Outing someone

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 29, 2015 1:57 PM GMT
    I was watching some clips on YouTube with gossip bloggers justifying what the right circumstance would be to out someone. A few said never, it's not your place or anyone place for that matter. Other said if you're demonizing gays but gay yourself it's ok to out. The last view point were people who felt like being in the closet or living a lie was a disservice to yourself and is the reason why we don't have a strong community. They also alluded to closeted gays being the reason why gays get generalized due to the lack of an accurate sample. In short they didn't feel bad about exposing anyone's personal life.

    I'm interested to see what the RJ community thinks about this.
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    Jul 29, 2015 2:15 PM GMT
    there was a obvious push in the early 2000's for gays to be out. That was a long time ago.

    -gossip will never go away
    -do we really need to be counted
    -gay or straight most lives are a lie
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    Jul 30, 2015 3:54 AM GMT
    Moral of the story: If you're in the closet, expect to be outed eventually unless you do it yourself. icon_wink.gif
  • mystery905

    Posts: 745

    Jul 30, 2015 3:58 AM GMT
    It's nobody's right to force someone else to be outed.

    This is an extremely personal right.
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    Jul 30, 2015 4:34 AM GMT
    Nearly all of the 21 guys I've had sex with were married or had girlfriends. Several of them were GREAT in the sack & gave me some of the best action ever. Inevitably they'd get all guilty about cheating and run back into the closet. And ya know what? That's not my problem, they brought it on themselves. Outing them would've only made them mad enough to kill me in addition to wrecking their relationship with their woman. Who would win?
  • mar0302

    Posts: 273

    Jul 30, 2015 4:46 AM GMT
    I think everyone has to decide for themselves when they're ready to come out.. it's not possible to know the ramifications of outing someone.. If they're young, especially, it could put them in danger depending upon their living situation..

    However, I do agree with outing someone that's homophobic... and remember the reality is that organisations like Act Up and others outed a lot of people during the AIDS crisis, and AIDS itself outed people.. and all those outed gay people helped to bring about better and more equal rights..
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    Jul 30, 2015 5:12 AM GMT
    wRUSStle saidNearly all of the 21 guys I've had sex with were married or had girlfriends. Several of them were GREAT in the sack & gave me some of the best action ever. Inevitably they'd get all guilty about cheating and run back into the closet. And ya know what? That's not my problem, they brought it on themselves. Outing them would've only made them mad enough to kill me in addition to wrecking their relationship with their woman. Who would win?


    At 21 you've been with 21 married/straight/closeted men?

    I'm worried for you. This can't be healthy, if only from a self-respect standpoint. Consider these possibilities:

    1. He's cheating, but you know it and you're OK with it. Not cool if it's true (yes, you're a homewrecker).
    2. He's with women, and you're finding him how? Surely his Grindr profile says I'm Married and Straight but Looking for a Man. Do you believe that shit? EVERYONE says they're straight or bi-curious, because Ew, Gay!
    3. On the odd chance he's a lying sack of shit (we can establish he's lying to someone, right?), why would you subject yourself to what could possibly be a sociopathic bug bomb? Condoms can't protect you from all of his goo.
    4. You're lying.

    Sorry for making this about you, but sometimes red flags are actually four-alarm fires.
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    Jul 30, 2015 5:34 AM GMT
    wRUSStle saidNearly all of the 21 guys I've had sex with were married or had girlfriends. Several of them were GREAT in the sack & gave me some of the best action ever. Inevitably they'd get all guilty about cheating and run back into the closet. And ya know what? That's not my problem, they brought it on themselves. Outing them would've only made them mad enough to kill me in addition to wrecking their relationship with their woman. Who would win?
    You would, if you do it correctly.

    I have two fwb's back in FL who are bi, have gf's, and used to be closeted. I outed them to my larger circle of friends. The news eventually got around to their gf's. Breakups ensued after that.

    Now they both have gf's who are comfortable with them being bi, and they're both still fwb's, and we talk regularly (I've been working out of town for a few months - can't wait to get back to them).

