Gay nudist couchsurfing hosts

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 6:40 AM GMT
    So I am using couchsurfing and I host travelers from out of town sometimes. Recently I hosted a young straight guy. When he arrived, his spirit was pretty crashed. Before he arrived at my place, he was staying at a gay nudist home. And this is what happened. He went to the nudist gay man's house and was told that he would need to drop his trousers if he wanted to stay there ( The guy did clearly post on his site that he practiced in home nudist but did not say that the guest had to be nude as well). As much as he was not comfortable, he did it as he was traveling on a budget and it was not possible to find another place at a short notice. And over the few days, I am sure you all know how that went. As much as I am sure the gay nudist didn't touch him or something. The cruising eyes on his naked body was not something he enjoyed. I honestly feel really sad for him. And that was his first couchsurfing experience.

    I then went through the site and see quite a few nudist gay hosts. Some explicitly indicate that guys have to be nude to stay at their places. Most say they were NON SEXUAL, INNOCENT nudists.

    So here are what I have trouble with,

    First, I am completely okay if someone wants to be nudist. If you feel more comfortable naked, hey, that's your business. You can ask other people to accept your life style and I can completely accept your life style. However, you should not ask other people to live your life style and be a nudist even if they stay at your home. ( Actually, specially if they are staying at your home. They are staying for free and they are at a disadvantage position, they might feel obligated to do it even though they don't like it. That is taking advantage of someone). We should not ask you to put your cloth on and you should not tell them to drop their trousers if they want to stay with you. I think it crosses the line between nudist and something else when you make other people to DO what you do instead of ask other people to ACCEPT what you do.

    Secondly, I am not really buying the non sexual, innocent thing. If it's so non sexual and innocent, why do most of them only host men. I guess man's body is more nudist worthy for them? Isn't there a statistic saying that on average men think about sex every 30 second or something? Are you really looking at those naked bodies 24/7 so innocently?

    Yes, many of them post on their profile being nude is a requirement to stay at their places so I guess you can argue that you should read the profile and decide for yourself. It doesn't make it right though just because you say it. Many couchsurfers are either very young and inexperienced or travel on a tight budget so they could be very vulnerable.

    Is this how we want people to perceive gay community?

    I guess I am going to be very unpopular to some people posting this but I need to get it out of chest.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jul 24, 2015 7:18 AM GMT
    I agree. A guest should not be expected to be nude or pressured to be nude even if the host is a nudist. An exception might be if the guest knows in advance that he is expected to be nude, but even then a gracious host would not make an issue of it.

  • Jul 24, 2015 7:35 AM GMT
    Sorry, but if the "straight " guy is an adult then i dont feel sorry for him. He made his choice to stay at a gay nudist place and should take responsibility for his choice. I'm sure there are other cheap places he could have stayed. A youth hostel perhaps? I am assuming that the "straight" guy knew that he was staying at a gay nudist place, correct? Why would a so called straight guy stay at a gay nudist place? Makes no sense. I am not a nudist therefore i would not stay somewhere where i was made to feel like i had to be nude. Better yet, i would not stay somewhere that was uncomfortable to me in any way. The victim mentality is getting tired. Now, i know i am going to get a hell of a lot of hate for this post.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 7:51 AM GMT
    GeekJockHybrid saidSorry, but if the "straight " guy is an adult then i dont feel sorry for him. He made his choice to stay at a gay nudist place and should take responsibility for his choice. I'm sure there are other cheap places he could have stayed. A youth hostel perhaps? I am assuming that the "straight" guy knew that he was staying at a gay nudist place, correct? Why would a so called straight guy stay at a gay nudist place? Makes no sense. I am not a nudist therefore i would not stay somewhere where i was made to feel like i had to be nude. Better yet, i would not stay somewhere that was uncomfortable to me in any way. The victim mentality is getting tired. Now, i know i am going to get a hell of a lot of hate for this post.


    I understand what you are saying though. I am not saying he should not take any responsibility. He is young and stupid, inexperienced as I said. He is adult, but he is 20 and the host was a lot older. You are also older than him so I am sure you have better judgement.

