4 charts that show Barack Obama is right to be terrified of climate change, as US government unveils Clean Power Plan

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 04, 2015 9:34 PM GMT
    Barack Obama has launched a huge plan to wean America off coal, warning that "no challenge poses a greater threat to our future, the future generations, than the changing climate". And the data show that threat might have already arrived.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/4-charts-that-show-barack-obama-is-right-to-be-terrified-of-climate-change-as-us-government-unveils-clean-power-plan-10436934.html
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Aug 05, 2015 1:10 AM GMT
    and you want to know what can be done about it? nothing

    so move to higher ground
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    Aug 05, 2015 5:01 AM GMT
    Putting the coal industry out of business will have no effect.

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    Aug 05, 2015 7:23 AM GMT
    tj85016 saidand you want to know what can be done about it? nothing

    so move to higher ground



    Exactly, shore lines have moved all over the place since day one. Cleopatra's palace is now under water and Bodin castle in southern England used to be attacked by Vikings in row boats ( it's inland now) . Only non- technical brains get worked up about this. The fossil record is clear. Change is the only constant. Mars lost its atmosphere and no one is burning coal there.
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    Aug 05, 2015 10:41 AM GMT
    Look at all the scientists in this thread.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 05, 2015 12:04 PM GMT
    ^^^ oh, so witty!
    Being a scientist is not required. Reading all material and reaching your own conclusions is a better deal, unless you like being told what to think, wear, buy, listen to and what types of video games to play.


    http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/06/29/scientists-and-studies-predict-imminent-global-cooling-ahead-drop-in-global-temps-almost-a-slam-dunk/



    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865596452/BYU-Hinckley-lecture-Science-is-clear-violent-video-games-cause-aggression.html?pg=all
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Aug 05, 2015 1:28 PM GMT
    StudlyScrewRite said ^^^ oh, so witty!
    Being a scientist is not required. Reading all material and reaching your own conclusions is a better deal, unless you like being told what to think, wear, buy, listen to and what types of video games to play.


    http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/06/29/scientists-and-studies-predict-imminent-global-cooling-ahead-drop-in-global-temps-almost-a-slam-dunk/



    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865596452/BYU-Hinckley-lecture-Science-is-clear-violent-video-games-cause-aggression.html?pg=all
    Exactly, +200,000
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    Aug 05, 2015 1:47 PM GMT

    opinions are like...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 05, 2015 1:57 PM GMT
    I think climate change is real and is at least somewhat driven by human activity. That being said, I don't think its effects are going to be as consequential and disastrous as many people have predicted, for the simple reason that almost all of the doomsday scenarios that were supposed to have happened by now simply haven't materialized. I therefore think it's reasonable to accept the basic science of climate change (i.e. releasing greenhouse gases will cause atmospheric warming), while being a bit skeptical of what the models are predicting is going to happen as a result.

    On another note, anyone else notice how President Obama always starts to talk about climate change whenever bad economic data gets released? It's clearly the White House strategy for dealing with a still lackluster economy.
  • jeepguySD

    Posts: 651

    Aug 05, 2015 3:04 PM GMT
    Alpha13 said
    tj85016 saidand you want to know what can be done about it? nothing

    so move to higher ground



    Exactly, shore lines have moved all over the place since day one. Cleopatra's palace is now under water and Bodin castle in southern England used to be attacked by Vikings in row boats ( it's inland now) . Only non- technical brains get worked up about this. The fossil record is clear. Change is the only constant. Mars lost its atmosphere and no one is burning coal there.


    Citing the Martian atmosphere is a non sequitur. Climate change on Earth and Mars' loss of its atmosphere are unrelated phenomena.

