Lest We Forget: 70 Years Hiroshima

  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Aug 05, 2015 10:34 PM GMT
    August 6th, 1945, 8:15am local time.

  • prototype

    Posts: 194

    Aug 06, 2015 5:19 AM GMT
    Just reminded me of the video Japanese metal band Dir En Grey filmed for Vinushka.

    [url][/url]
  • ASHDOD

    Posts: 1057

    Aug 06, 2015 6:31 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    WrestlerBoy saidAugust 6th, 1945, 8:15am local time.



    And next... Tel Aviv?





    mmm hope not, but don't high jack the thread, its important to remember Hiroshima.
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    Aug 06, 2015 6:47 AM GMT
    we%20will%20remember%20them.jpg
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    Aug 06, 2015 12:58 PM GMT
    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/080515-765219-dropping-atomic-bombs-on-japan-was-necessary.htm

    Hiroshima And Nagasaki: Still Justified 70 Years Later

    From the article:

    "Moreover, as a result of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, what did not need to happen was Operation Downfall, a massive Allied (largely American) invasion of the Japanese home islands that was being actively planned.

    As Allied forces closed in on the home islands, the intentions of Japan's senior military leaders ranged from fighting to the last man to inflicting sufficiently heavy losses on invading U.S. ground forces to make America agree to a conditional peace.

    U.S. strategists knew from having broken the Japanese military and diplomatic codes that Tokyo had virtually no inclination to surrender unconditionally.

    Finally, because the Allied military planners assumed that "operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the Empire (of Japan), but also by a fanatically hostile population," astronomical casualties were thought to be inevitable.

    The losses between February and June 1945 just from the Allied invasions of the Japanese-held Pacific islands of Iwo Jima and Okinawa were staggering: 18,000 dead and 78,000 wounded."

  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Aug 06, 2015 2:23 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    WrestlerBoy saidAugust 6th, 1945, 8:15am local time.



    And next... Tel Aviv?


    lol riiiight, because Tehran has so much to gain from nuking Tel Aviv
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Aug 06, 2015 2:34 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn saidhttp://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/080515-765219-dropping-atomic-bombs-on-japan-was-necessary.htm

    Hiroshima And Nagasaki: Still Justified 70 Years Later

    From the article:

    "Moreover, as a result of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, what did not need to happen was Operation Downfall, a massive Allied (largely American) invasion of the Japanese home islands that was being actively planned.

    As Allied forces closed in on the home islands, the intentions of Japan's senior military leaders ranged from fighting to the last man to inflicting sufficiently heavy losses on invading U.S. ground forces to make America agree to a conditional peace.

    U.S. strategists knew from having broken the Japanese military and diplomatic codes that Tokyo had virtually no inclination to surrender unconditionally.

    Finally, because the Allied military planners assumed that "operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the Empire (of Japan), but also by a fanatically hostile population," astronomical casualties were thought to be inevitable.

    The losses between February and June 1945 just from the Allied invasions of the Japanese-held Pacific islands of Iwo Jima and Okinawa were staggering: 18,000 dead and 78,000 wounded."



    You parroting asshole. 6 of 7 U.S. five-star generals and admirals at the time disagreed with every single lie you just stated. The fact that illiterate fools like you still frame this as a "mercy killing" is repugnant. We killed half as many innocent men, women, and children (not soldiers) as ALL U.S. troops who died in the entire Pacific theater in the entire war.

    Every...every single lie you just stated has been proven to be so, by every single source who was there at the time. It's pricks like you who MAKE people hate the United States.
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    Aug 06, 2015 2:36 PM GMT
    Enough with the tiresome, hand-wringing sanctimony - let alone the angry youngsters' rants - over the A-bombs! The best efforts of revisionist historians notwithstanding, dropping them helped shorten WW2 and save lives. Yes, it was a terrible thing to do, but it had to be done due to Japan's repeated refusal to face reality and surrender, and pales when compared to the whole of Japanese atrocities since it first commenced raping China and the East in the 1930s which, by the way, include its own depredations upon its own people in WW2, who with their mindless adoration of their Emperor god, were hardly as "innocent" as some continue to claim. All those Nanking rapists and Bataan Death March guards didn't just spring up from the soil, after all.

