New Stonewall movie AND Pope visit NY on the same day

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    Aug 05, 2015 9:14 PM GMT
    Now that the trailer is out for this, I can now confess that I screened this film while it was in post production late last year (or beginning of this year I cant remember) and gave it a very good rating or it didn't require much editing or changes. I was not to talk about this film until release. I am looking forward to seeing the final version on screen, again icon_cool.gif







  • Buddha

    Posts: 1765

    Aug 06, 2015 6:34 AM GMT
    "Hard Time" by Seinabo Sey makes everything super-epic.
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    Aug 06, 2015 6:42 AM GMT
    I've been reading a lot of criticism about how it does not include many lesbians or drag queens, especially those of color, and from what I know of history and seeing this trailer, that criticism does seem to have some merit.
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    Aug 06, 2015 12:23 PM GMT
    The first thing I heard about this film was how it wrongly portrays Stonewall as being dominated by white gay men rather than black trans women alongside quite a diverse mix.

    A bit shitty how easily history gets whitewashed.
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    Aug 06, 2015 4:57 PM GMT
    ^^^^You mean this headline? The article posted by someone anonymous?

    Submitted by Anonymous (not verified)

    Whitewashing History: Stonewall Movie Leaves Out Trans Women and Black Drag Queens Who Started The Movement
    http://www.aazah.com/articles/whitewashing-history-stonewall-movie-leaves-out-trans-women-and-black-drag-queens-who#.VcLhlLVRGcw

    It might be that some in our community, are confusing the time frame with drag ball in the decade later Paris Is Burning. In 1969 New York, it was all about Woodstock, although people of color attended, this was mostly a Caucasian event. You have not seen the whole film yet, only the trailer. The Stonewall Inn, in this film, has every race depicted the night the riots started, maybe not the Flamboyant drag queen as in Paris Is Burning, but is does include the trans, drag community, maybe not Flamboyant enough for some in our community.

    The drag community has complained for years about how 'mainstream' gay community has left them out such as the toned down version of there appearances at gay pride parades and festivals. Because they adore the limelight, they for years, hogged the media attention. Our community is diverse, and those who did not identify with the drag community, got left out. There is room for all of us in the LGBTQ-RSTUVWXYZ community.

    I think this version of Stonewall depicts the accurate events recorded which reflects the time frame in 1969 New York. It is a movie, nobody from that era is alive to tell the story so we have to go by written accounts. Even Titanic survivors gave there different versions of what happened the night the ship sank. This version will appeal to gay and straight audiences, I think that maybe the reason for 'toned down' flamboyancy, this is NOT a drag queen story, this is a movement story icon_rolleyes.gif


    Ball culture
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_culture

    Paris Is Burning is a 1990 American documentary film directed by Jennie Livingston. Filmed in the mid-to-late 1980s, it chronicles the ball culture of New York City and the African-American, Latino, gay, and transgender communities involved in it. The film is considered to be an invaluable documentary of the end of the "Golden Age" of New York City drag balls, and critics have praised it as a thoughtful exploration of race, class, gender, and sexuality in America

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    Aug 06, 2015 5:25 PM GMT
    robbaker saidAnother gay narcissistic pretentious circuit type movie with pretty boys .the ones who were there should boycott this movie for making it look glossy.this is one movie i hope bombs perhaps we should send this movie to isis im sure they'll get a kick out of this one.icon_wink.gif




    pretentious circuit type movie? no, more like a period piece icon_rolleyes.gif

    url?sa=i&source=imgres&cd=&ved=0CAUQjBxq
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    Aug 06, 2015 9:22 PM GMT
    A young, Tranny, wants to start a 'riot' over her Marsha being absent from this films credits, https://unite.gsanetwork.org/petitions/boycott-2015-stonewall-movie?source=facebook-share-button&time=1438796321


