I believe that there are too many coincidences for this all to be a random occurrence, but I do think it's a combination of science and spirit. Things like soulmates & deja vu can be incredibly powerful. I don't know why the floating set of molecules that is my bf is someone I want to be around forever, but that's what it is.
If you've seen 'Signs', I subscribe to that theory (but always questioning my beliefs in general - I think that's healthy).
I think it may be a combination of the two. Free will is a big part of what we are as physical beings. Free will allows us to think freely and make choices at any given time.
In contrast, I think our spirit may have a set agenda before incarnating into a body to learn and experience certain lessons. How we deal with those agendas is completely up to us and how we execute our free will.
When I reflect back on all the errors I've made I try to remind myself that as a human I'm here to learn. And I believe that if I'm able to truly accept the lesson in those previous experiences that I won't repeat those same errors. Because if you do, what the point really?
The WEASEL word in this one is "random" which means that events are independent, uncorrelated, distinct.
In fact, our lives are highly correlated! It may have plenty of spontaneity, but because I'm an individual localized in the world, there is a powerful continuity condition that disintegrates this notion of "randomness".
blinktwice4y saidit is intellectually dishonest to think that life, the world, the universe, or existence is anything but a random occurrence.
In truth, I don't think "random occurrence" is really well-specified enough to debate :-( I just think it is a bit weaselly, that's all.
If you mean that the existence of life is a "fluctuation", then I agree, but just as many systems in nature proceed to a state of self-organization through a random series of microstates, I think it's more relevant (at least from my view as a scientist) to discuss the question: within the constraints of the universe, how likely is "life" to occur within a certain timeframe? Science probably isn't capable at the moment of really answering this question.
Our lives on the other hand are quite another matter. Even if individually our *existence* has a certain randomness to it (although again random is only valid within the phase space that is greatly constrained by the prior constraint of the existence of our parents), our lives really do not fit the definition of random as I discussed.
im not speaking to organization. im speaking to how i defined "random" as to no conscious effort or decision is made.
the fact that life has occurred at least once and speculated to have occurred more than once on this planet alone shows that it really isn't all that unlikely.
life is merely an emergent property of random occurrences of inanimate objects that evolve to have the ability to organize and replicate.
if you are proposing that life is not a random occurrence please state the method as to how a conscious decision is made to have created life.
An impossible question to answer. There is some "randomness" to every human existence.
Some of the most important events in one's life could be construed as "random". Which sperm manages to make it the egg is not a pre-planned conscious decision, it just happens. Even the decision for the parents to have sex is not necessarily pre-planned.
My mom once told me that the only reason I exist is due to too much wine one night in Washington DC (hard to be arrogant when you realize your whole existence could be due to a bad Merlot).
She also told me she tried to start the lawn mower once even though she suspected she may have been pregnant. She nearly lost the pregnancy. I was the lucky (or unlucky) fetus.
The older we get, and the more we develop into separate and independent human beings, then the more our actions take out some of the randomness of life.
I could write pages about such a complex question, but I would bore you to tears, and probably unintentionally start a flame war.
Uhhhh zim, banana lumpia is too amazing to be a completely random occurrence. Chicken panang is all the proof that I need that there is a creator. Panang is too fugn' divine to be a random occurrence. Mabuhai!
ZiMsTeR said Spirituality doesn't become you. Apparently.
i dont subscribe to spirituality. however, i am able to appreciate the beauty, sacredness, and frailty of life and how we should constantly strive to conserve it and appreciate it.
when i use words like spiritual, soul, or pneuma, i mean them completely restricted to their physical definitions.
the fact that there is nothing beyond this life does not devalue it. it only makes life here that much more valuable and sacred.
i champion anyone that works to preserve life and minimize suffering. i just ask that is done for life's sake, not for the after life's.
Is this the same blinktwice4y who posted my private e-mail on the public forum? I really think that was distasteful and inappropriate. Sorry I was wrong about admiring you because of Sister Act OST but what you did was totally uncalled for and almost incomprehensible. I'm glad people here know how transparent I am and it all just got ignored. Did that make you a better person?
blinktwice4y saidlife is merely an emergent property of random occurrences of inanimate objects that evolve to have the ability to organize and replicate.
errrr..... this is exactly what I claimed when I said: "many systems in nature proceed to a state of self-organization through a random series of microstates"
I am pleased we agree.
The definition of "random" as requiring conscious effort is totally at odds with the statistically motivated one: it seems highly problematic to describe as "random" an emergent property that is an *inevitable* result of processes that nonetheless might be strictly random in themselves.