    The scary part is their gf's are also bi, and they want me to grope their boobies when I get back. And I'm like OMG NOOOOOO !!!!1!!!1!!!!!!!!11!!!!!! icon_eek.gif
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    Jul 30, 2015 6:10 AM GMT
    I feel that there are circumstances in which it would be appropriate to out someone. If they're lying to their partner and cheating on them, then I say it's fair game to tell the partner what you witnessed.

    Happened with a friend of mine. Of course I told her that her now ex-fiance was cheating on her for a guy, why wouldn't I? It's fine to be closeted, I have nothing wrong with that. But don't toy with other people's hearts if you aren't going to commit.
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    Jul 30, 2015 6:11 AM GMT
    AutumnalStride saidI feel that there are circumstances in which it would be appropriate to out someone. If they're lying to their partner and cheating on them, then I say it's fair game to tell the partner what you witnessed.

    Happened with a friend of mine. Of course I told her that her now ex-fiance was cheating on her for a guy, why wouldn't I? It's fine to be closeted, I have nothing wrong with that. But don't toy with other people's hearts if you aren't going to commit.


    YES
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    Jul 30, 2015 6:53 AM GMT
    The only time I'd think it acceptable is to stop a homophobe from actively hurting community.
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    Jul 30, 2015 7:04 AM GMT
    In this day and age of social media and cell phone cameras it is going to become increasingly harder to stay hidden in the closet.

    A married friend of mine was outed to his wife and son via Facebook by a trick he fucked one night. He lucked out. His son readily accepted him and his wife didn't care as she's probably getting her own side action.
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    Jul 30, 2015 10:33 AM GMT
    I have a standing rule not to engage closet cases in any sort of relationship other than very casual friends. It's too much baggage to deal with their low self acceptance, duality, deceit, and lack of integrity around who they are. Those are toxic people that are dysfunctional, and, I don't need, want, them in my life as they make things too complicated. KISS. I don't act an enabler to dysfunction. I empower civil rights, but, I don't bring anyone into my private circle that's a closet case (unless I don't know they are a closet, which happened recently). They are toxic to themselves, and everyone who gets close to them. They have to help themselves to be mental wellness around who they are.

    I accept their being closet cases, but, I don't bring them into my life, because it's simple to bothersome to manage their secrets.

    A while back, a kid wanted to train with me...begged...but he told me he didn't want me to act gay. I told him would give it a pass. He begged some more. I still said no. I'm by no means a flamer. You've seen that if you follow me online, but, I won't engage someone that I regard as not having integrity in their lives.
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    Jul 30, 2015 10:36 AM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidIn this day and age of social media and cell phone cameras it is going to become increasingly harder to stay hidden in the closet.

    A married friend of mine was outed to his wife and son via Facebook by a trick he fucked one night. He lucked out. His son readily accepted him and his wife didn't care as she's probably getting her own side action.


    I have a bud, that I got close to last November. He told me was straight, and I took it at face value. He pushed his girlfriend away (since reunited); pushed me away (called me a diva faggot and threatened to beat me to a pulp and knock all my teeth out) / lashed out at me for no apparent reason. It is turns out, he spends all day on Grindr, and it's a really poorly kept secret that he's a closet case. I have no idea if he's told his girlfriend that he's big time into guys, but, he is. I'm not going to tell his girlfriend, but,...before it's done...someone is going to get hurt from all the dysfunction. He pushed me away because of his attraction to me, and all his conflicts around it, and....his path of lies along the way. I feel compassion for him, but, I won't act as an enabler to him hurting people...himself...or anyone else. I told him my door was open, but...only if our friendship was remodeled around integrity.

    It took me about six months to get all the pieces of the puzzle figured out. First person in 20 years to ever threaten me. He's battled depression (as just about every closet case I know does), and anger management issues. I feel compassion, like I said, but, find the lack of integrity, and the mixed messages to me...toxic.
  • NursePractiti...

    Posts: 232

    Jul 30, 2015 3:34 PM GMT
    I'm not for outing anyone unless your a person in power such as the many recent religious and political figures who continue to fight against equal rights, employment rights, etc. Then I'm for outing them. It shows them for the liars they are and gives them small taste of what they give so many thousands of others.
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    Jul 30, 2015 4:13 PM GMT
    HolyHex001 said The last view point were people who felt like being in the closet or living a lie was a disservice to yourself and is the reason why we don't have a strong community. They also alluded to closeted gays being the reason why gays get generalized due to the lack of an accurate sample. In short they didn't feel bad about exposing anyone's personal life.

