Getting MSM off the list of people at "high risk"

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 29, 2009 3:28 AM GMT
    icon_confused.gif it personally has always bothered me that officially gay men are listed as "high risk for HIV/AIDS"


    according to who?!

    i have sex with men and I wouldn't consider myself at high risk because I-

    1. always wear a condom
    2. only have sex with HIV- guys
    3. don't ever exchange body fluids to put it innocently haha

    i think it should be removed because honestly it only adds to the stigmatism that HIV is a 'gay disease' because it kinda SAYS IT IN PLAIN SIGHT

    it has much more to do with sexual behavior than orientation. if anal sex is the issue, than why doesn't it just say that? heterosexuals have anal sex as well.
  • MotorBrett

    Posts: 145

    Jan 29, 2009 6:04 AM GMT
    Men who have sex with men have a statistically higher chance of HIV transmission than their heterosexual counterparts.

    This is due to microscopic trauma of the anal-lining during anal sex.

    It's a fact. Get over it.

    I'd rather have gay men be aware they are at a higher risk than have a greater incidence of HIV transmission over embarrassment.

    This will change their sexual habits. I will use you per example.

    And I quote:

    "1. always wear a condom
    2. only have sex with HIV- guys
    3. don't ever exchange body fluids to put it innocently haha?"

    Sorry, that you are attempting to be safe. But the facts remain:

    1. Condoms BREAK.
    2. During ACUTE HIV infection people TEST NEGATIVE and are MOST INFECTIOUS.
    3. Sometimes we slip up and BODY FLUIDS GET EXCHANGED.

    Brett ;)



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 29, 2009 6:31 AM GMT
    so what about women who have anal sex with men?

    and none of my condoms have broken. how often do you hear about that happening? i use durex or trojan usually and those are electronically tested. plus with lube it's a pretty negligible chance it's going to break

    and i'm not stupid enough to believe someone is HIV- just because they say they are. i'm a monogamous person who is interested in other monogamous people. if i've been dating them for a while, and we've established we've both been exclusive... where's the risk in that?

    see, that was my point. people who have receptive anal sex are at risk. not just gay men, but also women who receive. get it now?

    i just think it adds to the stigma
  • hartfan

    Posts: 1037

    Jan 29, 2009 7:31 AM GMT
    While I agree that it adds to the stigma, and you seem to be taking the right precautions, in public health the best course is what works and not what makes people feel most comfortable. You need to take the most pragmatic way to curb the spread of HIV, and if statistically transmission rate among gay men is one of the highest, then public education and other measures need to target that group.

    Think of another scenario where a highly infectious disease is most prevalent among members of a certain ethnic group, perhaps because of incidental factors such as geography and living conditions, would you rather not acknowledge that you need to target that group and save lives than shy away by using less effective methods because you're afraid to be labeled racist? This really isn't about sexual orientation, or race, or any other criteria, but about what best prevents disease. And I really can't complain when such public health efforts are helping to prevent the spread of HIV in a community I'm a part of.
  • MotorBrett

    Posts: 145

    Jan 29, 2009 8:48 AM GMT
    exileayahika saidso what about women who have anal sex with men?

    and none of my condoms have broken. how often do you hear about that happening? i use durex or trojan usually and those are electronically tested. plus with lube it's a pretty negligible chance it's going to break

    and i'm not stupid enough to believe someone is HIV- just because they say they are. i'm a monogamous person who is interested in other monogamous people. if i've been dating them for a while, and we've established we've both been exclusive... where's the risk in that?

    see, that was my point. people who have receptive anal sex are at risk. not just gay men, but also women who receive. get it now?

    i just think it adds to the stigma


    DO YOU NOT GET IT?

    You don't know if your condom has a microscopic tear. You won't see it.

    As to you being that stupid or not about your partner's HIV status:

    The Western Blot (most frequently used for blood drawn HIV tests) tests for antibodies to proteins on HIV.

    But for a time after initial infection while your body is replicating HIV unchecked, your "HIV-" partner who you just got tested with may still actually be HIV+.

    They have just yet to sero-convert (look that term up).

    Furthermore the term MSM refers to MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN.

    They don't say MSM as in "Men who have monogamous sex with one man".

    They mean sexually active men who have sex with men (plural). And there is a higher risk with that.

    It is a large group of people that have a much higher risk of transmission for HIV.

    There is no stigma to it. Unless you want to be embarrassed about an innate biological risk and the active risks of guys that are having multiple sex partners.

    And, guess what, they also say that HIV High Risk individuals are intravenous drug users, because they have a higher incidence of HIV transmission. But the ones that don't share needles have less transmission.

    SO GET OVER IT.

    The facts are facts.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 30, 2009 6:49 AM GMT
    Now days 'women of color', as it is put, are the predominate carriers of HIV.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 30, 2009 7:14 AM GMT
    Correctomundo Motorbrett. The simple fact is gay/bi men of all ages and races, some more than other, continue to get infected much more then heterosexuals. Politically correct or not, between having sex with a random man or a woman, you're more likely to get infected by the man.

    Growingbig: I've heard a lot of gay/bi guys say this. I'm starting to wonder if guys are using this as an excuse not to use condoms during random sexual encounters or be less cautious. If this is so, I'm sure we'll see another epidemic soon.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 30, 2009 7:33 AM GMT
    CitizenSol saidCorrectomundo Motorbrett. The simple fact is gay/bi men of all ages and races, some more than other, continue to get infected much more then heterosexuals. Politically correct or not, between having sex with a random man or a woman, you're more likely to get infected by the man.