    In San Francisco, the now most expensive city in the U.S., a bed in hostel could cost $40 to $50 or even more a night. Many people didn't realize how expensive SF is until they arrive and then scramble to find cheaper place to stay. It is the cold hard reality. I get at least 5 requests to stay with me everyday from couchsurfing and I have to reject most of them. So as much as your theory of find another place to stay is correct, the reality is you might just end up living on the street which I have heard. It's sad.

    Just because the guy is young and stupid and made bad judgement, it still doesn't make what the host did right. Just like, it's not wise to walk at night at a dark street, but it still doesn't make it right for the robber to rob people on the street.

  • stratavos

    Posts: 1831

    Jul 24, 2015 9:18 AM GMT
    Their house, their rules. Unless it's with a significantly lower cost to be in the house, then I don't see why an alternative wasn't reached for.
  • rebelbeard

    Posts: 558

    Jul 24, 2015 11:18 AM GMT
    I agree with the OP here. It sounds like "nudist" is code for "Christian!" Ha!

    No but seriously, not many of us were that smart at 20 (whether we believe it or not). This young guy was taken advantage of. That's a sh1tty thing to do to someone who just needed a place to stay.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 11:25 AM GMT
    If he didn't stipulate in his ad that guests had to be nude then what he did was wrong and a bit creepy. On the other hand, I wouldn't stay somewhere where the host was nude because in my experience the folks who want to be nude are the exact folks you really don't want to see nude.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 12:22 PM GMT
    Hopefully that guy will just mark that experience as an encounter with a slightly creepy perv and he'll be able to joke about it with his friends down the road.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 1:07 PM GMT
    There's a term for that nudist: voyeur. I used to belong to a gay men's naturist (nudist) club, nationally recognized & certified, and we had monthly gatherings. Where we'd spend much of the day at our host's home in the nude. We'd swim, hot tub, sun out in the back yard, watch movies, have cocktails & dinner.

    We'd also go to other places where it was permissable to be nude during non-public hours, like participating gyms & bars. Although I must admit I always thought bowling looking particularly silly without clothes. We also went to legal nude beaches & campgrounds, plus "canuding" down a rural river or 2, which was a bit risky if seen.

    Sometimes I was an overnight guest, since I had to drive 250 miles to get there. I stayed 3 or 4 days, and did other local activities while in town. And never did my hosts expect or require me to remain naked in their home. And neither were they naked, for that matter. That was confined to our social events, with about 30-40 gay & bi men. Straight men were not allowed. Nor was sexual activity - it wasn't an orgy.

    So this guy's house rules for a straight, possibly (nominally) paying guest, or even free, seem a bit strange to me. And would not be condoned by our legitimate gay nudist organization.

    BTW, when I ran an online site for disabled gay men I included a link to an international couchsurfering network for LGBT. I don't know if that network still exists. Most jurisdictions don't allow cash to be exchanged, which makes participants a taxable and regulated business. But many guests did compensate in some manner, maybe via a gift, or doing housework.
  • Bunjamon

    Posts: 3161

    Jul 24, 2015 1:14 PM GMT
    If the host expected his guests to also be nude, it should have been in the conditions of the accommodation. If it wasn't, he is at fault, not for his behavior but for not making his expectations known. Sites like AirBnB allow guests who arrive to conditions they weren't expecting at their accommodation to leave a review and "warn" others of their bad experience. AirBnB also offers financial compensation but since couchsurfing is free that's probably not an option. Can couchsurfing.com users review where they stay?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 2:00 PM GMT
    if it were my house i would ask the guest to leave. would not want that bad karma in my house
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 2:26 PM GMT
    I think if it is conveyed ahead of time that nudity is expected, then the guest can (and should) make that conscious decision whether to stay at this nudist's place, or seek alternatives.

    If it was pressured to the guest on the spot, I think it is wrong and reflects badly on the gay or nudist communities.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 2:39 PM GMT
    It seems to me that this scenario -- that a host would place performative expectations upon a temporary resident -- marks a digression from the spirit of couchsurfing. I'd imagine that the CS administration is debating the intent of the hosts, given the aforementioned vulnerability of young, often foreign CS travelers.

