I dare you to ride this bike.

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    Sep 09, 2015 7:32 AM GMT
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    Sep 09, 2015 5:48 PM GMT
    Excellent example of plasticity at work. Especially that you placed this cycling and not mental health.
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    Sep 10, 2015 12:43 AM GMT
    theantijock saidExcellent example of plasticity at work. Especially that you placed this cycling and not mental health.
    I actually considered posting it in mental health, but it's an analogy that many people wouldn't get so I stuck it here instead.
  • FRE0

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    Sep 10, 2015 2:16 AM GMT
    Most people do not consciously know how to steer a two-wheel vehicle. They counter steer. Thus, to turn right, you turn the handle bar to the left to cause the bicycle or motorcycle to lean to the right thereby causing it to turn to the right, and vice versa. The brain figures it out even if you don't realize what you are doing. The Wright Brothers figured that out over 100 years ago.

    If you do not believe this, ride a bicycle at night with the headlight aimed at the street. Then you will see how you are actually steering. It also explains why, if you are too close to a curb or wall, it is difficult to turn away from it. You can steer a bicycle or motorcycle without touching the handle bars, but not very effectively.

    An ice skater also counter steers. If you are gliding on one skate, you have to turn the skate in the opposite direction you want to go to cause your body to lean into the turn.

    Actually the guy could have stayed upright if he had been able to get up to speed quickly because above a certain speed a bicycle will balance itself.
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    Sep 10, 2015 7:18 AM GMT
    Interesting video, thanks for posting. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 10, 2015 4:48 PM GMT
    paulflexes said
    theantijock saidExcellent example of plasticity at work. Especially that you placed this cycling and not mental health.
    I actually considered posting it in mental health, but it's an analogy that many people wouldn't get so I stuck it here instead.


    Not a problem, I could argue equally well whether where placement showed more plasticity.
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    Sep 10, 2015 5:10 PM GMT
    FRE0 saidMost people do not consciously know how to steer a two-wheel vehicle. They counter steer. Thus, to turn right, you turn the handle bar to the left to cause the bicycle or motorcycle to lean to the right thereby causing it to turn to the right, and vice versa. The brain figures it out even if you don't realize what you are doing. The Wright Brothers figured that out over 100 years ago.

    If you do not believe this, ride a bicycle at night with the headlight aimed at the street. Then you will see how you are actually steering. It also explains why, if you are too close to a curb or wall, it is difficult to turn away from it. You can steer a bicycle or motorcycle without touching the handle bars, but not very effectively.

    An ice skater also counter steers. If you are gliding on one skate, you have to turn the skate in the opposite direction you want to go to cause your body to lean into the turn.

    Actually the guy could have stayed upright if he had been able to get up to speed quickly because above a certain speed a bicycle will balance itself.


    Interesting. And sometimes I do play with that by wobbling left right for grins as I ride but I never gave the motion more thought than that, and I did used to love skating before I fucked up my back in a bad accident. I was pretty good at ice hockey as a kid. So it's been a while but I can imagine myself doing that quick lean to make that turn.

    I don't think I'd describe it as turning right to turn left, maybe there's other vocabulary? I'm not sure how to say it better but it sure sounds weird as is.

    What you're talking about seems this...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

    ...getting the initial momentum into the turn but then of course you do turn into that direction so as to not fall over.

    As to that the guy could have stayed upright given enough speed, would he then have fallen encountering an obstacle at speed: which might be an interesting but more dangerous aspect to that experiment, how does plasticity function given momentum?
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    Sep 10, 2015 11:19 PM GMT
    Wow Thankyou for sharing this video It's kind of amazing haha. Understanding the process he went through had me smiling like a nerd it's so interesting. I love the fascination this guy has of learning and discovering it becomes contagious.

    The mind is a powerful thing and if you learn to control and understand it. You can change plenty of things within and around you. Especially altering the bad habits/mentality/resilience/spirituality/ etc (which is nothing new ofcourse).