    I'm interested to see what the RJ community thinks about this.


    I feel like that mentality is why the gay community is not a strong community. The feminine openly gay ones hate on the closeted ones. The masculine gay men hate on the feminine ones. Everyone has something to bitch about. Let people decide for themselves when they want to tell other people. Its none of your business anyway.

    However I would out someone who hated on all gay people if I found out that they were gay but that is my only exception. If you entered into a relationship or a fling with a closeted gay who has a wife, then you got yourself into that situation. Use your brain
  • AttisXVI

    Posts: 293

    Jul 30, 2015 5:06 PM GMT
    mystery905 saidIt's nobody's right to force someone else to be outed.

    This is an extremely personal right.


    It isn't really a right. If it were a right there would be a law protecting it.

    My feeling is that being in the closet is a privilege. That privilege can be revoked.

    Example: Senator voted down every bill that favored gay marriage or the recognition of gay rights. Caught in bed with another man. Boom! Privilege forfeit. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

    If I start spreading rumors that people with blonde hair are wrong, and I am secretly a blonde under a stellar dye job, the biggest "fuck you" from other blonde people will be to prove that I am also a blonde.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 30, 2015 5:43 PM GMT
    I don't really care to out people, but I don't think being in the closet is a privilege; that's like saying being obese, depressed, invisible, insecure, etc are privileges. Closeted people live like they're cursed.
  • iron_man

    Posts: 6

    Jul 30, 2015 6:06 PM GMT
    I don't think it's right to out someone unless it's very specific circumstances (of which it's hard to say)

    Coming out is a lot more than just saying "I'm gay" I believe. It's kind of this whole inner journey that the person takes so as to accept themself for who society has taught them to hate. At least, that's how my experience of it was.

    If you simply out someone, sure you free them of the stress of having to live a lie all the time, but you also deprive them of the mental process and the chance to really come to terms with everything.

    So I'm not really for it, but again these are just my thoughts.
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    Jul 30, 2015 6:41 PM GMT
    My MtF aunt was kinda living low on the radar about being transgender from the family for years. The uncle I once knew, we used to be able to talk often over on Facebook and over the phone, but over time there was a lot of sudden drifting. Later I found out this was the case for almost everyone who knew my uncle.

    Then about a year ago, I started to notice a pattern. When my mom basically charged at me, wanting to know my orientation because I took an LGBT position on student politics, she asked me how I felt about transgenders, and if there was a way of explaining those who were trans in a more simple way to her. She then told me she really wanted to understand more because she knew a transwoman she wished she could be closer to.

    It was only when I went to Calgary, and another uncle in my family asked me the same question exactly the same way. Most of my family lived in Winnipeg, but only a handful number lived in Alberta. It didn't take me long to figure out they were talking family in Alberta, and by that point there could only have been one other possible member to have been a transwoman.

    Still, my recent aunt would rather that she tell me herself first, so like the rest of the parent generation in my family, I waited for her to reconnect to me herself. But then, my grandfather got sicker and sicker, and it was time for the entire family to gather...

    Needless to say, once my Aunt hesitated at the thought of flying to Winnipeg due to not being out yet, my other uncle in Alberta straight up publicly outed her to the entire family. Something weird happens because of this...

    So, obviously, there was a group huddle about pain and betrayal over her brother openly shaming her by outting her to the family. But quickly enough, she was in Winnipeg, and she spent a lot of time here as a result. She stayed in my house, and instantly I could reconnect with her to the same degree of closeness when she was my uncle. Back then I was slowly outting myself to the rest of family, so she and I had several discussions after learning my orientation. I can still call her fairly easily after the fact too, so that's always nice.

