Beverly Hills pet stores can only sell shelter animals

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    Aug 21, 2015 7:48 PM GMT
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/beverly-hills-passes-law-that-pet-stores-can-only-sell-shelter-animals

    Runs against my GOP grain to support this intrusion into private enterprise, but I almost like this idea.

    Thoughts?
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    Aug 21, 2015 8:12 PM GMT
    There are some problems that government is uniquely suited to fix. When something is good for an individual but bad for society then it takes either government or some other outside force (church, culture, etc) to regulate behavior. That may not fit rigid libertarian thinking but it's reality. If people would limit their own behavior and do what is right then we wouldn't need government to tell us what to do. But people are selfish and stupid so don't do what is right.
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    Aug 21, 2015 8:19 PM GMT
    Most of the wealthy in BH do not buy their dogs/cats from pet stores.
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    Aug 22, 2015 2:55 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree saidhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/beverly-hills-passes-law-that-pet-stores-can-only-sell-shelter-animals

    Runs against my GOP grain to support this intrusion into private enterprise, but I almost like this idea.

    Thoughts?
    And people wonder why I've strayed from either political "wingtip." icon_wink.gif
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    Aug 22, 2015 6:05 AM GMT
    Ugh! How ridiculous. Rules like this can be easily circumvented by shopping elsewhere. What's next? You can only sell second hand designer clothes? Used luxury cars? Can only buy jewelry from pawn shops?
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    Aug 23, 2015 11:21 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidUgh! How ridiculous. Rules like this can be easily circumvented by shopping elsewhere. What's next? You can only sell second hand designer clothes? Used luxury cars? Can only buy jewelry from pawn shops?

    All those things you listed are not alive with a beating heart.
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    Aug 23, 2015 11:23 PM GMT
    socal56 said
    UndercoverMan saidUgh! How ridiculous. Rules like this can be easily circumvented by shopping elsewhere. What's next? You can only sell second hand designer clothes? Used luxury cars? Can only buy jewelry from pawn shops?

    All those things you listed are not alive with a beating heart.
    I remember reading recently about a movement that was intending to stop new car production for a year.
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    Aug 24, 2015 12:16 AM GMT
    "...and shipping is very safe!"

    ..."Some breeders purposely induce stunted growth through malnutrition and even starvation in some cases"...
    h-DOG-HANDBAG-640x640.jpg
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_dog#Teacup_dogs
    The "teacup" dog is not recognized by any major or reputable dog registries, thus it cannot be compared to a toy dog. The standard size for a toy dog ranges from 4 to 7 pounds; anything smaller than the standard size of a toy dog may be a runt of a litter. There is no official size that constitute a teacup dog, but unofficially a teacup dog is considered to be a dog that is 17 inches or less and weighs 4 lbs or less at the age of 12 months. There are no specific teacup dog breeds, but popular breeds for creating teacup dogs are: Shih Tzu, Chihuahua, Yorkshire Terrier, Poodle, Pug, Maltese, Pomeranian, Silky Terrier, among others.
    lady-with-poodle-in-purse.jpg
    Most recognized breeders do not breed anything smaller than 4 pounds and, therefore, most do not breed "teacups" dogs. "Teacup" dogs breed down and have a lifespan of 12–14 years.[citation needed]
    tumblr_lw4fdm42po1r1ocdd.jpg
    Because teacup dogs are bred to be unnaturally miniature sized, they are prone to many serious health issues. Teacup dogs often suffer from hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), which can cause seizures and even death if not carefully monitored. Teacup dogs often need to be fed several times a day or more to avoid low blood sugar. They also commonly suffer from liver shunts, hydrocephalus (water on the brain), heart problems, and respiratory problems.[11] Teacup puppies also tend to have incontinence issues due to their extremely small bladder sizes.[12] This is especially prevalent when genetic health testing and other health testing required by breed clubs is not performed.
    woman_looking_at_dog_in_handbag_is456-06
    Teacup dogs are particular en vogue,[when?] and because of this breeders can charge extremely high prices for coveted teacup dogs. Some breeders utilize breeding methods harmful to the health of the dogs involved. Teacup dogs are bred by mating two already unusually small dogs of the same breed. Since the mother dog is already so small, there are often birthing complication which threaten the mother and puppies. Some breeders purposely induce stunted growth through malnutrition and even starvation in some cases.
    Dog_in_a_bag_ANE98_3373668b.jpg
    Since the teacup dog is not an official or regulated breed category, it's very easy for breeders to mislead uninformed buyers. Breeders can easily market a regular dog as a teacup dog simply by lying about the puppy's age. Teacup dogs are also often runts of a litter, which means that while they may be unusually small puppies, there is no guarantee they will not grow to become regular-sized dogs common to their breed