    What concerns me more is the failure of US intelligence to discover and unmask the communists inside the Manhattan Project until it was too late and they had revealed our secrets to Stalin.
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    Aug 06, 2015 2:42 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy said
    rkyjockdn saidhttp://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/080515-765219-dropping-atomic-bombs-on-japan-was-necessary.htm

    Hiroshima And Nagasaki: Still Justified 70 Years Later

    From the article:

    "Moreover, as a result of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, what did not need to happen was Operation Downfall, a massive Allied (largely American) invasion of the Japanese home islands that was being actively planned.

    As Allied forces closed in on the home islands, the intentions of Japan's senior military leaders ranged from fighting to the last man to inflicting sufficiently heavy losses on invading U.S. ground forces to make America agree to a conditional peace.

    U.S. strategists knew from having broken the Japanese military and diplomatic codes that Tokyo had virtually no inclination to surrender unconditionally.

    Finally, because the Allied military planners assumed that "operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the Empire (of Japan), but also by a fanatically hostile population," astronomical casualties were thought to be inevitable.

    The losses between February and June 1945 just from the Allied invasions of the Japanese-held Pacific islands of Iwo Jima and Okinawa were staggering: 18,000 dead and 78,000 wounded."



    You parroting asshole. 6 of 7 U.S. five-star generals and admirals at the time disagreed with every single lie you just stated. The fact that illiterate fools like you still frame this as a "mercy killing" is repugnant. We killed half as many innocent men, women, and children (not soldiers) as ALL U.S. troops who died in the entire Pacific theater in the entire war.

    Every...every single lie you just stated has been proven to be so, by every single source who was there at the time. It's pricks like you who MAKE people hate the United States.


    You need to chill - and watch "The Bomb" on PBS, which gives an even-handed treatment of this story, and should dispel some of your misunderstandings, if not anger, while doing so.
  • steveh

    Posts: 3

    Aug 06, 2015 3:02 PM GMT
    And let's also not forget that Japan murdered somewhere around 6 million non-combatants between 1937 and 1945, and more than 10 million in China alone if you include combatants. The Nanking Massacre is the most famous (300,000 or so murdered). And check out the massacres of Alexandra Hospital, Laha, Banka Island, Parit Sulong, Palawan, SS Behar, SS Tjisalak, Wake Island, Tinta, Shinyou Maru, Sulug Island, and Pontiana. And oh yea, the Bataan Death March. Also look up Japanese Unit 731 which engaged in biological warfare and human experimentation that made the Nazis look downright amateurish. Though it wasn't used much against US forces, in China the Japanese engaged heavily (hundreds of times) in chemical warfare: phosgene, chlorine, Lewisite, nausea gas, and mustard gas. From the comfort of our ivory towers 70 years later, it's easy to condemn use of the A-bombs...such is the danger of self-righteous condemnation when one is ignorant (often willingly so) of the context of an event.
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    Aug 06, 2015 4:32 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy said
    rkyjockdn saidhttp://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/080515-765219-dropping-atomic-bombs-on-japan-was-necessary.htm

    Hiroshima And Nagasaki: Still Justified 70 Years Later

    From the article:

    "Moreover, as a result of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, what did not need to happen was Operation Downfall, a massive Allied (largely American) invasion of the Japanese home islands that was being actively planned.

    As Allied forces closed in on the home islands, the intentions of Japan's senior military leaders ranged from fighting to the last man to inflicting sufficiently heavy losses on invading U.S. ground forces to make America agree to a conditional peace.

    U.S. strategists knew from having broken the Japanese military and diplomatic codes that Tokyo had virtually no inclination to surrender unconditionally.