    Aside from having to steer the opposite direction you'd also have to train your body to lean in correspondence to the new direction of steering which is another tricky thing haha. icon_eek.gif

    Makes me wanna try it.
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    Sep 10, 2015 11:20 PM GMT
    robbaker saidi dare you to ride a cockicon_mad.gif


    BAHAHAHAHA wtf!
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    Sep 11, 2015 1:32 AM GMT
    Ooo that looks fun! They should add that to the Olympics... would make for a nice comic relief!
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    Sep 11, 2015 9:14 PM GMT
    very cool.
    Ever drive an automatic after years of driving a standard; break and or shift with your left foot?
  • FRE0

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    Sep 12, 2015 5:59 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    FRE0 saidMost people do not consciously know how to steer a two-wheel vehicle. They counter steer. Thus, to turn right, you turn the handle bar to the left to cause the bicycle or motorcycle to lean to the right thereby causing it to turn to the right, and vice versa. The brain figures it out even if you don't realize what you are doing. The Wright Brothers figured that out over 100 years ago.

    If you do not believe this, ride a bicycle at night with the headlight aimed at the street. Then you will see how you are actually steering. It also explains why, if you are too close to a curb or wall, it is difficult to turn away from it. You can steer a bicycle or motorcycle without touching the handle bars, but not very effectively.

    An ice skater also counter steers. If you are gliding on one skate, you have to turn the skate in the opposite direction you want to go to cause your body to lean into the turn.

    Actually the guy could have stayed upright if he had been able to get up to speed quickly because above a certain speed a bicycle will balance itself.


    Interesting. And sometimes I do play with that by wobbling left right for grins as I ride but I never gave the motion more thought than that, and I did used to love skating before I fucked up my back in a bad accident. I was pretty good at ice hockey as a kid. So it's been a while but I can imagine myself doing that quick lean to make that turn.

    I don't think I'd describe it as turning right to turn left, maybe there's other vocabulary? I'm not sure how to say it better but it sure sounds weird as is.

    What you're talking about seems this...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

    ...getting the initial momentum into the turn but then of course you do turn into that direction so as to not fall over.

    As to that the guy could have stayed upright given enough speed, would he then have fallen encountering an obstacle at speed: which might be an interesting but more dangerous aspect to that experiment, how does plasticity function given momentum?


    The Wiki article provides a good explanation.

    When I learned to ride a motorcycle, the class instructor kept saying, "To turn right push on the right grip; to turn left push on the left grip.". I found it very confusing even though I fully understood counter steering before taking the class, but had never thought in terms of pushing on grips. Rather, I through in terms of turning the handle bars but since I'd been riding a bicycle for just about my entire life there was no need for me to think about it. The MSF approach seemed about as reasonable as telling a student driver to lift up on the left side of the steering wheel instead of saying to turn the wheel to the right.
  • FRE0

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    Sep 12, 2015 6:03 AM GMT
    Jakeandbake said Wow Thankyou for sharing this video It's kind of amazing haha. Understanding the process he went through had me smiling like a nerd it's so interesting. I love the fascination this guy has of learning and discovering it becomes contagious.

    The mind is a powerful thing and if you learn to control and understand it. You can change plenty of things within and around you. Especially altering the bad habits/mentality/resilience/spirituality/ etc (which is nothing new ofcourse).

    Aside from having to steer the opposite direction you'd also have to train your body to lean in correspondence to the new direction of steering which is another tricky thing haha. icon_eek.gif

    Makes me wanna try it.


    Actually, you don't have to lean your body into the turn; you can keep it in the same position relative to the bike and the bike will still lean as you counter steer. However, if you do lean your body into the turn then the bike doesn't have to lean as far; that may provide better tire traction if you are turning so fast that it is an issue.
  • FRE0

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    Sep 12, 2015 6:05 AM GMT
    dustin_K_tx saidvery cool.
    Ever drive an automatic after years of driving a standard; break and or shift with your left foot?