    teacup%20with%20money%20cropped.jpg

    img_6129-1.jpg
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    Aug 25, 2015 2:11 PM GMT
    socal56 said
    UndercoverMan saidUgh! How ridiculous. Rules like this can be easily circumvented by shopping elsewhere. What's next? You can only sell second hand designer clothes? Used luxury cars? Can only buy jewelry from pawn shops?

    All those things you listed are not alive with a beating heart.


    Well, I could argue that the goods I listed are manufactured or mined by people with beating hearts who are usually exploited. So, if you want a new luxury item you need to go somewhere else because we won't support the exploitation of human beating hearts.
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    Aug 25, 2015 3:26 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree saidhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/beverly-hills-passes-law-that-pet-stores-can-only-sell-shelter-animals

    Runs against my GOP grain to support this intrusion into private enterprise, but I almost like this idea.

    Thoughts?

    i don't like this government intrusion. I'm not even sure this can be real and legal. And yes, I'm speaking with my Liberal heart. Government should protect, help & assist, and mediate disputes among the citizens according to their Constitutional rights, guarding those rights against usurpation even from the government itself, but not dictate individual choices to this degree for what appears here to be ideological reasons.

    The better solution would be to require pet stores to carry a few rescue animals, along with their others, and price them accordingly. And to help promote sales directly from the shelters themselves. Perhaps by covering the cost of taking the animal.

    Many shelter animals are said to be "free" but in fact you may be billed for all the shots that were given, medical care, any neutering, and miscellaneous overhead costs. If the city bore those expenses and made the shelter animals truly free of charge then maybe more would be adopted.
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    Aug 25, 2015 4:08 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidUgh! How ridiculous. Rules like this can be easily circumvented by shopping elsewhere. What's next? You can only sell second hand designer clothes? Used luxury cars? Can only buy jewelry from pawn shops?



    NEWSFLASH: Animals are not clothing or cars. They suffer horribly from overpopulation and neglect. Try volunteering at our local SPCA and your eyes will be forever opened.
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    Aug 25, 2015 4:50 PM GMT
    Radd said
    UndercoverMan saidUgh! How ridiculous. Rules like this can be easily circumvented by shopping elsewhere. What's next? You can only sell second hand designer clothes? Used luxury cars? Can only buy jewelry from pawn shops?



    NEWSFLASH: Animals are not clothing or cars. They suffer horribly from overpopulation and neglect. Try volunteering at our local SPCA and your eyes will be forever opened.


    NEWSFLASH: My two dogs are rescues so no need to lecture me about the neglect animals suffer from neglect. However, if someone wants to buy a pedigree dog from a reputable breeder all the government intervention isn't going to stop it. Why should they feel guilty or obligated to clean up other irresponsible dog owner's mess?
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    Aug 25, 2015 8:57 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said
    Radd said
    UndercoverMan saidUgh! How ridiculous. Rules like this can be easily circumvented by shopping elsewhere. What's next? You can only sell second hand designer clothes? Used luxury cars? Can only buy jewelry from pawn shops?



    NEWSFLASH: Animals are not clothing or cars. They suffer horribly from overpopulation and neglect. Try volunteering at our local SPCA and your eyes will be forever opened.


    NEWSFLASH: My two dogs are rescues so no need to lecture me about the neglect animals suffer from neglect. However, if someone wants to buy a pedigree dog from a reputable breeder all the government intervention isn't going to stop it. Why should they feel guilty or obligated to clean up other irresponsible dog owner's mess?



    There is no such thing as a "responsible" breeder. Not when millions of dogs and cats are having to be euthanized because of overpopulation. And you should feel guilty because of compassion for the animals. It doesn't matter how they got there. The point is they're being killed at alarming rates and if you're not a part of the solution you're the problem.
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    Aug 26, 2015 5:06 AM GMT
    Well, there's no further discussion necessary if you're going to make ridiculous claims like "there's no such thing as a responsible breeder" and "if you aren't part of the solution you're the problem."
  • bobbobbob

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    Aug 28, 2015 11:52 AM GMT


    bon_pan saidMost of the wealthy in BH do not buy their dogs/cats from pet stores.


