A Socialist Wrote America's Pledge of Allegiance

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    Aug 13, 2015 3:50 AM GMT
    just thought I'd mention...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy
    Bellamy...championed the rights of working people and the equal distribution of economic resources...

    ...Francis Bellamy was a leader in three related movement groups – the public education movement, which sought to celebrate and expand public schools, the nationalist movement, which sought to nationalize public services and protect them from privatization, and the Christian socialist movement, which sought to promote an economy based on justice and equality...
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Aug 13, 2015 12:48 PM GMT
    Socialism in sensible moderation can be very good for the U.S. But at the same token, it is not a viable substitute for free market capitalism. It is necessary to offset the negative side effects of certain major capitalist decisions and also to protect the people from unethical business and employment practices but socialism is in no way a viable alternative to capitalism. I prefer a moderate mix of capitalism and socialism which would serve kind of like a checks and balances of both the public and private sectors. This is why I am a centrist.
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    Aug 13, 2015 1:02 PM GMT
    Actually the Pledge of Allegiance was originally intended to be used by any person in any country. It wasn't until 1923 that it was changed to be proprietary to the USA.

    http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm
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    Aug 13, 2015 1:32 PM GMT
    Whatever its origins and uses, the Pledge stands on its own, and shouldn't be used as a vehicle for enhancing the status of socialism, whose failures worldwide are the best evidence of its foolishness.
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    Aug 13, 2015 3:24 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidActually the Pledge of Allegiance was originally intended to be used by any person in any country. It wasn't until 1923 that it was changed to be proprietary to the USA.

    http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

    Still written by a socialist; my statement stands as does southbeach every time he covers his heart in socialistic prayer. Hillary!

    MGINSD saidWhatever its origins and uses, the Pledge stands on its own, and shouldn't be used as a vehicle for enhancing the status of socialism, whose failures worldwide are the best evidence of its foolishness.

    Oh counselor, laissez faire to a faulty fault. Our own country, including the better parts of it, are infused with socialism.

    I know you've already told us how that's not socialism but civility. Which I take as your way of admitting that capitalism on its own is rather rude.

    A lawyer one percenter cousin proposed to me the other day a hypothetical I suppose from back to his college days. Let's see if you can figure out my answer and feel free to offer yours:

    Two men in the desert. One has water the other has none. There's only enough water for one to survive traveling the day it will take to reach safety.

    You're the guy with the water. What do you do and why?

    Socialism1.jpg

    Among my multi-colorful ancestors was one imprisoned into a Siberian work camp for being a socialist back in the day of the empire and another was a socialist organizer in the states, my great grandfather who's wife later became a communist upon which my grandfather stopped speaking to her and I only learned she existed recently, long after grandpa's death. He never spoke a word about her to me. Very unlike a Jewish man to never mention his mother whose praises we tend sing. It's an oddly mixed background of big money, of socialism, of entertainment going back to Vaudeville and with even some Buddhism thrown in for flavor, all possibly influencing my perceptions. I don't know if my answer to the hypothetical will surprise you, or horrify you, but I'm pretty certain as much as I believe in sharing that mine would not be yours.
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    Aug 13, 2015 10:35 PM GMT
    Well then, to adopt your illogic, if not end your casting aspersions - will anything, ever? - I'll choose - I still have a choice in your brave new world, don't I? - to keep you guessing and not share my choice. See, The Lady & The Tiger. You might also ponder your presumption that our answers would not be the same, but I leave that to you as well. And, you might also consider the difference between socialism/forced "sharing" and true generosity, which arises inside the individual without any prompts, let alone prods, from others, or expectation of recompense. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then I'll be the one not surprised.
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    Aug 13, 2015 11:39 PM GMT
    MSG saidgiphy.gif


    Gee, that sounded somewhat sanctimonious from a guy who’s called for my ouster.

    I’m going to guess by this that you must have noticed I called out your bullshit on the cardio/lifesaving thang. Oh how funny. That’s not casting aspersions, counselor, that’s reeling in reality.