    A related anecdote: I was living in the Bay Area ten+ years ago (in my early 20s), and was seeking housing. I went to a cold, concrete apartment complex, where I was presented with windowless living/cooking quarters. Noting one bed in the room, I inquire where I'm to sleep. The middle-aged man living in the apartment proposed that I simply share the bed with him. That's when I walked away. If I hadn't been significantly larger than him, I may have had concern for my safety.

    This scenario is relevant to the CS situation, given the disparity between internet personification and real-life intent. The condition of luring free-spirited minds under ill-spirited gaze is ethically criminal. That this principle is central to capitalism, makes it all the more threatening to the (non-capitalist) spirit of Couchsurfing.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 2:49 PM GMT
    Bunjamon saidIf the host expected his guests to also be nude, it should have been in the conditions of the accommodation. If it wasn't, he is at fault, not for his behavior but for not making his expectations known. Sites like AirBnB allow guests who arrive to conditions they weren't expecting at their accommodation to leave a review and "warn" others of their bad experience. AirBnB also offers financial compensation but since couchsurfing is free that's probably not an option. Can couchsurfing.com users review where they stay?


    Just as AirBnB, both Couchsurfing " host " and " surfer" have option to leave review about their "host"/""surfer" and their stay which will be labeled as either a " positive" or " negative" experience.

    Surprisingly, many of these nudist hosts have much more " positive " reviews than " negative" ones. The surfer I talked about also left that host a " positive" review saying he was open minded and friendly. This is what my take on this.

    At a site where review system is two-sided, people tend to leave positive review than negative review. One of the reasons is being afraid of retaliation. If you leave a negative review, most likely the other person will leave a negative review back and it just becomes your words against his. So I think many people who have bad experience would just simply let it go and not leaving any review. Occasionally I saw negative reviews warning about the intention of the nudist, but the result was vicious retaliation from the nudist host. Some will leave positive reviews but have vague warning words. Unless you read between lines, chance is they are buried in many other reviews.

    If the nudist host quickly leaves a positive review as soon as you leave, chance is you will leave a positive review as well. After all, you stay at his place free and you feel obligation to.

    You might even feel embarrassed and ashamed to admit that you did a dump thing, especially when you see there are so many positive reviews. The " group thinking " psychological effect makes you think that you should leave a positive review too otherwise you are not "open minded" enough. So, you bite the bullet and pretend to be actually okay with it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 2:52 PM GMT
    "We got kind of an ass-white couch situation here"~~the Harry character to Charlotte in Sex and the City

    Who the fuck would even want to sleep on the couch of a nudist? Ick.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 3:00 PM GMT
    theantijock said"We got kind of an ass-white couch situation here"~~the Harry character to Charlotte in Sex and the City

    Who the fuck would even want to sleep on the couch of a nudist? Ick.

    Bonafide nudists have a rule that you always sit on a towel. In fact, at the nude events I attended, everyone brought their own towel. Of course, are people always as fastidious in the solitary privacy of their own homes? Possibly not. Double ick icon_razz.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 3:42 PM GMT
    The renter sounds like a perve who likes to lure younger poorer guys into his lair. No different than the people who post ads for hot girls or bottoms on craigslist for reduced or free rent.

    I would also be worried about cameras in that house. No doubt old guy is jacking off to all of his home footage.
  • Antarktis

    Posts: 213

    Jul 24, 2015 3:55 PM GMT
    Sounds creepy
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 3:56 PM GMT
    Moral of the story: flesh out every single detail and put everything in writing so there's no confusion later on.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 4:25 PM GMT
    DOMINUS saidMoral of the story: flesh out every single detail and put everything in writing so there's no confusion later on.


    True the creepy guys always back down when they realize it won't be easy to pray on you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 6:20 PM GMT
    Never done couch surfing - and was unaware that it was "free." Went to the couchsurfing website, and they are hardly all explanatory as to how the system works. For the host, is there not always the fear that he might be robbed by the strangers in the house? (have to put away anything valuable?)

    I could see, that if one were a nudist, and kept a nudist household, how the host would require that guests be nude in the house as well. I would imagine that this condition is rather rare, and if the guest agreed to the terms in advance, = well so what. Even if the host got some enjoyment out of having nude young guess around to watch.

