Why are you a Liberal?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 21, 2015 9:04 PM GMT
    I am trying to see the positives here???
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 21, 2015 9:18 PM GMT
    Because I just can't bring myself to hate people as much as Conservatives tend to do.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 21, 2015 9:22 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidBecause I just can't bring myself to hate people as much as Conservatives tend to do.


    Do you think they really all hate us??

    Interesting times we are dealing with. The people have approved Gay Marriage along with the Supreme Court, it's now the Law of the Land. What should be tackled next?

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    Jul 21, 2015 10:57 PM GMT
    Because I believe we have a moral and ethical responsibility to ensure that there is a safety net for those in need in society.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jul 21, 2015 11:23 PM GMT

    Interesting times we are dealing with. The people have approved Gay Marriage along with the Supreme Court, it's now the Law of the Land. What should be tackled next?

    Total workplace & public accommodation equality.

    But to answer your question: I'm a liberal because

    - my life experience has taught me to empathize;
    - because I believe in helping the less fortunate without the presupposition that they're lazy or up to something;
    - because today's conservatives seem to be against far more than they're for, and because they preach small government but want to impose their beliefs on the rest of us (yes, we won in court, but conservatives everywhere are still doing all they can to deny us rights);
    - because I think the very rich are far too 1)rich and 2) powerful;
    - because I perceive conservatives as both mean and complacent;
    - because too many conservative politicians incite division and resentment
    - because I am anti-violence and anti-war and perceive conservatives as diehard hawks who also support stupid gun nuts
    - because I perceive conservatives as pandering to the lowest common denominator when they don't really give a damn
    - because I conceive liberalism as by far the more Christian way of approaching people and problems.
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    Jul 22, 2015 7:41 AM GMT
    - Because it's about bloody time we do something about the environment.
    - Human Rights are always more important than any #%$!@# tradition, period.
    - Elected officials should give a damn if their constituents hate them. A corporation and its officials won't lose their jobs if their neighbors don't like them- profits matter more to them. Government will always be leaps more accountable than business groups.
    - Socialism penalizes both the rich and poor if they rather not put any effort into society. Capitalism does as well, but is far more lenient on the rich, and makes it easier for them to hoard their wealth for no actual benefit than greed.
    - Socialism also puts more emphasis on equal opportunity.
    - Because Left views like to give people the power of choice.
    - The Left are more accepting and less afraid of diversity.
    - Liberals care that the 99% in the Occupy movements are being controlled by the 1%.
    - Liberals give more shits if education isn't being funded enough.
    - And finally, God forbid anything goes wrong in our society, (which is always), the Left don't freeze up at the idea that the current system is the problem. The word "change" doesn't make them crap themselves. They find far more innovative solutions to problems with the overall consideration brought in favour of the many.
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    Jul 22, 2015 8:22 AM GMT
    duluthrunner saidBecause I believe we have a moral and ethical responsibility to ensure that there is a safety net for those in need in society.

    ^^^This.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Jul 22, 2015 8:26 AM GMT
    Because I had the incredible good luck to be born into a LIBERAL Democracy (if you Wikiers need any help, see below), which ought to be concentrating on the LIBERAL principles it was founded on. But as conservatives are fond of saying, if you don't like it, feel free to pack up and move from my LIBERAL democracy to the CONSERVATIVE one below:

    "Liberal democracy is a form of government in which representative democracy operates under the principles of liberalism, i.e. protecting the rights of the individual, which are generally enshrined in law. It is characterised by fair, free, and competitive elections between multiple distinct political parties, a separation of powers into different branches of government, the rule of law in everyday life as part of an open society, and the equal protection of human rights, civil rights, civil liberties, and political freedoms for all persons. To define the system in practice, liberal democracies often draw upon a constitution, either formally written or uncodified, to delineate the powers of government and enshrine the social contract. After a period of sustained expansion throughout the 20th century, liberal democracy became the predominant political system in the world."

    I wasn't born into a CONSERVATIVE Democracy:

    "Conservative democracy (Turkish: Muhafazakâr demokrasi ) is a term coined by the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) of Turkey to describe their prevailing political outlook on social and moral issues. Forming as a modernist break-away party from former Islamist movements, the AKP's conservative democratic ideology has been described as a departure from or moderation of Islamic democracy and the endorsement of more secular and democratic values. The electoral success and the Neo-Ottoman foreign policy of the AKP that aims to broaden Turkey's regional influence has led to the party's conservative democratic ideals to be mirrored in other countries, such as by the Justice and Development Party in Morocco and the Ennahda Movement in Tunisia."
  • jockdude

    Posts: 93

    Jul 22, 2015 9:49 AM GMT
    because logic and facts make more sense than lies.
  • jockdude

    Posts: 93

    Jul 22, 2015 9:52 AM GMT
    demiguy12 said(list)
    killin it with this post. everything is so accurate.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Jul 22, 2015 10:09 AM GMT
    I agree with everything demi has on his list, but let's not do exactly what "The Right" (and that's what THEY are) are counting on us to do:

    Is China liberal, left, or socialist?
    How about the former Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc?

