Cecil the lion was a victim of deep-rooted and persistent arrogance towards wildlife

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    Jul 30, 2015 5:58 AM GMT
    http://theconversation.com/cecil-the-lion-was-a-victim-of-deep-rooted-and-persistent-arrogance-towards-wildlife-45416
    ...As unsustainable global consumption and population growth continue to roll back the space for wild animals around the world, many species are on the edge of extinction. This crisis has deep roots in Western societies, although the effects are often felt most acutely in developing nations.

    The fact that in 2015 people are still travelling thousands of miles to kill exotic animals and bring back trophies shows deeply rooted cultural problems in Western societies, where such behaviour should be unthinkable.
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    Jul 30, 2015 12:43 PM GMT
    It's just a little shocking that the world is outraged when a lion is killed by a hack dentist, but daily people in America are shot and killed by nut jobs with guns and it's just ho hum.
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    Jul 30, 2015 3:03 PM GMT
    smartmoney saidIt's just a little shocking that the world is outraged when a lion is killed by a hack dentist, but daily people in America are shot and killed by nut jobs with guns and it's just ho hum.


    Right? It's somewhat disturbing how little people care about other humans dying but the death of an animal can set the whole internet ablaze with compassion. Animals are cool and have their place but at the end of the day I'm on team people. If I had to choose between a lion dying and a baby dying, it'd be the lion every time.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jul 30, 2015 3:09 PM GMT
    ^^

    yeah right, 7.4 BILLION people (most of whom are totally worthless) and how many lions?

    shoot the dentist for a pet food factory

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    Jul 30, 2015 4:25 PM GMT
    smartmoney saidIt's just a little shocking that the world is outraged when a lion is killed by a hack dentist, but daily people in America are shot and killed by nut jobs with guns and it's just ho hum.


    Well, it's not ho hum. As an adult I'm capable of being outraged by more than one thing at a time.

    Stop diminishing what could actually be a watershed moment in our culture.

    And, last I checked, the pro shoot-an-endangered-animal lobby in America didn't have the same choke hold on our politics as the NRA does.
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    Jul 30, 2015 4:26 PM GMT
    Animus said
    smartmoney saidIt's just a little shocking that the world is outraged when a lion is killed by a hack dentist, but daily people in America are shot and killed by nut jobs with guns and it's just ho hum.


    Right? It's somewhat disturbing how little people care about other humans dying but the death of an animal can set the whole internet ablaze with compassion. Animals are cool and have their place but at the end of the day I'm on team people. If I had to choose between a lion dying and a baby dying, it'd be the lion every time.


    You're not being asked to choose. Be enraged by both. God, are we being charged by the letter on Facebook?
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    Jul 30, 2015 5:09 PM GMT
    I still don't fully understand this story. As I understand it, the hunter had a licence from the authorities to hunt in Zimbabwe. Why is he being threatened with prosecution? Is it because he killed a famous lion? Had he killed an anonymous lion, would he still be being threatened with prosecution?

    Don't get me wrong, I have no time for someone who pays $50,000 to go out to Africa and hunt a lion with a bow and arrow (or with anything else for that matter), but I'm not convinced most of the blame doesn't lie with the Zimbabwean government in this case.
  • metta

    Posts: 39168

    Jul 30, 2015 5:12 PM GMT
    As the world mourned Cecil the lion, five of Kenya’s endangered elephants were slain


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/29/as-the-world-mourned-cecil-the-lion-five-of-kenyas-endangered-elephants-were-slain/?tid=sm_fb
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    Jul 30, 2015 5:59 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidI still don't fully understand this story. As I understand it, the hunter had a licence from the authorities to hunt in Zimbabwe. Why is he being threatened with prosecution? Is it because he killed a famous lion? Had he killed an anonymous lion, would he still be being threatened with prosecution?

    Don't get me wrong, I have no time for someone who pays $50,000 to go out to Africa and hunt a lion with a bow and arrow (or with anything else for that matter), but I'm not convinced most of the blame doesn't lie with the Zimbabwean government in this case.


    The dentist can't even claim culling on this one. He's a known poacher.

    http://news.yahoo.com/dentist-killed-cecil-lion-poached-us-155353279.html
    Dentist who killed Cecil the lion poached in US

    Chicago (AFP) - The wealthy American dentist who killed Zimbabwe's beloved lion Cecil is a trophy-seeking bow hunter with a poaching conviction in the United States.

    Palmer illegally shot a black bear outside a designated hunting zone in the US state of Wisconsin in 2006, court records showed.

    He pleaded guilty to lying to federal authorities about the location of the kill in 2008, paid a nearly $3,000 fine and was required to forfeit the bear's remains


    And here again he is involved with luring a lion off its protected reserve in order to shoot it dead.

    So he can't even argue any sort of morality of culling the numbers of a protected species for its own health.