    Finally, because the Allied military planners assumed that "operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the Empire (of Japan), but also by a fanatically hostile population," astronomical casualties were thought to be inevitable.

    The losses between February and June 1945 just from the Allied invasions of the Japanese-held Pacific islands of Iwo Jima and Okinawa were staggering: 18,000 dead and 78,000 wounded."



    You parroting asshole. 6 of 7 U.S. five-star generals and admirals at the time disagreed with every single lie you just stated. The fact that illiterate fools like you still frame this as a "mercy killing" is repugnant. We killed half as many innocent men, women, and children (not soldiers) as ALL U.S. troops who died in the entire Pacific theater in the entire war.

    Every...every single lie you just stated has been proven to be so, by every single source who was there at the time. It's pricks like you who MAKE people hate the United States.


    Historical documentaries such as the PBS presentation mentioned above notwithstanding, most of the people who lived through the war believed that we had no choice, that the dropping of the bomb saved not only the lives of family members and friends of service age, but that it ultimately saved the lives of millions of Japanese citizens.

    Your attack on me, without the presentation of a single credible source for your claims is simply beneath contempt. Even by RJ standards, it's an unmitigated display of assholery. I invite you to just fuck yourself.

    I've known and spoken to people who were youngsters and of military age during World War II and when I asked them about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they felt it was necessary. Some became defensive, feeling that I had challenged the justification for it.

    Had it not been used in Japan, then where would the first use have been? And what tonnage and what devastation would have resulted. We were working on larger and much more powerful bombs at the time. The horror of the first two may have prevented even more terrible things.

    For those who are interested in the history and development of the two bombs, Little Boy and Fat Man, replicas are on display at the Bradbury Science Museum in Los Alamos, NM (http://www.lanl.gov/museum/) Displays also document the history and development of the bomb, the creation of Los Alamos Labs with the secrecy surrounding it, and current research being performed. It's a worthwhile stop if you're ever in the area.

    The Trinity blast site where the first bomb was tested is open to the public just two days a year. I hope to be able to visit it someday.
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    Aug 06, 2015 4:36 PM GMT
    tj85016 said
    southbeach1500 said
    WrestlerBoy saidAugust 6th, 1945, 8:15am local time.



    And next... Tel Aviv?


    lol riiiight, because Tehran has so much to gain from nuking Tel Aviv


    ummm..

    The commander of Iran’s notorious Basij forces declared Monday that the Islamic Republic’s ultimate goal is the destruction of America and Israel.

    “Today there is no mandate to end our fight because Iran’s greatness in the region and the repeated losses by the Zionists and America are the proof of our fight up to today,” Gen. Mohammad Naghdi said, according to Fars News Agency. “Our ideal is not [nuclear] centrifuges but the destruction of the White House and the annihilation of Zionism [Israel].”


  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Aug 06, 2015 6:56 PM GMT
    From what I have read, the number of Japanese deaths would have been greater if we had not dropped the A bombs.
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    Aug 06, 2015 8:56 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    WrestlerBoy saidAugust 6th, 1945, 8:15am local time.



    And next... Tel Aviv?


    To liberate Palestine.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Aug 06, 2015 10:47 PM GMT
    FRE0 saidFrom what I have read, the number of Japanese deaths would have been greater if we had not dropped the A bombs.


    yeah well, considering the 30 MILLION Russian deaths in WW2 (which nobody ever discusses), dropping a couple A-bombs on Japan was almost a humanitarian gesture

    they surrendered


  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Aug 06, 2015 11:57 PM GMT
    It`s one of the great turning points in human history we shouldn`t forget: the practical knowledge of unparalleled power in nature, and the closing of one war and the opening of the next.
  • ASHDOD

    Posts: 1057

    Aug 07, 2015 10:32 AM GMT
    Aunty_Jack said
    southbeach1500 said
    WrestlerBoy saidAugust 6th, 1945, 8:15am local time.



    And next... Tel Aviv?