    That's exactly what I was going to say when I read this. I breed Savannah cats and have never sold one to pet shops and always have had a waiting list of people for every litter.

    [quote][cite]Radd[/cite]There is no such thing as a "responsible" breeder. Not when millions of dogs and cats are having to be euthanized because of overpopulation. And you should feel guilty because of compassion for the animals. It doesn't matter how they got there. The point is they're being killed at alarming rates and if you're not a part of the solution you're the problem./quote]

    You are 100% wrong in everything you said.

    As a cat breeder I assure everyone there's a way higher percentage of responsible pet breeders than pet owners. I don't know any breeder who deals with pet shops. We're not the ones responsible for unrestricted animal breeding and the fact that they outnumber the demand for them. That's a totally different issue from the controlled breeding practices of most responsible pet breeders who usually retire queens as soon as after 4 litters in five years, spay them then find responsible owners who are always thrilled to shuck out bucks for a well adjusted mellow adult cat. Also I guarantee you my cats have more fun from their constantly changing environment than most average pet owners provide.

    And I'm not the exception. Everything I do for my cats has been learned from other breeders. Amongst us there's a friendly competitiveness to outdo each other in providing entertainment for our cats who are never kept in cages or deprived of attention when they seek it. From the time they are old enough to see and walk they are socialized with dogs, children and new people.

    As for the "part of the solution/part of the problem" rationale... it's nothing but a simplistic attempt at shaming the wrong people who don't share the commenter's opinion.


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    Aug 28, 2015 12:11 PM GMT
    When will US States stop worrying about passing rediculous by-laws and concentrate on crime and gun control. This is similar to the Law passed in Florida banning all vagrants from looking for shelter or begging in the City. Must Pet Store owners now go look for a shaggy, scrawny dog that has been abandoned? Then feed it and groom it so it is fit to be placed as 'For Sale'. When they can get properly bred dogs, who are dewormed and taken care of by Breeders. All this makes no sense to me.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Aug 28, 2015 12:26 PM GMT
    Domino_dancer saidWhen will US States stop worrying about passing rediculous by-laws and concentrate on crime and gun control. This is similar to the Law passed in Florida banning all vagrants from looking for shelter or begging in the City. Must Pet Store owners now go look for a shaggy, scrawny dog that has been abandoned? Then feed it and groom it so it is fit to be placed as 'For Sale'. When they can get properly bred dogs, who are dewormed and taken care of by Breeders. All this makes no sense to me.


    My brothers and I own a home in Beverly Hills, as do our parents. You make the laws in your town, we'll make them in ours. Deal?
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    Aug 28, 2015 2:46 PM GMT
    Domino_dancer saidWhen will US States stop worrying about passing rediculous by-laws and concentrate on crime and gun control. This is similar to the Law passed in Florida banning all vagrants from looking for shelter or begging in the City. Must Pet Store owners now go look for a shaggy, scrawny dog that has been abandoned? Then feed it and groom it so it is fit to be placed as 'For Sale'. When they can get properly bred dogs, who are dewormed and taken care of by Breeders. All this makes no sense to me.



    425e62b0224f88f3b911ed3f39c6c740.jpg

    You're either really stupid or really uncaring. Breeders care nothing about animal welfare. They do it for one thing.......MONEY. If they cared about animals they would stop breeding more dogs when we must euthanize millions of dogs each year due to overpopulation and neglect. And the fact that you refer to homeless dogs as "shaggy and scrawny" makes it very clear you think of dogs as nothing more than an esthetic accessory. They are "scrawny" and "shaggy" because they've been neglected and need love and a caring guardian.
  • bobbobbob

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    Aug 28, 2015 5:26 PM GMT
    Dividing up your comment for easy commenting.

    Radd said
    You're either really stupid or really uncaring. Breeders care nothing about animal welfare. They do it for one thing.......MONEY.


    I'm not sure where you get the idea breeders are uncaring about animal welfare and only interested in money. It sure reflects your lack of understanding and insight into all the things other than money that motivate people. I've got 5 queens and one tom and have never had more than 16 kittens in any of the past 12 years. If, as you boldly asserted, I was in it just for money I'd have ten times that many.