    And here she is, Chi Chi Rodriguez 'transwomen of color', wanting credit for something she had nothing to do with, I say plug up her twitter box with glitter bombs, they already got the "T" in trans moved from GLBT to TLGB confusing all of us, moving gay men to the back of the bus, thanks a lot Bruce Cait Jenner, I see what's going on here, its a trans-drag queen-invasion icon_rolleyes.gif

    fw2d5JQ.gif



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    Aug 06, 2015 9:40 PM GMT
    I knew this was a conspiracy, in our own community, for shame, for shame, was Marsha mentioned included Paris Is Burning? icon_rolleyes.gif

    Well good, we look forward to the prequel, Too Wong Foo was great too icon_wink.gif



    Happy Birthday Marsha
    http://www.happybirthdaymarsha.com/

    If demonstrating white, male gayness get’s a blockbuster director and major theater release, then representations of transgender and colored femininity can have a harder time finding funding, publicity and audience.

    Happy Birthday Marsha is a film that has been in the works for over a year, about the daily occurrences of Marsha P. Johnson and Silvia Rivera in the moments leading up to Stonewall.

    In a time when Caitlyn Jenner is raising mainstream consciousness for transgender issues, and Americans have a heightened awareness for police brutality against African Americans, will audience members ask during the film, for whom is the revolution televised?

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    Aug 07, 2015 3:20 AM GMT
    This film is LONG overdue and I'm thrilled to see the gay lib pioneers get their due.

    So what if the cast is much prettier and "actor-y" with haircuts and clothes that are attractive enough to be worn today. That's true of ANY movie. It draws audiences, and if it takes a better dressed, better coiffed, more attractive and whitewashed cast to sell our story to both investors and the viewing masses it's better than having our story not made into a feature film at all.
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    Aug 07, 2015 3:57 AM GMT

    I am just appalled at the trans community for all new lows. Such ego driven non sense like this article, drag queens are now offending the tranny, can we get anymore Drama-fied icon_rolleyes.gif



    The new “Stonewall” movie continues a proud Hollywood tradition of erasing key minorities from history
    http://qz.com/473860/the-stonewall-movie-continues-a-proud-american-tradition-of-erasing-minorities-from-hollywood/


    Commercialism breeds conservatism in mainstream Western cinema. Emmerich, the German director responsible for such cinematic beasts as Independence Day and The Day After Tomorrow, hinted as much in a recent interview with Vulture, in which he suggested that the narrative was changed predominantly for funding reasons.

    Indeed, those working in the industry clearly believe that film backers are more likely to financially support films if they feature white, male, and straight bodies prominently on-screen. This despite the fact that according to the Motion Picture Association of America, women go to the movies in higher numbers than men, and Hispanic and African Americans report a higher per capita attendance than white moviegoers.

    In the digital age, controlling the narrative equals power, which is why the LGBT community—particularly during this time of Black Lives Matter and the rise of the trans movement—has reacted so negatively with Stonewall’s early preview. Those in power are the ones who have their narratives passed on. They decide what is classified as “historical truth.”

    Stonewall’s most egregious offence, therefore, is placing a fictitious, gay white character at the center of our history—at the foundation of our movement, of our truth. This film tells us that our lives don’t matter. In fact, according to this version of history we don’t exist—can’t exist—unless it “plays in Peoria.” Ultimately, the bitter hypocrisy of Stonewall is that by declaring its intent to spotlight the community’s “unsung heroes,” it may end up erasing them altogether.


    Drag Queens Banned From Pride Event for Offending Trans People
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/23/drag-queens-banned-from-pride-event-for-offendi-ng-trans-people.html


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    Aug 07, 2015 4:10 AM GMT

    Since I am not part of their drag queen, rue paul, paris is burning, trans community, I had to actually look up the meaning for 'Cis', a term I do not use in my everyday interactions with other people such as family, friends and co-workers, as I have already stated, the "T" has already been moved to the front of the TLQIGB bus, from all the tranny rant so far about this movie, its clear the "G" in TLQIGB deserves to be where they put us, boy, at this particular time, I feel sorry for anyone who identifies as bisexual, coming in dead last, I didn't realize this was a top billing contest within our own community, I am just a regular gay man who is a science nerd, I cant compete with the princess tranny movement icon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gif

    no-drama-tin-sign.jpg




    cisgendered
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cisgendered


    adj form of cisgender

    The opposite of transgendered, someone who is cisgendered has a gender identity that agrees with their societally recognized sex.