    This was purely disgusting.
  • carew28

    Posts: 662

    Jul 30, 2015 6:12 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidI still don't fully understand this story. As I understand it, the hunter had a licence from the authorities to hunt in Zimbabwe. Why is he being threatened with prosecution? Is it because he killed a famous lion? Had he killed an anonymous lion, would he still be being threatened with prosecution?

    Don't get me wrong, I have no time for someone who pays $50,000 to go out to Africa and hunt a lion with a bow and arrow (or with anything else for that matter), but I'm not convinced most of the blame doesn't lie with the Zimbabwean government in this case.


    According to information on other websites, the lion evidently was "baited", which apparently is an illegal hunting practice. The lion lived in a national park, had a distinctive black mane which made it stand out, was part of a research-study, and was well-known to national-park personnel. The dentist's guides apparently tied a dead animal to the back of their vehicle, and thus were able to lure the lion outside of the park's boundaries, where it was shot. The dentist has apparently denied having any knowledge of what his guides did, or at any rate, has stated that he didn't know that the practice was illegal.

    I imagine the fact that the lion was well-known in the area did contribute to the furor that's going on, probably more so than would have happened in the case of an anonymous lion.

    I know that in my locality, black-bear hunting is legal during the bear -hunting season. But the practice of "baiting" (luring the bear in with food) isn't permitted, and a few years ago a hunter was prosecuted for doing this.
  • metta

    Posts: 39168

    Jul 30, 2015 6:30 PM GMT
    Here are six more rich white people who get off on killing African wildlife


    http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/here-are-six-more-rich-white-people-who-get-off-on-killing-african-wildlife/
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    Jul 30, 2015 6:44 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    smartmoney saidIt's just a little shocking that the world is outraged when a lion is killed by a hack dentist, but daily people in America are shot and killed by nut jobs with guns and it's just ho hum.


    Well, it's not ho hum. As an adult I'm capable of being outraged by more than one thing at a time.

    Stop diminishing what could actually be a watershed moment in our culture.

    And, last I checked, the pro shoot-an-endangered-animal lobby in America didn't have the same choke hold on our politics as the NRA does.


    Correct.

    I'd add that this isn't about merely measuring our response of poaching wildlife vs the killing of a human, rather it pits humanity against itself and that is why it comes off as so particularly horrible. Not just because it is furry cute.

    What other creature on this planet has the capacity to assure the survival of another species? Name one besides us? You can't. Because we are it. We rarely express that but maybe internally we know it such that when an individual is killed, a human, yeah, that's terrible, but that's relatively isolated to that person, their family, maybe their community, somewhat humanity at large. But the most important thing there is the individual. That's the overridingly horrible thing and we can put our finger on that pretty easily.

    Not so with this. Destroying one of another species, particularly an endangered one, isn't about an individual. The senseless, stupid or cruel destruction of an individual of that species strikes us as an entire genocide because we have failed not just them but also we have failed ourselves. We fail what defines us, what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. So that death becomes bigger than just the one. A human death speaks more to the individual, the animal death speaks more for the group.

    For it is not our ability to use tools; they use them too.
    It is not our ability to make tools; they also fashion tools.
    It is not our intelligence; they also have smarts.
    It is not our abstract thinking; the higher of them are also capable of even that.
    It is not our laughing, it is not our crying; all those qualities are shared.

    It is our capacity to apply our compassion to conserve the life of other entire species. That is our defining moment. When we fail that, we feel it deeply.

    So it is particularly abominable because in felling the lion, we not only fail their species but also our own. We fail the very definition of who we are as a people. And in this case, he didn't just kill a lion. He didn't even just kill part of us which we also lose when a person dies. He illegally lured a lion off a preserve protecting their number.

    He killed hope. Cecil was hope.
  • metta

    Posts: 39168

    Jul 30, 2015 8:21 PM GMT
    Trump defends his big-game hunting sons as they are shamed on Twitter for posing with their trophy kills - including a leopard and an elephant - after death of Cecil the lion

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3180201/Trump-defends-big-game-hunting-sons-shamed-Twitter-posing-trophy-kills-including-leopard-elephant-death-Cecil-lion.html
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    Jul 30, 2015 9:25 PM GMT
    JuanPablomv89 said
    In what world do you live? Do you even know that lions are one of the top 10 endangered species in Africa so only sick and stupid people like hunting and killing endangered species for fun at leats animals are loyal and honest not like fucking humans who only destroy and kill everything then are whining and crying with the Mother Earth


    I appreciate English is not your first language, so, just for you, here it is again in Spanish:

    No me malinterpreten, no tengo tiempo para alguien que paga $ 50.000 a ir a África y cazar un león con un arco y una flecha (o con cualquier otra cosa para el caso) , pero no estoy convencido de la mayor parte de la culpa no recae en el gobierno de Zimbabwe en este caso.