    To liberate Palestine.


    you are aware that if they nuke tel aviv there will be no palestin too right? nablus for example is 20 miles from tel aviv icon_rolleyes.gif
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Aug 07, 2015 12:55 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn said
    WrestlerBoy said
    rkyjockdn saidhttp://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/080515-765219-dropping-atomic-bombs-on-japan-was-necessary.htm

    Hiroshima And Nagasaki: Still Justified 70 Years Later

    From the article:

    "Moreover, as a result of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, what did not need to happen was Operation Downfall, a massive Allied (largely American) invasion of the Japanese home islands that was being actively planned.

    As Allied forces closed in on the home islands, the intentions of Japan's senior military leaders ranged from fighting to the last man to inflicting sufficiently heavy losses on invading U.S. ground forces to make America agree to a conditional peace.

    U.S. strategists knew from having broken the Japanese military and diplomatic codes that Tokyo had virtually no inclination to surrender unconditionally.

    Finally, because the Allied military planners assumed that "operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the Empire (of Japan), but also by a fanatically hostile population," astronomical casualties were thought to be inevitable.

    The losses between February and June 1945 just from the Allied invasions of the Japanese-held Pacific islands of Iwo Jima and Okinawa were staggering: 18,000 dead and 78,000 wounded."



    You parroting asshole. 6 of 7 U.S. five-star generals and admirals at the time disagreed with every single lie you just stated. The fact that illiterate fools like you still frame this as a "mercy killing" is repugnant. We killed half as many innocent men, women, and children (not soldiers) as ALL U.S. troops who died in the entire Pacific theater in the entire war.

    Every...every single lie you just stated has been proven to be so, by every single source who was there at the time. It's pricks like you who MAKE people hate the United States.


    Historical documentaries such as the PBS presentation mentioned above notwithstanding, most of the people who lived through the war believed that we had no choice, that the dropping of the bomb saved not only the lives of family members and friends of service age, but that it ultimately saved the lives of millions of Japanese citizens.

    Your attack on me, without the presentation of a single credible source for your claims is simply beneath contempt. Even by RJ standards, it's an unmitigated display of assholery. I invite you to just fuck yourself.

    I've known and spoken to people who were youngsters and of military age during World War II and when I asked them about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they felt it was necessary. Some became defensive, feeling that I had challenged the justification for it.

    Had it not been used in Japan, then where would the first use have been? And what tonnage and what devastation would have resulted. We were working on larger and much more powerful bombs at the time. The horror of the first two may have prevented even more terrible things.

    For those who are interested in the history and development of the two bombs, Little Boy and Fat Man, replicas are on display at the Bradbury Science Museum in Los Alamos, NM (http://www.lanl.gov/museum/) Displays also document the history and development of the bomb, the creation of Los Alamos Labs with the secrecy surrounding it, and current research being performed. It's a worthwhile stop if you're ever in the area.

    The Trinity blast site where the first bomb was tested is open to the public just two days a year. I hope to be able to visit it someday.


    Yes, it was a MERCY KILLING....you asshole. The sooner your entire generation is dead...the better. How THAT for an "attack" on you???
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    Aug 07, 2015 2:01 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy said
    rkyjockdn said
    WrestlerBoy said
    rkyjockdn saidhttp://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/080515-765219-dropping-atomic-bombs-on-japan-was-necessary.htm

    Hiroshima And Nagasaki: Still Justified 70 Years Later

    From the article:

    "Moreover, as a result of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, what did not need to happen was Operation Downfall, a massive Allied (largely American) invasion of the Japanese home islands that was being actively planned.

    As Allied forces closed in on the home islands, the intentions of Japan's senior military leaders ranged from fighting to the last man to inflicting sufficiently heavy losses on invading U.S. ground forces to make America agree to a conditional peace.

    U.S. strategists knew from having broken the Japanese military and diplomatic codes that Tokyo had virtually no inclination to surrender unconditionally.