    Many transgender people prefer "cisgender" to "biological", "genetic", or "real" male or female because of the implications of those words. Using the term "biological female" or "genetic female" to describe cisgendered individuals excludes transgendered men, who also fit that description. To call a cisgendered woman a "real woman" is exclusive of transwomen, who are considered within their communities to be "real" women, also.

    Some of my friends are trans, but I'm cisgendered.

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    Aug 07, 2015 4:20 AM GMT
    ELNathB said
    Now that the trailer is out for this, I can now confess that I screened this film while it was in post production late last year (or beginning of this year I cant remember) and gave it a very good rating or it didn't require much editing or changes. I was not to talk about this film until release. I am looking forward to seeing the final version on screen, again icon_cool.gif
    I understand the sentiment, as I'm currently in a similar position with another film (keeping my mouth/typing shut about details for now).

    I really want to see this movie! From what I can gather by the trailer, it's basically about what a few of us occasionally bring up...violence DOES solve problems if the violence in in self-defense against others who want to be violent toward us.

    There's a lot more I'd like to say, but I'll just leave you with what's already been said until I can watch this incredible movie. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Aug 07, 2015 4:22 AM GMT

    Transgender life icon_rolleyes.gif



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    Aug 07, 2015 4:33 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    ELNathB said
    Now that the trailer is out for this, I can now confess that I screened this film while it was in post production late last year (or beginning of this year I cant remember) and gave it a very good rating or it didn't require much editing or changes. I was not to talk about this film until release. I am looking forward to seeing the final version on screen, again icon_cool.gif
    I understand the sentiment, as I'm currently in a similar position with another film (keeping my mouth/typing shut about details for now).

    I really want to see this movie! From what I can gather by the trailer, it's basically about what a few of us occasionally bring up...violence DOES solve problems if the violence in in self-defense against others who want to be violent toward us.

    There's a lot more I'd like to say, but I'll just leave you with what's already been said until I can watch this incredible movie. icon_biggrin.gif



    Maybe all the buzz, the tranny department will be generating about it, the film could do very well with mainstream, gay and gay-straight friendly audiences. Honey, "Hell have no fury like a trans women scorned", "ohhh, like nails to a chalk board"

    Now I know why, during audience preview, the age participation range was from 18-34 year olds, leaving out anyone old enough to actually remember the role of, old drag queens, the movie's target demographic is 18-34 year olds, who don't remember anything of the history behind it, i think the directors, direction, was to steer the audience to, about the movement itself, not a Paris is Burning part deux and the story line about the drag queen who through the first brick icon_rolleyes.gif



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    Aug 07, 2015 4:45 AM GMT
    ELNathB said
    paulflexes said
    ELNathB said
    Now that the trailer is out for this, I can now confess that I screened this film while it was in post production late last year (or beginning of this year I cant remember) and gave it a very good rating or it didn't require much editing or changes. I was not to talk about this film until release. I am looking forward to seeing the final version on screen, again icon_cool.gif
    I understand the sentiment, as I'm currently in a similar position with another film (keeping my mouth/typing shut about details for now).

    I really want to see this movie! From what I can gather by the trailer, it's basically about what a few of us occasionally bring up...violence DOES solve problems if the violence in in self-defense against others who want to be violent toward us.

    There's a lot more I'd like to say, but I'll just leave you with what's already been said until I can watch this incredible movie. icon_biggrin.gif



    Maybe all the buzz, the tranny department will be generating about it, the film could do very well with mainstream, gay and gay-straight friendly audiences. Honey, "Hell have no fury like a trans women scorned", "ohhh, like nails to a chalk board"

    Now I know why, during audience preview, the age participation range was from 18-34 year olds, leaving out anyone old enough to actually remember the role of, old drag queens, the movie's target demographic is 18-34 year olds, who don't remember anything of the history behind it, i think the directors, direction, was to steer the audience to, about the movement itself, not a Paris is Burning part deux and the drag queen who through the first brick icon_rolleyes.gif


    And I work in advertisement, albeit as a pilot for airplanes that drag advertisement banners behind them.