    I have and except for the first time I ever drove with an automatic it was not a problem.
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    Sep 13, 2015 5:37 AM GMT
    JeanDeau saidOoo that looks fun! They should add that to the Olympics... would make for a nice comic relief!




    dustin_K_tx saidvery cool.
    Ever drive an automatic after years of driving a standard; break and or shift with your left foot?

    The ol'man always used to ride the brake. So annoying to wind up the car behind him. This could very well be why he never broke the habit of driving with two feet.

    FRE0 saidThe Wiki article provides a good explanation.

    When I learned to ride a motorcycle, the class instructor kept saying, "To turn right push on the right grip; to turn left push on the left grip.". I found it very confusing even though I fully understood counter steering before taking the class, but had never thought in terms of pushing on grips. Rather, I through in terms of turning the handle bars but since I'd been riding a bicycle for just about my entire life there was no need for me to think about it. The MSF approach seemed about as reasonable as telling a student driver to lift up on the left side of the steering wheel instead of saying to turn the wheel to the right.

    While it can be useful, I knew habit can also be bad for various reasons but in thinking about what you mentioned by it, I wonder if being mindful, a Buddhist practice, might not work merely as meditation but by becoming conscious of habit maybe that adds to plasticity which normally I'd think of as learning new things or learning new ways of doing things but then why not of becoming more aware of doing what we do otherwise by habit.

    That doing by habit might make for more rigidity but being aware of habit might allow for more neurons to connect, even while the task remains the same.

    I'd imagine that could be studied, doing the same task, once by rote and once by will, and then measure dendrite growth. Can they do that without an autopsy? Otherwise it might be tough to get volunteers.
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    Sep 13, 2015 8:12 PM GMT
    FRE0 saidMost people do not consciously know how to steer a two-wheel vehicle. They counter steer. Thus, to turn right, you turn the handle bar to the left to cause the bicycle or motorcycle to lean to the right thereby causing it to turn to the right, and vice versa. The brain figures it out even if you don't realize what you are doing.

    Yes, "counter-steering" is well known to motorcyclists, especially road bikers. The principle is taught in the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) courses, as the Wiki article cited here notes.

    I'm still not really conscious of doing this. I basically just think "right" or "left" and that's the way the motorcycle goes, without knowingly sending mental push or pull commands to my hands & arms.

    I do feel myself leaning, though, it's kinda like I'm steering the bike through the saddle with my butt. Which I always thought used to keep my ass pretty firm, back when I rode 10,000+ miles a year.

    I'd like to try this experiment with his modified bike.
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    Sep 14, 2015 5:17 AM GMT
    dustin_K_tx saidvery cool.
    Ever drive an automatic after years of driving a standard; break and or shift with your left foot?
    I've had almost 30 vehicles in my life (crashed a lot as a teen and early 20's - learned a lot too). Out of all those vehicles, only my last four (including my current car) were automatics. To this day I can hop in any stick shift and be road-worthy in just a few seconds...just gotta learn the length of the clutch vs the power of the engine.

    However, I've never tried using my left foot for breaking...at least not in traffic (practice some, but never mastered it). "Two-footers" [in automatics] are traffic's most dangerous type of drivers. They're easy to spot, cause their brake lights will be on long after they've slowly, very slowly, accelerated through the green light (and the cyclist is already two blocks ahead).
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    Sep 14, 2015 5:19 AM GMT
    ^ Oh, and you can also spot most two-footers by their dented rear bumpers cause they always get rear-ended. icon_lol.gif
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    Sep 14, 2015 6:10 AM GMT
    dustin_K_tx saidEver drive an automatic after years of driving a standard...?

