederate flag had nothing to do with racism. Does this mean if someone killed a bunch of gay people while in the presence of the rainbow flag, would we ban that flag also?

    Our current national flag flew over our slave nation for 85 years, so why not ban it also?


    Does this clear up the confusion?

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-white-mans-flag

    yxovanhpqed8ppqahwgd.jpg

    From siteThis is the national flag of the Confederacy as it existed from the Spring of 1863 until just weeks before the end of the war in 1865. Note that this flag was adopted not long after the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation.

    Why was it called the "White Man's Flag"?

    Well, because that's the name given to it by the guy who designed it, William T. Thompson, the editor of the Savannah Morning News (then known as the Daily Morning News).

    Actually born in Ohio, Thompson designed the flag and editorialized on its behalf repeatedly in the paper he edited: "As a people, we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." And then in a later editorial, he cheered the design as one that will "be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN's FLAG." And then finally "As a national emblem it is significant of our higher cause [,] the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity and barbarism."

    This actually echoed, albeit less eloquently the infamous words of Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens who argued that white supremacy was the foundation upon which the Confederacy was built. "Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [to that of the United States Constitution]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
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    Jul 12, 2015 5:04 PM GMT
    Oy, that vid. And they call us dramatic. I agree with the sentiment but found the presentation as disagreeable as...



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    Jul 12, 2015 10:11 PM GMT
    Great speech and thanks for posting.

    It was also a reminder that the work of reconciliation between North and South started earlier and yet shame that some Southern States, never got the notion of what Abraham was trying to convey, rather they use flags or other symbols to institute division, hatred, etc., and continue the struggle of division, if you ever go to the Abraham Lincoln Memorial in Washington, DC. which I recently did what Woodfordr posted...it brought me back to thinking of his prominent second inaugural speech that Lincoln did within days of the Civil War ending and yet we are still struggling with this issue as a nation.

    Read the inscription if you ever get a chance to go.... to me the memorial was a very solemn place to reflect , he knew that the nation was torn and was NOT punishing the South but rather trying to heal the nation and bring it back to a Union.

    With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation’s wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan—to do all which may achieve and cherish a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations.
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    Jul 13, 2015 3:11 AM GMT
    Radd saidI'm a little confused about this issue. So some racists hijacked a flag and used it for a bad purpose....which now makes the flag bad? To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) the confederate flag had nothing to do with racism. Does this mean if someone killed a bunch of gay people while in the presence of the rainbow flag, would we ban that flag also?

    Our current national flag flew over our slave nation for 85 years, so why not ban it also?



    You raise some interesting questions that would certainly be understandable for someone who just arrived in this country.

    But for a long time resident of the South, you seem embarrassingly naive.

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    Jul 14, 2015 5:29 AM GMT
    FitnessWorker said
    Radd saidI'm a little confused about this issue. So some racists hijacked a flag and used it for a bad purpose....which now makes the flag bad? To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) the confederate flag had nothing to do with racism. Does this mean if someone killed a bunch of gay people while in the presence of the rainbow flag, would we ban that flag also?

    Our current national flag flew over our slave nation for 85 years, so why not ban it also?



    You raise some interesting questions that would certainly be understandable for someone who just arrived in this country.

    But for a long time resident of the South, you seem embarrassingly naive.



    He's not as naive as he'd like you to think. And neither are we.
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    Jul 15, 2015 3:41 AM GMT
    SuntoryTime said
    Radd saidI'm a little confused about this issue. So some racists hijacked a flag and used it for a bad purpose....which now makes the flag bad? To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) the confederate flag had nothing to do with racism. Does this mean if someone killed a bunch of gay people while in the presence of the rainbow flag, would we ban that flag also?

    Our current national flag flew over our slave nation for 85 years, so why not ban it also?


    Does this clear up the confusion?

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-white-mans-flag

    yxovanhpqed8ppqahwgd.jpg

    From siteThis is the national flag of the Confederacy as it existed from the Spring of 1863 until just weeks before the end of the war in 1865. Note that this flag was adopted not long after the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation.

    Why was it called the "White Man's Flag"?

    Well, because that's the name given to it by the guy who designed it, William T. Thompson, the editor of the Savannah Morning News (then known as the Daily Morning News).

    Actually born in Ohio, Thompson designed the flag and editorialized on its behalf repeatedly in the paper he edited: "As a people, we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." And then in a later editorial, he cheered the design as one that will "be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN's FLAG." And then finally "As a national emblem it is significant of our higher cause [,] the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity and barbarism."

    This actually echoed, albeit less eloquently the infamous words of Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens who argued that white supremacy was the foundation upon which the Confederacy was built. "Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [to that of the United States Constitution]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."


    If this article is really true, then I would have to change my mind about taking down the flag. Everything I've ever read about the flag was that it was simply a battle flag. If it truly has racist roots, then yes it should not fly over any flag pole.
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    Jul 15, 2015 4:36 AM GMT
    994570_10151754547427440_1392298077_n.jp

    http://tbo.com/ap/offbeat2/kickstarter-aims-to-overshadow-giant-i-75-confederate-flag-with-larger-unity-flag-20150708/
    Kickstarter aims to overshadow giant I-75 Confederate flag with larger ‘unity flag’
    AR-150709339.jpg
    As a Confederate flag touted as the “world’s largest” continues to fly above a busy section of Interstate 75 in Hillsborough County, a Kickstarter campaign has appeared with the stated goal of raising an even larger “unity flag” directly across the street.

    That flag would feature a red, white and blue hand forming a peace sign and the words “stand against racism,” according to the website.

    The campaign launched by Harmony Branch, “a group of concerned citizens from Tampa Bay/Bradenton/Sarasota,” according to the Kickstarter bio, has raised slightly more than $3,000...


    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/36243065/giant-unity-flag-for-i-4-i-75-interchange?ref=nav_search
    63 backers
    $4,255 pledged of $65,000 goal
    10 days to go

    About this project

    Tampa, St. Pete, Clearwater, Seminole, Bradenton, Brandon, Sarasota, Venice...we're better than this.

    When families drive from Orlando parks to our wonderful beaches, they see the biggest rebel flag in the world. It's on private property and considered free speech. Fair enough. Let's share a message with visitors and our own community that reflects the real nature of our area.

    The funds are needed to:

    Purchase land: $20,000
    Submit Building Permit: $300
    Erect Pole: $35,000
    Create Flag: $4,000
    Rewards and opening ceremony: $5700

    Risks and challenges

    We are in the process of negotiating land and building permits. This is not only an installation, but a catalyst for local conversation about the giant rebel flag, which has been broadly ignored. We need to strike while the iron is hot with the national news covering the debate around the rebel flag, and this is the perfect project to move that debate home to Tampa Bay.