    I'm very familiar with "target audience" and other variables along those lines. In fact, that's kinda the reason I'm just recently starting to link my istockphoto page on RJ in a few threads here and there. This site isn't my target audience, but I appreciate the LGBTalphabetsoup business more than the "target" demographic (straight white old fat people) just because of our similarities. icon_wink.gif

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    Aug 07, 2015 4:59 AM GMT
    Original whitewashed Stonewall photos...

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    Aug 07, 2015 5:00 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    ELNathB said
    paulflexes said
    ELNathB said
    Now that the trailer is out for this, I can now confess that I screened this film while it was in post production late last year (or beginning of this year I cant remember) and gave it a very good rating or it didn't require much editing or changes. I was not to talk about this film until release. I am looking forward to seeing the final version on screen, again icon_cool.gif
    I understand the sentiment, as I'm currently in a similar position with another film (keeping my mouth/typing shut about details for now).

    I really want to see this movie! From what I can gather by the trailer, it's basically about what a few of us occasionally bring up...violence DOES solve problems if the violence in in self-defense against others who want to be violent toward us.

    There's a lot more I'd like to say, but I'll just leave you with what's already been said until I can watch this incredible movie. icon_biggrin.gif



    Maybe all the buzz, the tranny department will be generating about it, the film could do very well with mainstream, gay and gay-straight friendly audiences. Honey, "Hell have no fury like a trans women scorned", "ohhh, like nails to a chalk board"

    Now I know why, during audience preview, the age participation range was from 18-34 year olds, leaving out anyone old enough to actually remember the role of, old drag queens, the movie's target demographic is 18-34 year olds, who don't remember anything of the history behind it, i think the directors, direction, was to steer the audience to, about the movement itself, not a Paris is Burning part deux and the drag queen who through the first brick icon_rolleyes.gif


    And I work in advertisement, albeit as a pilot for airplanes that drag advertisement banners behind them.

    I'm very familiar with "target audience" and other variables along those lines. In fact, that's kinda the reason I'm just recently starting to link my istockphoto page on RJ in a few threads here and there. This site isn't my target audience, but I appreciate the LGBTalphabetsoup business more than the "target" demographic (straight white old fat people) just because of our similarities. icon_wink.gif




    Yeah, I can tell you right now, if this director Roland, (Independence Day and Day After Tomorrow) were to focus this movie solely on the drag queen who thru the first brick into Stonewall, the movie would have been considered a "flop" as far as money generation and overall acceptance in mainstream theaters and movie goers. The movie itself would have been relented to small art house or independent theater releases like most of our gay films have been throughout the years. (Brokeback Mountain exception). I don't believe the director meant for this to be an Indy film, subjected to gay only audiences. I think the intention was to "change hearts and minds" about our over all struggle for equality. But leave it to the 'extremists' in our own community to hog the spotlight, as they have always done in the past. I wish they just drop the Drama and enjoy the film with all, gay and straight people.


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    Aug 07, 2015 5:16 AM GMT
    theantijock saidOriginal whitewashed Stonewall photos...





    Impressive find, thank you. I am sure this director and its producers did their, due diligence in research and historical facts, as much as possible. Photographs of the actual scene are very helpful when doing that research. Those are then turned into whats called 'story board' to create a scene. That is what we call movie magic icon_cool.gif



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    Aug 07, 2015 5:30 AM GMT
    ELNathB said
    theantijock saidOriginal whitewashed Stonewall photos...

    Impressive find, thank you. I am sure this director and its producers did their, due diligence in research and historical facts, as much as possible. Photographs of the actual scene are very helpful when doing that research. icon_cool.gif

    Also I'd add that of photos snapped at the time--no cell phones--and of what survived all these years, certainly and especially from the early days, and some of those seem the very day, when this was a brand new fight, it's not as if anyone would have purposely deleted the blacks and the trans peoples. The establishment would have tried to paint us as being as much of a minority as they could manage.