    She was also able to get a lot of needed closure with her dad, something all of us, and even herself included, weren't sure she'd have gotten because she initially wasn't sure if she could handle telling her dad over the phone that she was trans. So in being outted, she was swiftly brought back into the family with loving open arms. At a huge cost of trust, though, obviously. She said back then that she and her brother were on speaking terms, but she still speaks kinda... harsh, for me to completely think so.


    TL;DR...

    On one hand most of me blindly accepts that making the choice to out someone is a cruel choice one should never make it upon themselves to make. Especially because, a lot of the time, the person being outted knows that the people being told will almost certainly be harmful towards them after knowing what they do. And it should therefore be their judgment that they can go on, changing their minds as they investigate that idea deeper. By outting them before they can do this, other friendships can be forever destroyed, along with their trust in you...

    But then you have the story of my Aunt, her father, and her distance to the rest of the family, fairly improving everywhere at the total expense of her faith in her brother. She was able to make amends with us at that cost.

    So as much as I'd like to paint this a Black/White portrait, even I have to admit that context has a lot to do with everything...
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    Jul 30, 2015 9:45 PM GMT
    demiguy12 saidMy MtF aunt was kinda living low on the radar about being transgender from the family for years. The uncle I once knew, we used to be able to talk often over on Facebook and over the phone, but over time there was a lot of sudden drifting. Later I found out this was the case for almost everyone who knew my uncle.

    Then about a year ago, I started to notice a pattern. When my mom basically charged at me, wanting to know my orientation because I took an LGBT position on student politics, she asked me how I felt about transgenders, and if there was a way of explaining those who were trans in a more simple way to her. She then told me she really wanted to understand more because she knew a transwoman she wished she could be closer to.

    It was only when I went to Calgary, and another uncle in my family asked me the same question exactly the same way. Most of my family lived in Winnipeg, but only a handful number lived in Alberta. It didn't take me long to figure out they were talking family in Alberta, and by that point there could only have been one other possible member to have been a transwoman.

    Still, my recent aunt would rather that she tell me herself first, so like the rest of the parent generation in my family, I waited for her to reconnect to me herself. But then, my grandfather got sicker and sicker, and it was time for the entire family to gather...

    Needless to say, once my Aunt hesitated at the thought of flying to Winnipeg due to not being out yet, my other uncle in Alberta straight up publicly outed her to the entire family. Something weird happens because of this...

    So, obviously, there was a group huddle about pain and betrayal over her brother openly shaming her by outting her to the family. But quickly enough, she was in Winnipeg, and she spent a lot of time here as a result. She stayed in my house, and instantly I could reconnect with her to the same degree of closeness when she was my uncle. Back then I was slowly outting myself to the rest of family, so she and I had several discussions after learning my orientation. I can still call her fairly easily after the fact too, so that's always nice.

    She was also able to get a lot of needed closure with her dad, something all of us, and even herself included, weren't sure she'd have gotten because she initially wasn't sure if she could handle telling her dad over the phone that she was trans. So in being outted, she was swiftly brought back into the family with loving open arms. At a huge cost of trust, though, obviously. She said back then that she and her brother were on speaking terms, but she still speaks kinda... harsh, for me to completely think so.


    TL;DR...

    On one hand most of me blindly accepts that making the choice to out someone is a cruel choice one should never make it upon themselves to make. Especially because, a lot of the time, the person being outted knows that the people being told will almost certainly be harmful towards them after knowing what they do. And it should therefore be their judgment that they can go on, changing their minds as they investigate that idea deeper. By outting them before they can do this, other friendships can be forever destroyed, along with their trust in you...

    But then you have the story of my Aunt, her father, and her distance to the rest of the family, fairly improving everywhere at the total expense of her faith in her brother. She was able to make amends with us at that cost.

    So as much as I'd like to paint this a Black/White portrait, even I have to admit that context has a lot to do with everything...


    This was a very personal and insightful story. Good points man. Thanks for sharing that!
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    Jul 31, 2015 1:42 AM GMT
    I say never. I feel like if you out someone and they end up jumping off a bridge or something, their blood is partly on your hands. Obviously, someone that would commit suicide over it wasn't wrapped too tight to begin with, but you still don't wanna be the trigger that pushes someone over the edge. You never know how close to the edge people are.

    Totally agree with those that say outing is demonizing.