I don't think life is random in so much that it will just "happen" but that life, in the universe is suppose to exist.. but not because of some divine intervention but because I think that the universe needs life as much as life needs the universe and that the two can not exist without each other..
but.. dats just my thoughts.. I wanna go back to bed!
I think the more important question is, what do you believe in otherwise zim?
Destiny/Fate (Divine or not)?
And why blame the Devil?
I say yes it is relatively random, if you are using it as a counterpoint against some sort of manipulation (be it by God or through choices).
Otherwise, as TigerTim says, events are all interconnected. There is always cause and effect, cycles, patterns, etc that it is not at all impossible that if given omniscience, then we could probably predict everything. Problem is we can't know everything which is why there are fields like probability or logic etc. To at least know what little we can by studying patterns or tracing paths and measurable values. It's prediction in a way. Even most of the seemingly spontaneous events that can disrupt patterns, if you look back far enough you'll see they are also part of a larger pattern. So no, probably nothing is 'random' in the scale we are talking about, from the nanosecond-long frantic game of billiards of the smallest of subatomic particles to the billion-year dance of the stars. However, they may be truly random events that spark all of this off, so yes it will still be random in a sense.
However, belief in supernatural destiny is a different matter. It implies that everything has to follow a set path by the command of someone or something - i.e. set, unchangeable, inevitable, linear. Asides from being a rather blatant contradiction to 'free will' supposedly given by God, it's very easy to fall into false logic with this. A coincidence becomes destiny, a missed or misfired connection from stimulus becomes Deja Vu, a seemingly higher incidence of one event in correlation with another becomes evidence of divine intervention, temporarily unexplainable phenomena become miracles. The fallacy of this, is that we tend to ignore the fact that these happen very rarely.
One of my sisters and my Mom is kinda like this. They're big believers of Feng Shui and old-wives' tales among other things (as well as being devout Catholics, go figure). For example, if a bird flies into the house, they go frantic trying to let it out because it is said that it's an omen of death. Doesn't matter that in the dozens of times this has happened no one has died soon after.
Same with soulmates. Whenever we see someone really suited for each other, we say they are soulmates. And yet we ignore the fact that soulmates are probably breaking up with each other everyday, and then we shrug and say 'then they were probably not soulmates'. Don't you see the sheer contradiction in that. How then can you determine soulmates?
The same false correlation is used in fortune telling. Notice that they use the broadest and most ambiguous terms possible? Ladies and gentlemen, Sylvia Brown:
The woman who got rich by taking advantage of the gullibility of people.
And then there are the hippie psychics who tell you of your past lives, that you were Cleopatra in your past reincarnation. I mean, come on! She probably says that to everyone she 'mediums' for, because she knows no other historical figure other than Cleopatra and Jesus Christ. And then there's the erm.. postponed doomsday prophecies, the elaborate rituals said to bring about a certain event which fails miserably (so they'd have to sacrifice a virgin to appease the gods and do the ritual again), or the daily zodiac predictions which really only fits vaguely (if ever) about once every 2 years, etc.
Consider one thing. Everything eventually comes back to your own filter of perception. Gullibility often comes from an innate desire to want to believe. Regardless of the fact that there ARE legitimate studies on these, and they may contradict your own deductions.
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha
Note how common sense is also part of it. Not only your own beliefs. Objectivity in wanting to know the truth requires not only others to be honest to you, but you to be honest to yourself.
If you want to see signs, you will see signs... everywhere! I only hope that you'll realize how ridiculous it is when you start counting the number of blue cars passing by in the span of 5 minutes as indication of how many babies you will have someday, or when you click send on the hundredth make-a-wish-to-Momma-Mary-and-send-this-to-40-other-people-to-make-it-come-true chain emails.
Bakejenson saidUhhhh zim, banana lumpia is too amazing to be a completely random occurrence. Chicken panang is all the proof that I need that there is a creator. Panang is too fugn' divine to be a random occurrence. Mabuhai!
The two opposing theories here are chaos versus predestination.
On the one side you have chaos where everything is random and unplanned. Things just happen.
With predestination everything is planned and set in stone. Even though you have free will, certain occurrences will occur and effect the correct people at the right time.
I'm pretty much a believer of predestination. I believe that certain things will happen in order to set other occurrences into motion. It's all part of a bigger picture or master plan. Kind of like the ripples in a pond when you toss a stone into it.
These theories have roots in Christianity whereby it is beleived that we will have certain events in our life. The only free will we truly have is wether we will turn to God when this happens.
It's an interesting field to study but ultimately it cannot be proven as no real proof exists.
brandohsaurus saidWhy does the devil get blamed for everything we do not understand?