    The word is LIBERAL, from the word for what the right thinks it is expert in: Freedom.

    It's not LIBERAL to think a corporation is an "individual" (Citizens United); THAT'S Socialism (nigh on state-enterprise Communism). "Socialism" is an easier case, but "Left" can also smack of totalitarianism. And that's not what LIBERAL means; and Sean Hannity and his idiot Australian boss don't get to define, for me, what LIBERALISM is.

    But they don't want us to use the word anymore, because if "the folks" went and wikied "Liberal democracy".... "Well, gee, honey, isn't that sorta, kinda, you know, what us Americans have...here?"

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 22, 2015 10:50 AM GMT
    WrestlerBoy saidIt's not LIBERAL to think a corporation is an "individual" (Citizens United); THAT'S Socialism (nigh on state-enterprise Communism). "Socialism" is an easier case, but "Left" can also smack of totalitarianism. And that's not what LIBERAL means; and Sean Hannity and his idiot Australian boss don't get to define, for me, what LIBERALISM is.

    But they don't want us to use the word anymore, because if "the folks" went and wikied "Liberal democracy".... "Well, gee, honey, isn't that sorta, kinda, you know, what us Americans have...here?"


    Socialism and Communism, as concepts drawn originally by Karl Marx, NOT Totalitarian governments, are not necessarily bad ideas. If you picture these regimes when you use those words, you don't understand them. They were not true Communist states.

    My issue with Communism is the simple fact that absolute human equal opportunity (which in a nut shell is the entire idea, just free of government wholly) spread throughout everything might be possible, but not in the state of our world today. For Communism to work, equally divided wealth to be shared and maintained virtually must be a complete consensus. Right now, people are too greedy for that to ever work out.

    But all Socialism really is, is a system where Government owns, maintains and regulates a public service for the people. This isn't Communism. This isn't Communism by any standard, because that particular idea is far more extreme. For the record, Canada might not necessarily openly identify a Socialist state (especially with our current Prime Minister), but we definitely have Socialist practices here. Really all it boils down to, is Big Government versus Small Government, and Regulation versus Privatization.

    We have a lot of hydroelectric dams where I come from. The Province has a network where its energy has a flat cost, and our energy largely stays within the Province, so we don't really need to worry about competition buying out the plants. Basically, our Left government is putting their own people first. The Right opposition wants to privatize the dams, saying more money can come in if we just strike deals and sell off our energy to other provinces and the United States. In the meantime, if the private groups want to hike Electric bill prices, they won't exactly have any competition. So in other words, we, the People, would be SOLed in the privatization process.

    The last time our Right provincial party formed a government, which was decades ago, they did that to our telephone service, which was publicly owned back then. It took years before other phone competitors came to our region and prices became decently reasonable again.



    TL;DR...

    Communism/Socialism are not the same even remotely. Nor are they bad words. Americans especially have a rather alarming stigma of them, when most of them don't even really know what the ideas truly are. They don't get that totalitarian states that claimed to be Communist... really weren't.

    As far as Socialism is concerned? We practice parts of it in Canada. We have some Government owned services, and typically a lot of taxes. The benefit? I don't need to pay for things like Health Care the way Americans do. I have more insurance claims without having to go to 10 different businesses. It's a very Left-Winged Liberal idea. I'm not sure how often Americans actually talk about Karl Marx, but, you know. Just in case we don't confuse him with say, Joesph Stalin.

    (P.S. Sorry to rant like this, but it really pushes my buttons when people compare Socialism especially to "totalitarian" stuff, when I live right next door, country speaking, to the person saying it.)
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Jul 22, 2015 11:06 AM GMT
    And it presses mine when those of us on the "right side of history" help the enemies of freedom ("The Right") by playing into their hands to conflate often clearly ("sometimes" not) philosophies.

    I didn't need the lecture on the finer points of the differences between Socialism and Communism; my philosophy degree before law school lead me to do that adequately enough.

    We are either interested in practical solutions to the world's practical problems, or we're interested in "making our point". They're counting on us doing the latter... as you just did.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Jul 22, 2015 11:27 AM GMT
    @demi^^ "But all Socialism really is, is a system where Government owns, maintains and regulates a public service for the people. This isn't Communism. This isn't Communism by any standard, because that particular idea is far more extreme. For the record, Canada might not necessarily openly identify a Socialist state (especially with our current Prime Minister), but we definitely have Socialist practices here. Really all it boils down to, is Big Government versus Small Government, and Regulation versus Privatization."

    Oh no it isn't. Socialism is not a "system" and neither is capitalism. Socialism is a "belief", a belief that human beings were (basically) meant to "succeed" by cooperating with each other. And capitalism is a "belief" that human beings were (basically) meant to "succeed" by competing with each other.

    Ask yourself which of those two beliefs you actually believe in, and you'll know if you're a "socialist", or not.

    And what do you think the United States is? We're a "federation", just like Canada, in that sense. Meaning wealthier states (Massachusetts, Connecticut?) send money to Washington which then pays for the school systems in poorer states, such as Mississippi and Louisiana. As an expert in "socialism and communism", you'll know that's called "redistribution of wealth", a basic tenet of socialism. And we do it all the time in the U.S. What you're not "understanding" is, different "systems" have different names...for the same thing.