    So given that, I tend to think those photos likely to be representative of the clientele/participants at that time.

    So I suspect some of the whitewashing criticism is incorrect.

    As to the mythical brick. There was a loose brick that happened to be inside the bar? I don't buy that. I've read that it was a purse or a shoe or whatever. I think that is all silly.

    As to the first whatever being thrown by a cross-dressed person, even if so, probably everything erupted quite suddenly, The person who flung her purse might not even have been thinking of a counter attack but of being a smart ass. Who knows how that went down.

    But this was a hangout for our thrown away youth. And I fully understand that they did not want the police trying to take this away from them. It was all they had.

    Just imagine if this happened in the day of cell phone. Some brave soul would have tweeted the first brick.

    However it happened, whatever the details, certainly a very proud moment for us all.
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    Aug 07, 2015 6:00 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    ELNathB said
    theantijock saidOriginal whitewashed Stonewall photos...

    Impressive find, thank you. I am sure this director and its producers did their, due diligence in research and historical facts, as much as possible. Photographs of the actual scene are very helpful when doing that research. icon_cool.gif

    Also I'd add that of photos snapped at the time--no cell phones--and of what survived all these years, certainly and especially from the early days, and some of those seem the very day, when this was a brand new fight, it's not as if anyone would have purposely deleted the blacks and the trans peoples. The establishment would have tried to paint us as being as much of a minority as they could manage.

    So given that, I tend to think those photos likely to be representative of the clientele/participants at that time.

    So I suspect some of the whitewashing criticism is incorrect.

    As to the mythical brick. There was a loose brick that happened to be inside the bar? I don't buy that. I've read that it was a purse or a shoe or whatever. I think that is all silly.

    As to the first whatever being thrown by a cross-dressed person, even if so, probably everything erupted quite suddenly, The person who flung her purse might not even have been thinking of a counter attack but of being a smart ass. Who knows how that went down.

    But this was a hangout for our thrown away youth. And I fully understand that they did not want the police trying to take this away from them. It was all they had.

    Just imagine if this happened in the day of cell phone. Some brave soul would have tweeted the first brick.

    However it happened, whatever the details, certainly a very proud moment for us all.




    I would agree. This was 'upscale' Greenwich Village, Manhattan in 1969 with sky scrapers, not the Bronx, Brooklyn or Queens. We know the NYPD were a mostly all white police force then and as I already said, 1969 was the year of Woodstock, (August 1969) 1.5 months following the riots (June 1969). I am sure some of those who were in the riots ended up at Woodstock. In the following decade, the Village, gay population grew much like San Francisco did in the same time frame.


    They were created to reflect the diversity of the gay Village less than a decade after Stonewall, there was no drag queen performer in this group, if the drag queens played such a large role. Drag queens were underground, with their ball.

    MI0003730105.jpg?partner=allrovi.com


    I don't see any glittering drag queens during the gay liberation front of 1970 icon_question.gif

    6a00d8341c90b153ef017c380c0243970b-500wi

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    Aug 07, 2015 5:55 PM GMT
    ELNathB saidI would agree. This was 'upscale' Greenwich Village, Manhattan in 1969 with sky scrapers, not the Bronx, Brooklyn or Queens. We know the NYPD were a mostly all white police force then and as I already said, 1969 was the year of Woodstock, (August 1969) 1.5 months following the riots (June 1969). I am sure some of those who were in the riots ended up at Woodstock. In the following decade, the Village, gay population grew much like San Francisco did in the same time frame.

    They were created to reflect the diversity of the gay Village less than a decade after Stonewall, there was no drag queen performer in this group, if the drag queens played such a large role. Drag queens were underground, with their ball.

    MI0003730105.jpg?partner=allrovi.com

    I don't see any glittering drag queens during the gay liberation front of 1970 icon_question.gif

    6a00d8341c90b153ef017c380c0243970b-500wi


    Interesting that you note how Stonewall and Woodstock occurred concurrently because somehow in my mind I'd have thought Woodstock preceded, that the sexual revolution paved the way for the gay rights movement; though to study in more depth, which I have not, but just looking quickly, it seems the two mutually inclusive.