    Finally, because the Allied military planners assumed that "operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the Empire (of Japan), but also by a fanatically hostile population," astronomical casualties were thought to be inevitable.

    The losses between February and June 1945 just from the Allied invasions of the Japanese-held Pacific islands of Iwo Jima and Okinawa were staggering: 18,000 dead and 78,000 wounded."



    You parroting asshole. 6 of 7 U.S. five-star generals and admirals at the time disagreed with every single lie you just stated. The fact that illiterate fools like you still frame this as a "mercy killing" is repugnant. We killed half as many innocent men, women, and children (not soldiers) as ALL U.S. troops who died in the entire Pacific theater in the entire war.

    Every...every single lie you just stated has been proven to be so, by every single source who was there at the time. It's pricks like you who MAKE people hate the United States.


    Historical documentaries such as the PBS presentation mentioned above notwithstanding, most of the people who lived through the war believed that we had no choice, that the dropping of the bomb saved not only the lives of family members and friends of service age, but that it ultimately saved the lives of millions of Japanese citizens.

    Your attack on me, without the presentation of a single credible source for your claims is simply beneath contempt. Even by RJ standards, it's an unmitigated display of assholery. I invite you to just fuck yourself.

    I've known and spoken to people who were youngsters and of military age during World War II and when I asked them about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they felt it was necessary. Some became defensive, feeling that I had challenged the justification for it.

    Had it not been used in Japan, then where would the first use have been? And what tonnage and what devastation would have resulted. We were working on larger and much more powerful bombs at the time. The horror of the first two may have prevented even more terrible things.

    For those who are interested in the history and development of the two bombs, Little Boy and Fat Man, replicas are on display at the Bradbury Science Museum in Los Alamos, NM (http://www.lanl.gov/museum/) Displays also document the history and development of the bomb, the creation of Los Alamos Labs with the secrecy surrounding it, and current research being performed. It's a worthwhile stop if you're ever in the area.

    The Trinity blast site where the first bomb was tested is open to the public just two days a year. I hope to be able to visit it someday.


    Yes, it was a MERCY KILLING....you asshole. The sooner your entire generation is dead...the better. How THAT for an "attack" on you???


    A bit pathetic.
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    Aug 07, 2015 7:41 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy said
    rkyjockdn saidhttp://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/080515-765219-dropping-atomic-bombs-on-japan-was-necessary.htm

    Hiroshima And Nagasaki: Still Justified 70 Years Later

    ...



    You parroting asshole. 6 of 7 U.S. five-star generals and admirals at the time disagreed with every single lie you just stated. The fact that illiterate fools like you still frame this as a "mercy killing" is repugnant. We killed half as many innocent men, women, and children (not soldiers) as ALL U.S. troops who died in the entire Pacific theater in the entire war.

    Every...every single lie you just stated has been proven to be so, by every single source who was there at the time. It's pricks like you who MAKE people hate the United States.


    Citations? It would be interesting to know the names of the disagreeing generals and admirals.

    However, the concept of "innocent" civilians is fraught with overblown sanctimoniousness in general. The Japanese nation, including those men and women not in uniform, was quite busily supporting the Japanese military machine, not out in the streets protesting the war nor refusing to work in the military armaments factories. As to the children, of course they are innocent up to a certain age, but then their parents should have considered their innocence before starting the war, shouldn't they!

    One of the principles by which to live is not to start something one cannot finish. The Japanese started WWII with the United States by bombing Pearl Harbor. At that point, the United States became justified in finishing it. The atomic bomb did just that without the further loss of any American lives. Full stop. Japan miscalculated. The message here for all is not to engage in bellicose activities in the first place, and for the civilians in any country not to support and actively to resist their own government's erroneous policies.

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    Aug 07, 2015 10:46 PM GMT
    tj85016 said
    FRE0 saidFrom what I have read, the number of Japanese deaths would have been greater if we had not dropped the A bombs.


    yeah well, considering the 30 MILLION Russian deaths in WW2 (which nobody ever discusses), dropping a couple A-bombs on Japan was almost a humanitarian gesture

    they surrendered




    Anyone who has read any history knows this.