    More thought; less labeling, maybe?
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    Jul 22, 2015 11:33 AM GMT
    2bnaked said
    paulflexes saidBecause I just can't bring myself to hate people as much as Conservatives tend to do.


    Do you think they really all hate us??
    Not all, but most.

    2bnaked saidInteresting times we are dealing with. The people have approved Gay Marriage along with the Supreme Court, it's now the Law of the Land. What should be tackled next?

    Racism...particularly in law enforcement.
  • Antarktis

    Posts: 213

    Jul 22, 2015 11:51 AM GMT
    liberal and conservative democrats tend to be in favor of amending the 14th amendment to dissolve corporations of their personhood, though under the 5th they already aren't protected against self-incrimination.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 22, 2015 12:00 PM GMT
    From where I came there is now political uprising. There are liberal party and others, if they win the next election, they will be forming the next government based on liberal ideas. I can not mention the names and nation and state. Because there is a huge chance that probably I will be deleted from this site.
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    Jul 22, 2015 12:48 PM GMT
    Liberal Accomplishments:

    A Liberal governed city burned and looted by its own Liberal residents:



    Selling baby parts:


    Negotiating a price for baby parts:


    A hypocritical environmental policy supporting the transport of oil via unsafe rail cars:


    Toxic Solar Panels:


    Unsafe Solar Panels:


    The murder of Americans by illegal aliens:


    Obamacare's Medicare Cuts:


    Obama won't add a dime to the deficit:
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Jul 22, 2015 12:56 PM GMT
    mx5guynj saidLiberal Accomplishments:

    A Liberal governed city burned and looted by its own Liberal residents:



    Selling baby parts:


    Negotiating a price for baby parts:


    A hypocritical environmental policy supporting the transport of oil via unsafe rail cars:


    Toxic Solar Panels:


    Unsafe Solar Panels:


    The murder of Americans by illegal aliens:


    Obamacare's Medicare Cuts:


    Obama won't add a dime to the deficit:


    Fraid not. YOU don't get to define "Liberal": Locke, Hume, Madison, maybe. But I'll be very interested to hear YOUR arguments against "their" definitions of "liberal"? I'm waiting....... icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 22, 2015 1:51 PM GMT
    its a homosexual thing:
    back in the 90's conservative or liberal they all hated us. Not that way since 2008. If your out of the closet the line is drawn and you cant go back.

    The 90's was a very long time ago
    even 2008; history
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 22, 2015 2:29 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidBecause I just can't bring myself to hate people as much as Conservatives tend to do.


    And as you can see liberals tend to be tolerant, compassionate and non-judgmental.
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    Jul 22, 2015 3:15 PM GMT
    mx5guynj saidLiberal Accomplishments:

    A Liberal governed city burned and looted by its own Liberal residents: the looters are not liberal, as if you could determine that from either a video or "reporting"
    Selling baby parts: not even close to the truth
    Negotiating a price for baby parts: highly edited, not even close to the truth
    A hypocritical environmental policy supporting the transport of oil via unsafe rail cars: not a liberal policy
    Toxic Solar Panels: not manufactured by liberals
    Unsafe Solar Panels: again, not manufactured by liberals
    The murder of Americans by illegal aliens: which is who's fault? The liberals who pulled the trigger? Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why weren't you aborted?
    Obamacare's Medicare Cuts: completely inaccurate; there were no "cuts;" this money was from efficiencies the law created in the Medicare system...but how would you know that listening to Rush Limbaugh?
    Obama won't add a dime to the deficit: hmmm, since the deficit is shrinking; and Obama isn't a liberal (not that you'd know that either, since Fox News, drudge & Rush Limbaugh are your news sources


    Actually, whatever video you post, it's misleading, outdated, right-wing propaganda, or outright wrong. You don't get to define liberalism when your sources are suspect, naive, or lying.

    Perhaps this shit is satisfying for you. Is this what makes you a conservative...the mouth-breathing eagerness to swallow the shit these corrupt "information" outlets shovel your way?
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Jul 22, 2015 4:32 PM GMT
    desertmuscl said
    paulflexes saidBecause I just can't bring myself to hate people as much as Conservatives tend to do.


    And as you can see liberals tend to be tolerant, compassionate and non-judgmental.


    Why don't you just claim "T" comes right after "B" in the alphabet? Your "statement" would be just as inane.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 22, 2015 4:53 PM GMT
    mx5guynj saidLiberal Accomplishments:

    A Liberal Black governed city burned and looted by its own Liberal Black residents:



    ∆ Fixed that for you. I think that's what you're really trying to say, right?
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jul 22, 2015 5:20 PM GMT
    desertmuscl said
    paulflexes saidBecause I just can't bring myself to hate people as much as Conservatives tend to do.


    And as you can see liberals tend to be tolerant, compassionate and non-judgmental.


    Being tolerant and compassionate does not mean you can't make judgement calls.