    Mars lost its atmosphere for two reasons: 1) Mars' mass is only about 10% that of Earth and has an escape velocity that is only about 45% that of Earth, meaning that Mars is unable to retain fast-moving molecules in its atmosphere; and 2) Mars lacks a significant magnetic field (also most likely due to its low mass), exposing its atmosphere to the solar wind which is able to strip away much of the Martian atmosphere. Burning coal is not causing Earth to lose its atmosphere, and no one claims that it is.

    If your point is simply that things change naturally, then yes they do. But that does not mean that human activity cannot accelerate or magnify those changes.
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    Aug 05, 2015 3:59 PM GMT
    donj499 said
    On another note, anyone else notice how President Obama always starts to talk about climate change whenever bad economic data gets released? It's clearly the White House strategy for dealing with a still lackluster economy.


    I can think of worse diversions, like starting a ruinous war, for example.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 05, 2015 4:38 PM GMT
    jeepguySD said
    Alpha13 said
    tj85016 saidand you want to know what can be done about it? nothing

    so move to higher ground



    Exactly, shore lines have moved all over the place since day one. Cleopatra's palace is now under water and Bodin castle in southern England used to be attacked by Vikings in row boats ( it's inland now) . Only non- technical brains get worked up about this. The fossil record is clear. Change is the only constant. Mars lost its atmosphere and no one is burning coal there.


    Citing the Martian atmosphere is a non sequitur. Climate change on Earth and Mars' loss of its atmosphere are unrelated phenomena.

    Mars lost its atmosphere for two reasons: 1) Mars' mass is only about 10% that of Earth and has an escape velocity that is only about 45% that of Earth, meaning that Mars is unable to retain fast-moving molecules in its atmosphere; and 2) Mars lacks a significant magnetic field (also most likely due to its low mass), exposing its atmosphere to the solar wind which is able to strip away much of the Martian atmosphere. Burning coal is not causing Earth to lose its atmosphere, and no one claims that it is.

    If your point is simply that things change naturally, then yes they do. But that does not mean that human activity cannot accelerate or magnify those changes.


    My point is that non techical types drop into superstition naturally in order to get their heads around stuff they don't understand. The earth 's atmosphere used to have a higher co2 percentage than it does now, plants grew to gargantuan proportions ,no speculation required, it's contained in the fossil record. Mass extinction have happened several times, again fossil records.

    If you want to donate your monthly salary to meteor deflection that is fine with me but it's morally objectionable to force me to comply with your beliefs.

    That said I generate power with PV panels and a wind turbine, grow my food and ride an electric bike. You just want to talk and coerce others.

  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Aug 05, 2015 6:34 PM GMT
    Climate change is real and it's a very serious problem. However, Obama's stated plan is woefully inadequate. Half-way measures to deal with climate change will make little difference.

    By the year 2100, the global demand for power will increase by about FOUR TIMES as poor countries strive to lift their people out of poverty. That includes power for heating, cooling, lighting, cooking, transportation, sea water desalination, manufacturing, etc. To reduce CO2 emissions to acceptable levels, about 90% of that power must come from non-CO2 emitting sources.

    Renewables, because of their intermittent nature, can make only a very minor contribution towards reducing CO2 emissions. Renewables are useful only under very limited circumstances.

    It is only nuclear power that can adequately reduce CO2 emissions so that 90% of global power will come from non-CO2 emitting sources. Unfortunately, the anti-nuclear crowd, by making government leaders afraid even to mention nuclear power, are leading us down a very destructive path.

    Even though our current nuclear power technology is worse than mediocre, it still has a far better safety record than any other currently used power generating technology. It is capable of reducing CO2 emissions to an acceptable level and should be greatly expanded until we develop a better nuclear technology.

    The reason we are temporarily stuck with a bad nuclear technology is that funds for R & D for better nuclear technologies were cut off in the late 1960s else we would already be using a better, more economical, more efficient, and safer nuclear power technology. The liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR) looks especially promising, partly because it cannot melt down, but there are also other nuclear technologies that could be used to replace our current pressurized water nuclear reactors.