  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Aug 07, 2015 11:30 PM GMT
    WAR is hell ... Blame the government leaders, the people just follow like puppets. The Japanese government of that time is also to blame for what happened to the Japanese people. At that time they were very much like isis with their kamikaze pilots, blindly giving up their lives for their god leader. Their people were following their leader as if he was a god, because that is what they believed at that time.

    Their soldier did some very horrendous things to captured American soldiers. My uncles spoke of stories of coming across dead American soldiers that had been skin alive, beheaded and dismembered.

    So let's not just remember what happened at Hiroshima. Let's remember all the people that suffer when government (and religions) collide.

    Check out the causality list for world war II. It was the worst in history. The numbers of casualties are in the millions. So let's hope we never ever have to ever go there again.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
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    Aug 08, 2015 12:47 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidWAR is hell ... Blame the government leaders, the people just follow like puppets. The Japanese government of that time is also to blame for what happened to the Japanese people. At that time they were very much like isis with their kamikaze pilots, blindly giving up their lives for their god leader. Their people were following their leader as if he was a god, because that is what they believed at that time.

    Their soldier did some very horrendous things to captured American soldiers. My uncles spoke of stories of coming across dead American soldiers that had been skin alive, beheaded and dismembered.

    So let's not just remember what happened at Hiroshima. Let's remember all the people that suffer when government (and religions) collide.

    Check out the causality list for world war II. It was the worst in history. The numbers of casualties are in the millions. So let's hope we never ever have to ever go there again.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties


    "much like isis with their kamikaze pilots"

    Yep, I had two uncles whom I never had the chance to meet.

    One was killed on Dec 13, 1944 in the kamikaze attack on the USS Nashville. My dad survived because he was up on the radar tower making emergency repairs after the previous kamikaze attempt. He did have the duty, along with the rest of the surviving crew, of cleaning up the charred remains of the 1/3 of the crew who were killed in that attack that day. Including picking the remains of his own brother.

    The other 19 yr old brother was skinned alive in a Japanese POW death camp.

    Even just before my dad's passing in 2013, when the nurses at St. Anns would ask him if he knew his name and ask him if he knew the date, he would never answer 2013, but instead said it was Dec 13, 1944. That's the impact this had on him. We didn't know the exact date of death of his other brother in the POW camp.
  • interesting

    Posts: 584

    Aug 08, 2015 5:17 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidWAR is hell ... Blame the government leaders, the people just follow like puppets. The Japanese government of that time is also to blame for what happened to the Japanese people. At that time they were very much like isis with their kamikaze pilots, blindly giving up their lives for their god leader. Their people were following their leader as if he was a god, because that is what they believed at that time.

    Their soldier did some very horrendous things to captured American soldiers. My uncles spoke of stories of coming across dead American soldiers that had been skin alive, beheaded and dismembered.

    So let's not just remember what happened at Hiroshima. Let's remember all the people that suffer when government (and religions) collide.


    Those are the most profound facts stated here. A handful of people are responsible for putting all those lives on their death beds. Hiroshima, and every casualty in war is a reminder that very few is controlling the abundantly many.
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    Aug 08, 2015 4:41 PM GMT
    rubrod64 said...For example, under this mindset the US, Israel and other Western allies are within their right to produce nuclear weapons, because they have the responsibility to protect their sovereignty, security and interests. However if an "enemy" wants to do the same for the exact same reasons, then the US and its allies have the prerogative to sanction, isolate and threaten with military action any country they believe should not have them.

    The difference is the "enemy" has overtly threatened to wipe another country off the map - not just a fringe element, but, in the case of Iran, the Republican Guard, and seconded by their Supreme Leader. The western countries, Israel, and Russia have not made such threats.

    The real problem with some thinking is the moral equivalency.