  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1037

    Jul 31, 2015 2:32 AM GMT
    I don't get why people are saying this is a uniquely Western problem.

    Rhinoceroses are nearly extinct because Asians think rhino horns will make their dicks hard.

    Many other wild animals around the world - tigers, gorillas, even American bears - are being slaughtered for use in Asian folk medicine. And the "medicine" is a complete fraud.
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    Jul 31, 2015 3:03 AM GMT
    smartmoney saidIt's just a little shocking that the world is outraged when a lion is killed by a hack dentist, but daily people in America are shot and killed by nut jobs with guns and it's just ho hum.


    Yes my thought exactly. No one cares how many people got shot in Chicago last week.

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    Jul 31, 2015 4:28 AM GMT
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/30/us-zimbabwe-wildlife-lion-agency-idUSKCN0Q424G20150730
    Palmer, whose practice is in suburban Minneapolis, has admitted to killing the 13-year-old lion and tourist attraction, in July. Questions have been raised by the Zimbabwe government and animal conservationists about Cecil's death outside the Hwange National Park, where he was the head of two lion prides.

    The best known lion in Zimbabwe is said to have been lured from the park with bait, shot with an arrow, tracked for 40 hours, shot dead with a rifle and then beheaded and skinned.

    Cecil was wearing a GPS collar as part of a research project run by Oxford University.

    DSC_0675.jpg
  • metta

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    Jul 31, 2015 5:40 AM GMT
    United Nations And US Government Investigating, Taking Action After Cecil The Lion Killed

    http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/united_nations_and_us_government_take_action_after_cecil_the_lion_killed
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    Jul 31, 2015 6:04 AM GMT
    metta8 saidUnited Nations And US Government Investigating, Taking Action After Cecil The Lion Killed

    http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/united_nations_and_us_government_take_action_after_cecil_the_lion_killed


    Will there be an investigation into recent flash floods, which wreaked havoc in some parts of Gujarat, India leading to the death of 10 lions? I'm sorry just idle curiosity. If lions are precious how can they killed by floods?

    I suspect no one even knew about this. The media has whipped the sheep into a frenzy and now is taking money to the bank.




  • metta

    Posts: 39168

    Jul 31, 2015 2:17 PM GMT
    Zimbabwe: We Want Cecil The Lion's Killer Extradited To 'Be Held Accountable For His Illegal Action'

    http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/zimbabwe_we_want_cecil_the_lion_s_killer_extradited_to_us
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    Jul 31, 2015 2:56 PM GMT
    There's an interesting article in the Guardian that goes into some of the reasons for the decline in lion populations in Africa. Overhunting -- as in the case of Cecil is only part of the problem.


    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/29/trophy-hunting-just-part-story-behind-declining-lion-numbers-africa

    Trophy hunting just part of the story behind declining lion numbers in Africa

    Lion numbers are in steep decline across Africa, but trophy hunting is only partly responsible for the long-term losses, say conservationists.

    According to UK-based charity Lion Aid, trophy hunters in Zimbabwe killed around 800 lions in the 10 years to 2009, out of a population in the country of up to 1,680.

    This compares with a total of 990 lions killed for sport in Botswana, Zambia, Namibia and Mozambique combined over the same period.

    South Africa, where hunters legally kill around 260 a year, is the world centre of lion hunting but nearly all those killed for sport are bred in captivity, in a practice known as canned hunting. In central and west Africa there is less hunting because lion populations are nearly all in steep decline or extinct.

    “Lions are grossly over-hunted in Zimbabwe concessions, lured out of national parks and there is corruption. Quotas are exceeded. It is highly unsustainable,” said a spokesman for Lion Aid, following the illegal killing of a 12-year-old lion known as Cecil who was lured out of Hwange national park by an American hunter.

    But many conservationists say that without trophy hunting there would be no lions at all.

    “The land would be used for farming and this would accelerate the loss of wildlife. We don’t like trophy hunting but it slows the rapid decline of populations. It is a necessary evil,” said Guy Balme, director of the leopard programme in Africa for US-based conservation group Panthera.

    See full article at link above.
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    Jul 31, 2015 4:20 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn saidThere's an interesting article in the Guardian that goes into some of the reasons for the decline in lion populations in Africa. Overhunting -- as in the case of Cecil is only part of the problem.

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/29/trophy-hunting-just-part-story-behind-declining-lion-numbers-africa

    “The land would be used for farming and this would accelerate the loss of wildlife. We don’t like trophy hunting but it slows the rapid decline of populations. It is a necessary evil,” said Guy Balme, director of the leopard programme in Africa for US-based conservation group Panthera.