    Our government leaders should get over their fear of the anti-nuclear crowd and do what should be done, i.e., greatly expand nuclear power while supporting research for better nuclear technologies.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Aug 05, 2015 8:27 PM GMT
    bolero_of_fire saidLook at all the scientists in this thread.


    well having a BSME is pretty close

    and everyone with half a brain knows exactly nothing can be done about climate change - the numbers alone prove it:

    an ever expanding 7.4 billion people burning carbon every second
  • CheeseKraut

    Posts: 145

    Aug 05, 2015 9:46 PM GMT
    I don't know that being terrified is the right response but I don't need another bitch telling me they don't see it.
    Plain ass denial is retarded at this point.

    Myself, I think climate change is real and climate change policy is not.
    You can't turn down the heat on the planet. Anyone who says you can reverse the process is stupid or lying.
    I think it's smart to stop using fossil fuels but it's only gong to help after we have dealt with the planets atmospheric crisis.

    We shat the bed. It's time to lay in a shit bed.
    You can't put that shit back. It's already out.
    We need leaders with the balls to stop pretending everything is going to be ok.
    We need to think about how to deal with it.

    It's not doomsday but it is a bit problem. Populations have to be moved. Agriculture has to be redefined.
    Worse shit has happened but it's still a big one. It's definitely outside of anyone's comfort zone.
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    Aug 06, 2015 12:36 AM GMT
    Unless you plan on conquering and imposing martial law on China and India, there's nothing anyone can do about climate change.
  • dreamcock

    Posts: 427

    Aug 06, 2015 2:10 AM GMT
    shutting down coal plants will do nothing but drive energy bills through the roof- Chinas a far larger country than the U.S. and they do nothing about so called global warming their plants put out far more emissions than any in the U.S.-just another liberal ploy to get more taxes out of the working man! The worlds climate has cyclical patterns that it goes through and has since the beginning of time -call it global warming or global cooling(as they predicted back in the 1970s that we were approaching another ice age)thats just life on this big blue planet.
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    Aug 06, 2015 2:19 AM GMT
    dreamcock saidshutting down coal plants will do nothing but drive energy bills through the roof- Chinas a far larger country than the U.S. and they do nothing about so called global warming their plants put out far more emissions than any in the U.S.-just another liberal ploy to get more taxes out of the working man! The worlds climate has cyclical patterns that it goes through and has since the beginning of time -call it global warming or global cooling(as they predicted back in the 1970s that we were approaching another ice age)thats just life on this big blue planet.


    +1

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    Aug 06, 2015 2:19 AM GMT
    KJSharp saidUnless you plan on conquering and imposing martial law on China and India, there's nothing anyone can do about climate change.


    Well said.

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    Aug 06, 2015 2:23 AM GMT
    CheeseKraut said
    Plain ass denial is retarded at this point.


    Science is never settled and I know a lot about modeling fairly straight-forward physical phenomena. It is approximate at best. Climate modeling is even less so.

    This is just a basic power grab.

  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Aug 06, 2015 3:36 AM GMT
    desertmuscl said
    CheeseKraut said
    Plain ass denial is retarded at this point.


    Science is never settled and I know a lot about modeling fairly straight-forward physical phenomena. It is approximate at best. Climate modeling is even less so.

    This is just a basic power grab.



    when isn't it?

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Aug 06, 2015 3:51 AM GMT
    The argument that China gets to stay up past their bedtime burn coal sounds like the reasoning of a five year old.

    I really don't think humans are evolved mature enough to clean up our own mess.

    icon_confused.gif
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Aug 06, 2015 7:26 PM GMT
    KJSharp saidUnless you plan on conquering and imposing martial law on China and India, there's nothing anyone can do about climate change.


    Both China and India are doing research on advanced nuclear reactors. That's research that we were doing but we unwisely stopped around the late 1960s. Advanced nuclear technology has the potential to solve our global warming problems, but it is rather late.