    Any cat I sell goes with an understanding that if the new owners discover they cannot provide for a Savannah's needs I will buy it back at what they paid for it. Try buying a car or furniture or even a pet from a shelter with that deal. Also I don't let any cat leave until it's three months old and comfortable wearing a harness and leash. I'm not the only breeder who is more particular about the home the cat will go to than the money someone is willing to pay for it. The cats are family to me. Twice I've let families with perfect home environments take a full year to pay. More times than I can remember I've gone down off the going rate for F1 hybrids for ideal home situations and know many breeders who do the same. My primary motivation is breeding and nurturing healthy beautiful gentle giant sized cats who adore people and specifically small children. My big thrill is getting calls and emails from people about their Savannahs and how happy they are with their cat. Regardless of the money, I'd never sell a Savannah to a single person in an apartment who'd be leaving the cat alone half of each day or even a sedate elderly couple wanting an oversized lap cat. Savannahs live to play and interact with people and other animals. Left alone for long boring stretches they will amuse themselves by becoming destructive. Just this past Wednesday and Thursday my granddaughter brought their 2 month old baby over and spent the day with me. All six cats were mesmerized with the baby, staring at her sleeping as if they were waiting for her to grow up and play with them. Also I stress to new owners that having their Savannahs neutered will make them and the cat happier in the long run and most take that advice by the times their cat is ready to come into heat. Those who don't learn a lesson the first time they come into heat. An unneutered male can and will spray six feet up a wall marking territory rather than using a litter box.


    Radd said If they cared about animals they would stop breeding more dogs when we must euthanize millions of dogs each year due to overpopulation and neglect.


    Here you are making the same mistake you made in one of your previous comments quoted here. It's the same flawed logic people make when blaming legally licensed gun owners for the 96% of crimes committed with illegally possessed firearms.


    Radd saidThere is no such thing as a "responsible" breeder. Not when millions of dogs and cats are having to be euthanized because of overpopulation. And you should feel guilty because of compassion for the animals. It doesn't matter how they got there. The point is they're being killed at alarming rates and if you're not a part of the solution you're the problem.


    You're confusing two issues that have almost no relationship with each other besides they involve the offspring of cats and dogs. The truth is that if all pet owners were as conscientious about letting their animals procreate as the people you accuse of exploiting animals solely for profit there would be a shortage of cats and dogs at shelters to be put to sleep. The offspring from pet breeders is not even one twentieth of the number inadvertently produced irresponsible pet owners. How can you blame the few for the problems caused by the majority? YES, IT DOES MATTER HOW THEY GOT THERE. It matters in an enormous way.

    Radd said And the fact that you refer to homeless dogs as "shaggy and scrawny" makes it very clear you think of dogs as nothing more than an esthetic accessory. They are "scrawny" and "shaggy" because they've been neglected and need love and a caring guardian.


    ^^^^I agree with you on this.

    On another note, here's something to illustrate this issue is not as cut and dry as you try to make it seem.

    My yard backs up that of a family of four with five dogs who are never let inside or, as far as I know, ever been walked on leashes. They are communally fed after dark each night in an upside down plastic trash can lid. The kids never come in the back yard. I interact with the dogs more than they do. One of them tries to shake hands through the fence. All of them line up for head pets and contact any time they hear me outside.

    After the dad cuts his yard with the riding mower and runs the wheels over 10 to 14 days of dog shit I have to smell it in my back yard because he parks the mower at the fence. Imagine my surprise to find out the wife is on the board of directors for our local humane shelter and brags about having adopted five from it. All they've done is condemn the dogs to a grass carpeted prison where they're fed once a day and forgotten about.






  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Aug 28, 2015 5:32 PM GMT
    Dividing up your comment for easy commenting.
    This is a big issue with me and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but informative on something I know about from first hand daily experience for twelve years.


    Radd said
    You're either really stupid or really uncaring. Breeders care nothing about animal welfare. They do it for one thing.......MONEY.


    I'm not sure where you get the idea breeders are uncaring about animal welfare and only interested in money. It sure reflects your lack of understanding and insight into all the things other than money that motivate people. I've got 5 queens and one tom and have never had more than 16 kittens in any of the past 12 years. If, as you boldly asserted, I was in it just for money I'd have ten times that many.