    I was a bit too young for either and didn't start partying regularly in the city until the late 70s/early 80s. I don't recall the city being "upscale" though that never would have caught my eye. Didn't matter to me where the party was and many times we were in Harlem which was pretty rough back then, so much for my social climbing.

    And of course I don't know with certainty how representative the Stonewall pictures are. Did the cops already haul away all the drag queens and black people? Though putting into context, how many could there have been? You probably only had few people cross dressing. It's not like they had sex change operations or hormone treatments or whatever back then.

    And then considering how much trouble black people can have coming out of their closets today--thus a downlow issue--what must it have been like then. And even those black people inclined towards social change activism were more likely already involved in their own black civil rights movement. And I could even imagine such an activist not wanting to fight both battles either by energy to maintain just one front, or fear that revealing a secondary front could harm the legitimacy of their primary battle.

    Whereas gay whites had to worry about only one battle, being gay while already enjoying the civil rights of white privilege. So by that alone it makes more sense that more whites were more involved than blacks. So showing that today likely is not a matter of whitewashing gay history and the pictures probably do speak to that.

    I think what throws people sometimes is when they try to look at a past event through their current eyes. Just like when you look at an argument only from your point of view. We have to step outside ourselves to see.
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    Aug 07, 2015 9:21 PM GMT
    The director has spoken and has addressed the upset drag trans community for their diss in top billing icon_rolleyes.gif



    Will There Be Rioting Over the ‘Stonewall’ Movie?
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/06/will-there-be-rioting-over-the-stonewall-movie.html


    On Thursday, director Roland Emmerich was stung into responding to his critics: Yes, he said, he had reframed the riots as a component of a story about youth homelessness.

    Emmerich wrote: “The courageous actions of everyone who fought against injustice in 1969 inspired me to tell a compelling, fictionalized drama of those days centering on homeless LGBT youth, specifically a young midwestern gay man who is kicked out of his home for his sexuality and comes to New York, befriending the people who are actively involved in the events leading up to the riots and the riots themselves.”

    Emmerich said he understood that the trailer had generated “initial concerns about how this character’s involvement is portrayed, but when this film—which is truly a labor of love for me—finally comes to theaters, audiences will see that it deeply honors the real-life activists who were there—including Marsha P. Johnson, Sylvia Rivera, and Ray Castro—and all the brave people who sparked the civil rights movement which continues to this day. We are all the same in our struggle for acceptance.”

    Emmerich’s isn’t the first fictionalized film made about the riots, either: Stonewall (1995) was based on Duberman’s book.

    That movie also features a cute white guy arriving in New York by bus, played by Frederick Weller, and heading straight to Greenwich Village, where he meets a cross-dressing hustler called La Miranda (Guillermo Diaz).

    The 1995 Stonewall was released pre-widespread Internet and so pre-instant Internet fury, and in an era without identity politics as evolved and fervently held as today—and so its mirror-image storyline of Emmerich’s movie didn’t arouse the same controversy.
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    Aug 07, 2015 9:36 PM GMT

    ^^^^I hope drag queen tranny madness shuts the hell up now that part of the movie, the most emotional and part of the ending, as now been revealed to the public before seeing it in theaters. I am sorry director Roland had to reveal this to pease a bunch of loud mouths. I cried at the end of this movie, if its any consolation prize, maybe you will too icon_rolleyes.gif

    As I already said, wait to see the movie first, damit icon_confused.gif


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    Aug 10, 2015 7:14 AM GMT
    Looks as boring as actually going to the Stonewall Inn.
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    Aug 11, 2015 6:21 PM GMT
    eagermuscle saidThis film is LONG overdue and I'm thrilled to see the gay lib pioneers get their due.

    So what if the cast is much prettier and "actor-y" with haircuts and clothes that are attractive enough to be worn today. That's true of ANY movie. It draws audiences, and if it takes a better dressed, better coiffed, more attractive and whitewashed cast to sell our story to both investors and the viewing masses it's better than having our story not made into a feature film at all.


    I don't agree but this is very true!