    I have heard of a nudist guy in the Berkeley area, that gave free rent to student atheletes (like several at a time, and for a full term) on the condition they they remain nude when in the public rooms of the house and backyard. Seems like a valid quid pro quo - Older gay guy got to be in the company of naked athletes, and they got free rent. No sex involved. Don't know if this is still going on.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 7:02 PM GMT
    HikerSkier saidNever done couch surfing - and was unaware that it was "free." Went to the couchsurfing website, and they are hardly all explanatory as to how the system works. For the host, is there not always the fear that he might be robbed by the strangers in the house?

    I could see, that if one were a nudist, and kept a nudist household, how the host would require that guests be nude in the house as well. I would imagine that this condition is rather rare, and if the guest agreed to the terms in advance, = well so what. Even if the host got some enjoyment out of having nude young guess around to watch.

    I have heard of a nudist guy in the Berkeley area, that gave free rent to student atheletes (like several at a time, and for a full term) on the condition they they remain nude when in the public rooms of the house and backyard. Seems like a valid quid pro quo - Older gay guy got to be in the company of naked athletes, and they got free rent. No sex involved. Don't know if this is still going on.



    I agree, if it's all agreed before the guest arrived and made clear that was the condition, no one should really complain. It still doesn't change the fact that it is creepy in my opinion and it almost became a free sex for free accommodation thing as you mentioned at the Berkeley situation. ( Well, I guess not real sex, just sexual pleasure for the host by staring I guess).

    However, this is often not the case with couchsurfing. Some gay nudists didn't even indicate that they were gay. You have to read their reviews to sometime know they were gay. So for all they know, they could be a straight nudist. With couchsurfing, things normally happen quite fast and specially with lots last minute requests, the communication might not be as clear as one would hope. And the situation might not be presented as real as one would hope. The issue is, if it was not communicated, or if it was not communicated well, should you pressure your young surfer to take off their pants for a free stay when they are stuck or should you be a real host and let them stay without being nude but advice them that they could use the time to find a more suitable accommodation. There are many ways to handle this appropriately but intensionally or unintentionally making the information unclear then pressure others to be nude isn't the right thing to do.
  • Bunjamon

    Posts: 3161

    Jul 24, 2015 9:10 PM GMT
    sunshine2015 said
    At a site where review system is two-sided, people tend to leave positive review than negative review. One of the reasons is being afraid of retaliation. If you leave a negative review, most likely the other person will leave a negative review back and it just becomes your words against his.


    That's not a very good system. I've used AirBnb several times, always with good experiences. The host and the guest cannot see each other's reviews until they are both submitted. After that, you can't change them. So retaliation isn't possible. AirBnB also encourages you to try to fix situations on your own or with their help before leaving a bad review, like telling the host you're uncomfortable with the arrangement and seeing what they say. If the situation is untenable, AirBnB will actually pay for you to stay elsewhere. Again, I understand Couchsurfing is free, but there should be a better way of allowing people to say how they feel. Like simply saying, "I didn't realize that guests were expected to be nude while staying here, and that made me uncomfortable; if I had known, I might have tried finding alternate accommodation."

    The host sounds kind of pervy. Regardless, the surfer should have left a review that will keep other people from finding themselves in the same situation he did.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 24, 2015 9:29 PM GMT
    lol

    I would never make that demand and I run around naked.

    My Haus is fun, exciting, spectacular & inviting! When one enters I am hospitable and cordial. If lucky, you might get a free show! lol
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jul 24, 2015 9:38 PM GMT
    stratavos saidTheir house, their rules. Unless it's with a significantly lower cost to be in the house, then I don't see why an alternative wasn't reached for.


    Sure they have rules, but what is the point of enforcing rules that would create no problems if broken? I can't imagine trying to force someone to undress even if he had previously agreed to do so then changed his mind, regardless of the rules. Even if we don't know all the details, the host behaved abominably by putting the guest in such an awkward situation, even if the guest may have been careless in checking out the situation before arriving.

    If the guest wanted to break a house rule that was reasonably necessary for safety or to protect property, then it would be reasonable for the host to insist that the guest obey the rule. However, that was not the case.