Because someone must get the blame. We dare not blame ourselves for our faux pas. So it's a matter of blaming someone else.And there's no one better than the devil
brandohsaurus saidWhy does the devil get blamed for everything we do not understand?
Because someone must get the blame. We dare not blame ourselves for our faux pas. So it's a matter of blaming someone else.And there's no one better than the devil
brandohsaurus saidWhy does the devil get blamed for everything we do not understand?
Because someone must get the blame. We dare not blame ourselves for our faux pas. So it's a matter of blaming someone else.And there's no one better than the devil
Sometimes. I'm a spiritual kinda guy so I do believe certain things happen for a reason. I have a few experiences that have made me strongly believe in that.
IHG84 saidSometimes. I'm a spiritual kinda guy so I do believe certain things happen for a reason. I have a few experiences that have made me strongly believe in that.
IHG84 saidSometimes. I'm a spiritual kinda guy so I do believe certain things happen for a reason. I have a few experiences that have made me strongly believe in that.
It's important to see the 'coincidences' in your life for what they are. If anything it gives you pause to think about your existence and reason for being.
I'm in the middle of experiencing the unfolding of certain events in my life and I believe it's setting me up for the next phase of my life. It's quite amazing to interpret everything that's going and seeing it link to other situations and people.
IHG84 saidSometimes. I'm a spiritual kinda guy so I do believe certain things happen for a reason. I have a few experiences that have made me strongly believe in that.
Why, did the devil contact you?
Yes, but when I told him that if he was going to hang around he needed to help with the rent.. He mysteriously vanished
IHG84 saidSometimes. I'm a spiritual kinda guy so I do believe certain things happen for a reason. I have a few experiences that have made me strongly believe in that.
It's important to see the 'coincidences' in your life for what they are. If anything it gives you pause to think about your existence and reason for being.
I'm in the middle of experiencing the unfolding of certain events in my life and I believe it's setting me up for the next phase of my life. It's quite amazing to interpret everything that's going and seeing it link to other situations and people.
It is pretty amazing.
When I got injured in the military it sucked a lot. I missed being with my unit most of all the guy I'm in love with who was with me there. Wanted to be able to watch out for him over there along with the other guys I served with but mostly him.
I didn't want to come home at all, and felt a bit useless because I was dealing with some serious PTSD, and the impact of the IED that had gone off caused me to forget a lot of things.
Not only am I thankful the blast didn't maim or kill me. Me being sent home also allowed me to spend time with my father before he passed away. It was great too. A lot of the time I spent with him helped me remember things I couldn't. It also made this whole PTSD thing just a bit better remembering some of the things he taught me.
So yea I do believe in coincidences, or chance and they can be fun or annoying lol. But I do think certain things happen for a reason sometimes you just don't realize it until later on.
My parents full on new the potential consequences of such disgusting hetrosexual relations. Maybe they never considered they would end up stuck for18 years with a crazy hyperactive kid, future homo that borders on the truly insane at times.... but that's something they should have considered
IHG84 saidSometimes. I'm a spiritual kinda guy so I do believe certain things happen for a reason. I have a few experiences that have made me strongly believe in that.
It's important to see the 'coincidences' in your life for what they are. If anything it gives you pause to think about your existence and reason for being.
I'm in the middle of experiencing the unfolding of certain events in my life and I believe it's setting me up for the next phase of my life. It's quite amazing to interpret everything that's going and seeing it link to other situations and people.
It is pretty amazing.
When I got injured in the military it sucked a lot. I missed being with my unit most of all the guy I'm in love with who was with me there. Wanted to be able to watch out for him over there along with the other guys I served with but mostly him.
I didn't want to come home at all, and felt a bit useless because I was dealing with some serious PTSD, and the impact of the IED that had gone off caused me to forget a lot of things.
Not only am I thankful the blast didn't maim or kill me. Me being sent home also allowed me to spend time with my father before he passed away. It was great too. A lot of the time I spent with him helped me remember things I couldn't. It also made this whole PTSD thing just a bit better remembering some of the things he taught me.
So yea I do believe in coincidences, or chance and they can be fun or annoying lol. But I do think certain things happen for a reason sometimes you just don't realize it until later on.
It is amazing that you were able to gain positivity from a negative situation. I would like to ask if you are still with this guy that you served with?
I have seen some pretty horrific things happen to people and I struggle to think what they can take out of it that could be positive.
The other day I attempted to 'reverse engineer' my life and career by positing that if I did not do X when I met Y I would not have gotten to point B, etc. And all of this culminate to the point of who I am today and where I am. And it is a way of grooming me for whatever I still need to achieve in this lifetime.