    Though none of that excuses the behavior of this vile dentist, there might be a lot more that we in the west are not aware of. I'd also come across another article discussing topics that makes it clear to me that I have zero background on what might be a backstory to some of the outrage:

    http://www.herald.co.zw/the-name-cecil-smells-even-on-a-lion/
    ...Other Western media outlets like the BBC now believe it's time to punish African countries for their "failure" to protect wildlife, the punishment of which is administered with bans on trading in wildlife species and the issuance of hunting licenses and permits.

    So: "Conservationists and politicians have called on the E.U. to ban the import of lion heads, paws and skins as hunters' trophies from African countries that cannot prove their lion populations are sustainable, following the killing of Zimbabwe's most famous lion by a European hunter with a bow and arrow."...

    ...Western media is trying to portray Zimbabwe as an outpost of lawlessness simply because a random criminal, which we now hear is of American stock - has killed an animal in our country....

    ...The hullabaloo over Cecil the lion stinks up the whole episode, especially when it is used as an excuse, as a pretext, for preventing Zinbabwe from exploiting its God-given resources...

    ...One man kicking up the most dust over the issue of a lion being poached is Johnny Rodriguez, who runs the previously-mentioned Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force.

    The shadowy organization and its shadowy leader are not only about animal activism. They have an all-too-political agenda: They oppose Zimbabwe being peopled with Whites who used be big in the safari and conservation business. They operated in the shadows, were accountable to no one and would run private ventures from which they crew huge profits shopped off to foreign banks. They operated global networks of wealthy Whites and Asians who would fly into the country with private jets, kill game for trophies and spirit themselves out of the country.

    Their lairs were highly secure and operated on an apartheid basis....

    Most of these people are now gone or preparing to lose their farms and conservancies to Black under land reform, including one called the Wildlife Based Land Reform Programme which may allow Blacks to lease such farms for up to 25 years on a renewable basis.

    Whites, particularly of Rhodesian stock, are the leading victims. These or their friends are the same people who have been crying blue murder across the White western media seeking to have wildlife sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe. That is the reason they blather and whine about animals, giving them human-like features to evoke sufficient pity and anger.



  • Suetonius

    Posts: 1842

    Jul 31, 2015 10:07 PM GMT
    Animus said
    smartmoney saidIt's just a little shocking that the world is outraged when a lion is killed by a hack dentist, but daily people in America are shot and killed by nut jobs with guns and it's just ho hum.


    Right? It's somewhat disturbing how little people care about other humans dying but the death of an animal can set the whole internet ablaze with compassion. Animals are cool and have their place but at the end of the day I'm on team people. If I had to choose between a lion dying and a baby dying, it'd be the lion every time.


    I might choose the lion - there are way too many babies in the world - doomed to live in poverty their entire (maybe short) lives. And what is the western non-profit do-gooder set doing? Trying to eliminate childhood diseases so they all can live longer and die of hunger at a later date - or by their overwhelming numbers, destroy what little is left of the natural enviornment - or become soldiers at age 8, so they can kill and mutilate the neighboring children for the benefit of warlords. Most of the world needs birth control. What they get instead is death control.
  • metta

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    Aug 01, 2015 5:27 PM GMT
    Cecil The Lion’s Brother Is Protecting His Cubs From Rival Males
    It’s like The Lion King, except the uncle is the good guy.


    http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/the-lion-king-but-scar-is-a-good-guy
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    Aug 01, 2015 6:36 PM GMT
    metta8 saidCecil The Lion’s Brother Is Protecting His Cubs From Rival Males
    It’s like The Lion King, except the uncle is the good guy.


    http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/the-lion-king-but-scar-is-a-good-guy



    Anyone notice, astrologically, we are currently in the zodiac sign of Leo? The Sun rules the sign of Leo, the sign of Leo rules the heart (Regulus Star) icon_wink.gif


    BREAKING NEWS: Cecil the lion's brother Jericho shot dead by poachers in Zimbabwean park
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3182428/Cecil-s-brother-Jericho-shot-dead-poachers-Zimbabwean-park.html




    subra.JPG

    Leo /ˈliːoʊ/ is one of the constellations of the zodiac, lying between Cancer to the west and Virgo to the east. Its name is Latin for lion, and to the ancient Greeks represented the Nemean Lion killed by the mythical Greek hero Heracles (known to the ancient Romans as Hercules) as one of his twelve labors. Its symbol is Leo.svg ( ♌). One of the 48 constellations described by the 2nd century astronomer Ptolemy, Leo remains one of the 88 modern constellations today, and one of the most easily recognizable due to its many bright stars and a distinctive shape that is reminiscent of the crouching lion it depicts. The lion's mane and shoulders also form an asterism known as "the Sickle," which to modern observers may resemble a backwards "question mark."

    In Babylonian astronomy, the constellation was called UR.GU.LA, the "Great Lion"; the bright star Regulus was known as "the star that stands at the Lion's breast." Regulus also had distinctly regal associations, as it was known as the King Star