    As to whatever the fuck response was this of yours: babble babble babble babble; my God, should Universe ever deplete of pomposity, you’d cease to have ever existed.
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    Aug 14, 2015 4:20 AM GMT


    3446081023_67df300900.jpg
  • wellwell

    Posts: 2265

    Aug 14, 2015 5:07 AM GMT
    I bet a whole dollar you will never see Emperor Obama pledging his allegiance to our flag, nor to the Republic for which it stands !
  • wellwell

    Posts: 2265

    Aug 14, 2015 5:09 AM GMT
    desertmuscl said

    3446081023_67df300900.jpg




    Good One Dez!
  • Buddha

    Posts: 1767

    Aug 14, 2015 5:45 AM GMT
    Oh come on guys, stop being so terrified of socialism. People who couldn't afford healthcare got healthcare.

    Take it from Sweden,

    tumblr_mu0azcwScZ1shbuipo1_500.gif
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    Aug 14, 2015 1:26 PM GMT
    wellwell saidI bet a whole dollar you will never see Emperor Obama pledging his allegiance to our flag, nor to the Republic for which it stands !


    Quite right; he reserves his bows and homages for fellow monarchs and Muslims.

    I recall chairing a Log Cabin Republicans election endorsements meeting in SF once. As always, we began our meeting with the Pledge. Some of the Democratic candidates in the audience began to snigger halfway thru it. At its conclusion, I took great pleasure in reminding the audience - read, them - of what the Pledge means, how it came to be, and why we recite it before we begin, as many courts do across the country before going into session. The cynics were stifled and cowed, and several of them came up to me afterwards and apologized for their behavior. I was happy to have changed a few minds that day.
  • Hypertrophile

    Posts: 1021

    Aug 14, 2015 1:56 PM GMT
    desertmuscl said

    3446081023_67df300900.jpg


    Even if these two definitions weren't false, the sign presents a false dichotomy.
  • Hypertrophile

    Posts: 1021

    Aug 14, 2015 2:09 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidSocialism in sensible moderation can be very good for the U.S. But at the same token, it is not a viable substitute for free market capitalism. It is necessary to offset the negative side effects of certain major capitalist decisions and also to protect the people from unethical business and employment practices but socialism is in no way a viable alternative to capitalism. I prefer a moderate mix of capitalism and socialism which would serve kind of like a checks and balances of both the public and private sectors. This is why I am a centrist.


    I think that this is close to the philosophy that Bernie Sanders espouses. I would also add to the above that free market capitalism is no substitute for socialism either.

    I don't want most businesses run by the state, but I also want businesses to protect worker rights and safety, protect the environment, and provide goods that are safe and effective. Government regulations are the people overseeing business to ensure these things.
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    Aug 14, 2015 2:14 PM GMT
    Physiqueflex said
    roadbikeRob saidSocialism in sensible moderation can be very good for the U.S. But at the same token, it is not a viable substitute for free market capitalism. It is necessary to offset the negative side effects of certain major capitalist decisions and also to protect the people from unethical business and employment practices but socialism is in no way a viable alternative to capitalism. I prefer a moderate mix of capitalism and socialism which would serve kind of like a checks and balances of both the public and private sectors. This is why I am a centrist.


    I think that this is close to the philosophy that Bernie Sanders espouses. I would also add to the above that free market capitalism is no substitute for socialism either.

    I don't want most businesses run by the state, but I also want businesses to protect worker rights and safety, protect the environment, and provide goods that are safe and effective. Government regulations are the people overseeing business to ensure these things.


    Exactly. Reasonable government regulations, enacted by the people, are not "socialism."
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    Aug 14, 2015 2:27 PM GMT
    As American as...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
    ...The revival of republicanism in the American Revolution of 1776 and the revival of egalitarianism in the French Revolution of 1789 converged into the rise of socialism as a distinct political movement by the turn of the century...
  • waccamatt

    Posts: 1918

    Aug 15, 2015 1:59 AM GMT
    MGINSD saidWhatever its origins and uses, the Pledge stands on its own, and shouldn't be used as a vehicle for enhancing the status of socialism, whose failures worldwide are the best evidence of its foolishness.


    Failures? Revisionism. Most of the "happiest countries" surveys show those with solid social programs being mostly at the top.