You'll have to excuse me. I tend to be extremely self-analitycal. My friends tell me to switch my brain off and drink beer and screw instead. lol.
But I truly believe that if you are still alive it's because a Higher Being still needs you for something important.
IHG84 saidSometimes. I'm a spiritual kinda guy so I do believe certain things happen for a reason. I have a few experiences that have made me strongly believe in that.
It's important to see the 'coincidences' in your life for what they are. If anything it gives you pause to think about your existence and reason for being.
I'm in the middle of experiencing the unfolding of certain events in my life and I believe it's setting me up for the next phase of my life. It's quite amazing to interpret everything that's going and seeing it link to other situations and people.
It is pretty amazing.
When I got injured in the military it sucked a lot. I missed being with my unit most of all the guy I'm in love with who was with me there. Wanted to be able to watch out for him over there along with the other guys I served with but mostly him.
I didn't want to come home at all, and felt a bit useless because I was dealing with some serious PTSD, and the impact of the IED that had gone off caused me to forget a lot of things.
Not only am I thankful the blast didn't maim or kill me. Me being sent home also allowed me to spend time with my father before he passed away. It was great too. A lot of the time I spent with him helped me remember things I couldn't. It also made this whole PTSD thing just a bit better remembering some of the things he taught me.
So yea I do believe in coincidences, or chance and they can be fun or annoying lol. But I do think certain things happen for a reason sometimes you just don't realize it until later on.
It is amazing that you were able to gain positivity from a negative situation. I would like to ask if you are still with this guy that you served with?
I have seen some pretty horrific things happen to people and I struggle to think what they can take out of it that could be positive.
The other day I attempted to 'reverse engineer' my life and career by positing that if I did not do X when I met Y I would not have gotten to point B, etc. And all of this culminate to the point of who I am today and where I am. And it is a way of grooming me for whatever I still need to achieve in this lifetime.
You'll have to excuse me. I tend to be extremely self-analitycal. My friends tell me to switch my brain off and drink beer and screw instead. lol.
But I truly believe that if you are still alive it's because a Higher Being still needs you for something important.
Yea I'm still with him, its been 7 or 8 years we've been together. He'll be coming home from Afghanistan in January. I definitely pray for him everyday and night too.
I do all of that too sometimes, and my buddies tell me to relax as well lol.
I don't know if I was meant to do anything really important. However I'm happy knowing I'm very important to the people who love me, and come to me to talk.
IHG84 saidSometimes. I'm a spiritual kinda guy so I do believe certain things happen for a reason. I have a few experiences that have made me strongly believe in that.
It's important to see the 'coincidences' in your life for what they are. If anything it gives you pause to think about your existence and reason for being.
I'm in the middle of experiencing the unfolding of certain events in my life and I believe it's setting me up for the next phase of my life. It's quite amazing to interpret everything that's going and seeing it link to other situations and people.
It is pretty amazing.
When I got injured in the military it sucked a lot. I missed being with my unit most of all the guy I'm in love with who was with me there. Wanted to be able to watch out for him over there along with the other guys I served with but mostly him.
I didn't want to come home at all, and felt a bit useless because I was dealing with some serious PTSD, and the impact of the IED that had gone off caused me to forget a lot of things.
Not only am I thankful the blast didn't maim or kill me. Me being sent home also allowed me to spend time with my father before he passed away. It was great too. A lot of the time I spent with him helped me remember things I couldn't. It also made this whole PTSD thing just a bit better remembering some of the things he taught me.
So yea I do believe in coincidences, or chance and they can be fun or annoying lol. But I do think certain things happen for a reason sometimes you just don't realize it until later on.
It is amazing that you were able to gain positivity from a negative situation. I would like to ask if you are still with this guy that you served with?
I have seen some pretty horrific things happen to people and I struggle to think what they can take out of it that could be positive.
The other day I attempted to 'reverse engineer' my life and career by positing that if I did not do X when I met Y I would not have gotten to point B, etc. And all of this culminate to the point of who I am today and where I am. And it is a way of grooming me for whatever I still need to achieve in this lifetime.
You'll have to excuse me. I tend to be extremely self-analitycal. My friends tell me to switch my brain off and drink beer and screw instead. lol.
But I truly believe that if you are still alive it's because a Higher Being still needs you for something important.
Yea I'm still with him, its been 7 or 8 years we've been together. He'll be coming home from Afghanistan in January. I definitely pray for him everyday and night too.
I do all of that too sometimes, and my buddies tell me to relax as well lol.
I don't know if I was meant to do anything really important. However I'm happy knowing I'm very important to the people who love me, and come to me to talk.