    Growingbig: I've heard a lot of gay/bi guys say this. I'm starting to wonder if guys are using this as an excuse not to use condoms during random sexual encounters or be less cautious. If this is so, I'm sure we'll see another epidemic soon.
    Perhaps you haven't been reading the reports, that epidemic is now!
  • UFJocknerd

    Posts: 392

    Jan 30, 2009 1:49 PM GMT
    growingbig saidNow days 'women of color', as it is put, are the predominate carriers of HIV.


    This is true only when you look at worldwide stats, which include Africa. Africa has an infection rate WAY higher than anywhere else, and the reasons behind this are different from why people get infected in places like the US and Canada.

    Saying things like the above contributes to the idea that the HIV/AIDS crisis is over for us, and I think contributes to the increases in unsafe sex among gay men.

    As for the OP-- so what? So what if an IV drug user always uses new needles? Your practices don't change the fact that (a) anal sex is physiologically more likely to result in transmission, and (b) more msm have HIV/AIDS than others.
    +1 to motorbrett
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 30, 2009 5:46 PM GMT
    CitizenSol saidCorrectomundo Motorbrett. The simple fact is gay/bi men of all ages and races, some more than other, continue to get infected much more then heterosexuals. Politically correct or not, between having sex with a random man or a woman, you're more likely to get infected by the man.

    Growingbig: I've heard a lot of gay/bi guys say this. I'm starting to wonder if guys are using this as an excuse not to use condoms during random sexual encounters or be less cautious. If this is so, I'm sure we'll see another epidemic soon.


    It's statistically documented. I'm seeing it more in the clinics also.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 31, 2009 9:44 AM GMT
    [quote]
    +1 to motorbrett[/quote]

    are we in high school, ladies?

    my point was to isolate the determining factor which doesn't exclusively pertain to gay men. but whatever, you can disagree with what i'm saying
  • DanBasil

    Posts: 173

    Jan 31, 2009 1:51 PM GMT
    I figured, I would drop the Center for Disease Control's statement from their website here.

    "In the United States, HIV infection and AIDS have had a tremendous effect on men who have sex with men (MSM). MSM accounted for 71% of all HIV infections among male adults and adolescents in 2005 (based on data from 33 states with long-term, confidential name-based HIV reporting), even though only about 5% to 7% of male adults and adolescents in the United States identify themselves as MSM [1, 2].

    The number of HIV diagnoses for MSM decreased during the 1980s and 1990s, but recent surveillance data show an increase in HIV diagnoses for this group [3, 4]. Additionally, racial disparities exist with regard to HIV diagnoses within the MSM population. A recent study, conducted in 5 large US cities, found that HIV prevalence among black MSM (46%) was more than twice that among white MSM (21%) [5].

    The recent overall increase in HIV diagnoses for MSM, coupled with racial disparities, strongly points to a continued need for appropriate prevention and education services tailored for specific subgroups of MSM, especially those who are members of minority races/ethnicities."

    www.cdc.gov
    http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/resources/factsheets/msm.htm

    There are graphs and stuff there too, but I am not computer savvy enough to figure how to get them into a posting. -sorryicon_confused.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 03, 2009 5:43 PM GMT
    Gay men seem to be at higher risk than heteros. The theory is the lining of the rectum is more easily torn than the vagina, which gives the virus easier access. Sad but true.

    In Africa the reason why HIV has spread so easily is partially due to the reluctance of men to use condoms (although that is changing).

    It does not help that gay men seem to have put aside the hard earned lessons of the 1980s and are now reverting back to higher risk behaviour.

    Regardless of whether you are a woman or a man, if a guy is sticking his dick in you, make sure he is wearing a condom.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 03, 2009 9:09 PM GMT
    exileayahika saidicon_confused.gif it personally has always bothered me that officially gay men are listed as "high risk for HIV/AIDS"


    according to who?!

    i have sex with men and I wouldn't consider myself at high risk because I-

    1. always wear a condom
    2. only have sex with HIV- guys
    3. don't ever exchange body fluids to put it innocently haha

    i think it should be removed because honestly it only adds to the stigmatism that HIV is a 'gay disease' because it kinda SAYS IT IN PLAIN SIGHT

    it has much more to do with sexual behavior than orientation. if anal sex is the issue, than why doesn't it just say that? heterosexuals have anal sex as well.


    When the infection ratio among gay men lowers, they will be taken off the "high risk" list. Yea, I hate the stigmatism that it gives gay men, when I came out, my parents first fear was me contracting H.I.V. But you know, its a stereotype that is sadly based on truth and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

    If the world was more excepting of gay men, there would be less of a need to engage in "unsafe sexual" practices. Closeted Straight men would not need to hide their sexuality and be less inclined to have unsafe sex in bathhouses, with escorts, or bathrooms. But regardless, men will still think they are invincible and have unsafe sex..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 27, 2009 2:34 AM GMT
    As of 2006, the CDC reports that 67% of all HIV transmissions in the US were between homosexual men.

    I'm kinda new to the gay scene, but the first thing that I noticed is the availability of sex. My partner and I have yet to go to a bar and not be asked if we were open to threesomes. Also, the type of sex that homosexual men engage in (anal) is the riskiest sexual behavior.

    The facts are in, man. There's a reason I see the AIDS quilt at every Pride Parade.