    Any cat I sell goes with an understanding that if the new owners discover they cannot provide for a Savannah's needs I will buy it back at what they paid for it. Try buying a car or furniture or even a pet from a shelter with that deal. Also I don't let any cat leave until it's three months old and comfortable wearing a harness and leash. I'm not the only breeder who is more particular about the home the cat will go to than the money someone is willing to pay for it. The cats are family to me. Twice I've let families with perfect home environments take a full year to pay. More times than I can remember I've gone down off the going rate for F1 hybrids for ideal home situations and know many breeders who do the same. My primary motivation is breeding and nurturing healthy beautiful gentle giant sized cats who adore people and specifically small children. My big thrill is getting calls and emails from people about their Savannahs and how happy they are with their cat. Regardless of the money, I'd never sell a Savannah to a single person in an apartment who'd be leaving the cat alone half of each day or even a sedate elderly couple wanting an oversized lap cat. Savannahs live to play and interact with people and other animals. Left alone for long boring stretches they will amuse themselves by becoming destructive. Just this past Wednesday and Thursday my granddaughter brought their 2 month old baby over and spent the day with me. All six cats were mesmerized with the baby, staring at her sleeping as if they were waiting for her to grow up and play with them. Also I stress to new owners that having their Savannahs neutered will make them and the cat happier in the long run and most take that advice by the times their cat is ready to come into heat. Those who don't learn a lesson the first time they come into heat. An unneutered male can and will spray six feet up a wall marking territory rather than using a litter box.


    Radd said If they cared about animals they would stop breeding more dogs when we must euthanize millions of dogs each year due to overpopulation and neglect.


    Here you are making the same mistake you made in one of your previous comments quoted here. It's the same flawed logic people make when blaming legally licensed gun owners for the 96% of crimes committed with illegally possessed firearms.


    Radd saidThere is no such thing as a "responsible" breeder. Not when millions of dogs and cats are having to be euthanized because of overpopulation. And you should feel guilty because of compassion for the animals. It doesn't matter how they got there. The point is they're being killed at alarming rates and if you're not a part of the solution you're the problem.


    You're confusing two issues that have almost no relationship with each other besides they involve the offspring of cats and dogs. The truth is that if all pet owners were as conscientious about letting their animals procreate as the people you accuse of exploiting animals solely for profit there would be a shortage of cats and dogs at shelters to be put to sleep. The offspring from pet breeders is not even one twentieth of the number inadvertently produced irresponsible pet owners. How can you blame the few for the problems caused by the majority? YES, IT DOES MATTER HOW THEY GOT THERE. It matters in an enormous way.

    Radd said And the fact that you refer to homeless dogs as "shaggy and scrawny" makes it very clear you think of dogs as nothing more than an esthetic accessory. They are "scrawny" and "shaggy" because they've been neglected and need love and a caring guardian.


    ^^^^I agree with you on this.

    On another note, here's something to illustrate this issue is not as cut and dry as you try to make it seem.

    My yard backs up that of a family of four with five dogs who are never let inside or, as far as I know, ever been walked on leashes. They are communally fed after dark each night in an upside down plastic trash can lid. The kids never come in the back yard. I interact with the dogs more than they do. One of them tries to shake hands through the fence. All of them line up for head pets and contact any time they hear me outside.

    After the dad cuts his yard with the riding mower and runs the wheels over 10 to 14 days of dog shit I have to smell it in my back yard because he parks the mower at the fence. Imagine my surprise to find out the wife is on the board of directors for our local humane shelter and brags about having adopted five from it. All they've done is condemn the dogs to a grass carpeted prison where they're fed once a day and forgotten about.






  • metta

    Posts: 39169

    Aug 28, 2015 5:35 PM GMT
    I thought that it was a State wide thing. I can't remember the last time I saw dogs for sale in a pet store. I see adoptions but not dogs for sale.

    Repairing the OP link. It was not working for me:
    Beverly Hills Mandates That Pet Stores Can Only Sell Shelter Animals
    Yes, that Beverly Hills.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/beverly-hills-passes-law-that-pet-stores-can-only-sell-shelter-animals_55d74a4ee4b04ae49702f514
  • metta

    Posts: 39169

    Aug 28, 2015 5:37 PM GMT
    Jurisdictions with retail pet sale bans


    http://bestfriends.org/Resources/Jurisdictions-With-Retail-Pet-Sale-Bans/

    So it is a city by city thing...I have no idea where I would have to go to be able to buy one. But then again, I don't want to buy one.