Perhaps what happened to you was done in order to get you to have those precious moments with your father. I can't say for certain. I don't know you or your life at all. It's pretty drastic though. But sometimes drastic is what is needed.
What you did with your father sounds pretty important. And what you must mean to your partner sounds very important as well. A Higher Being needs you to be important to your partner. This is a blessing in itself;)
I do not believe that any of our lives our random here. God has a purpose for all of our lives here.
Jeremiah 1:5-10
The words of Jeremiah, son of Hilkiah, of a priestly family in Anathoth, 1 in the land of Benjamin. 2 The word of the LORD first came to him in the days of Josiah, son of Amon, king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign, 3 2 and continued through the reign of Jehoiakim, son of Josiah, king of Judah, and until the downfall and exile of Jerusalem in the fifth month of the eleventh year of Zedekiah, son of Josiah, king of Judah. 4 The word of the LORD came to me thus: 5 3 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you. 6 4 "Ah, Lord GOD!" I said, "I know not how to speak; I am too young." 7 But the LORD answered me, Say not, "I am too young." To whomever I send you, you shall go; whatever I command you, you shall speak. 8 Have no fear before them, because I am with you to deliver you, says the LORD. 9 Then the LORD extended his hand and touched my mouth, saying, See, I place my words in your mouth! 10 This day I set you over nations and over kingdoms, To root up and to tear down, to destroy and to demolish, to build and to plant. 11 5 The word of the LORD came to me with the question: What do you see, Jeremiah? "I see a branch of the watching-tree," I replied. 12 Then the LORD said to me: Well have you seen, for I am watching to fulfill my word. 13 6 A second time the word of the LORD came to me with the question: What do you see? "I see a boiling cauldron," I replied, "that appears from the north." 14 And from the north, said the LORD to me, evil will boil over upon all who dwell in the land. 15 Lo, I am summoning all the kingdoms of the north, says the LORD; Each king shall come and set up his throne at the gateways of Jerusalem, Opposite her walls all around and opposite all the cities of Judah. 16 I will pronounce my sentence against them for all their wickedness in forsaking me, And in burning incense to strange gods and adoring their own handiwork. 17 But do you gird your loins; stand up and tell them all that I command you. Be not crushed on their account, as though I would leave you crushed before them; 18 For it is I this day who have made you a fortified city, A pillar of iron, a wall of brass, against the whole land: Against Judah's kings and princes, against its priests and people. 19 They will fight against you, but not prevail over you, for I am with you to deliver you, says the LORD.
Lovely thoughts on higher powers, spirituality, lifes reasons and all that stuff ...
...but I think it's random... totally ridiculously random. I don't believe in "God", fate, higher power and I think dead is "dead".
But I don't think this vindicates us of the responsibility of being the best people we can possibly be. It just means... "life is tragically, fabulously *random*."
Sedative saidI think the more important question is, what do you believe in otherwise zim?
The same false correlation is used in fortune telling. Notice that they use the broadest and most ambiguous terms possible? Ladies and gentlemen, Sylvia Brown:
The woman who got rich by taking advantage of the gullibility of people.
And then there are the hippie psychics who tell you of your past lives, that you were Cleopatra in your past reincarnation. I mean, come on! She probably says that to everyone she 'mediums' for, because she knows no other historical figure other than Cleopatra and Jesus Christ. And then there's the erm.. postponed doomsday prophecies, the elaborate rituals said to bring about a certain event which fails miserably (so they'd have to sacrifice a virgin to appease the gods and do the ritual again), or the daily zodiac predictions which really only fits vaguely (if ever) about once every 2 years, etc.
Consider one thing. Everything eventually comes back to your own filter of perception. Gullibility often comes from an innate desire to want to believe. Regardless of the fact that there ARE legitimate studies on these, and they may contradict your own deductions.
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha
Note how common sense is also part of it. Not only your own beliefs. Objectivity in wanting to know the truth requires not only others to be honest to you, but you to be honest to yourself.
If you want to see signs, you will see signs... everywhere! I only hope that you'll realize how ridiculous it is when you start counting the number of blue cars passing by in the span of 5 minutes as indication of how many babies you will have someday, or when you click send on the hundredth make-a-wish-to-Momma-Mary-and-send-this-to-40-other-people-to-make-it-come-true chain emails.
I don't know..that really is a tough one to answer. I have had A LOT of good things happen to me in my life and I feel that it couldn't be just random occurrences. So when things turn out really well, I sometimes wonder if someone is looking out for me. But then, like most people, I start to look at what I don't have and how my life sucks compared to other people.....which brings me back to where I started..lol. I don't think anyone really knows for sure..all we can have is an opinion.