    Yes. And I've also owned both automatic and manual shift vehicles at the same time. Plus motorcycles, which are always manuals you clutch with your left hand and shift with your foot (except for a few rare exceptions, plus most scooters). Switching between them never presented me with a problem.
  • FRE0

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    Sep 24, 2015 9:25 PM GMT
    paulflexes said
    dustin_K_tx saidvery cool.
    Ever drive an automatic after years of driving a standard; break and or shift with your left foot?
    I've had almost 30 vehicles in my life (crashed a lot as a teen and early 20's - learned a lot too). Out of all those vehicles, only my last four (including my current car) were automatics. To this day I can hop in any stick shift and be road-worthy in just a few seconds...just gotta learn the length of the clutch vs the power of the engine.

    However, I've never tried using my left foot for breaking...at least not in traffic (practice some, but never mastered it). "Two-footers" [in automatics] are traffic's most dangerous type of drivers. They're easy to spot, cause their brake lights will be on long after they've slowly, very slowly, accelerated through the green light (and the cyclist is already two blocks ahead).


    You are assuming that ALL people who use their left feet to brake always drag the brakes. I don't even though on the rare occasions I sometimes do use my left foot to brake if I am driving with a slush pump. However, I have seen what you are referring to, i.e., people who continually drag the brakes with their left feet. But do not assume that everyone who does not have the brake lights continually flashing is braking with the right foot.
  • FRE0

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    Sep 24, 2015 9:28 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    dustin_K_tx saidEver drive an automatic after years of driving a standard...?

    Yes. And I've also owned both automatic and manual shift vehicles at the same time. Plus motorcycles, which are always manuals you clutch with your left hand and shift with your foot (except for a few rare exceptions, plus most scooters). Switching between them never presented me with a problem.


    Switching between left and drive and right hand drive is much more difficult. It is the turn signal lever that causes the most problems because they are on the other side with right hand drive. And, when switching to right hand drive there is a tendency to hit the door with your hand when shifting gears.
  • FRE0

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    Sep 24, 2015 9:30 PM GMT
    paulflexes said^ Oh, and you can also spot most two-footers by their dented rear bumpers cause they always get rear-ended. icon_lol.gif


    You can spot people who follow too closely because they always rear-end the car in front.
  • FRE0

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    Sep 24, 2015 9:40 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    FRE0 saidMost people do not consciously know how to steer a two-wheel vehicle. They counter steer. Thus, to turn right, you turn the handle bar to the left to cause the bicycle or motorcycle to lean to the right thereby causing it to turn to the right, and vice versa. The brain figures it out even if you don't realize what you are doing.

    Yes, "counter-steering" is well known to motorcyclists, especially road bikers. The principle is taught in the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) courses, as the Wiki article cited here notes.

    I'm still not really conscious of doing this. I basically just think "right" or "left" and that's the way the motorcycle goes, without knowingly sending mental push or pull commands to my hands & arms.

    I do feel myself leaning, though, it's kinda like I'm steering the bike through the saddle with my butt. Which I always thought used to keep my ass pretty firm, back when I rode 10,000+ miles a year.

    I'd like to try this experiment with his modified bike.


    There really is no need to be conscious of counter steering. If one actually had to think about it one would react too slowly to be safe. Even a chimpanzee can learn to ride a bicycle and I doubt that he would know that he is counter steering.

    One way to verify counter steering on a bicycle is to ride at might and watch where the headlight beam hits the pavement. That makes it inescapably clear what is happening.
  • FRE0

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    Sep 24, 2015 9:46 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    dustin_K_tx saidEver drive an automatic after years of driving a standard...?

    Yes. And I've also owned both automatic and manual shift vehicles at the same time. Plus motorcycles, which are always manuals you clutch with your left hand and shift with your foot (except for a few rare exceptions, plus most scooters). Switching between them never presented me with a problem.


    Actually, you don't need to use the clutch except when starting out from a dead stop. Shifting a motorcycle (at least a sport bike with a close ratio transmission and light flywheel) is faster if you don't use the clutch. With a flick of the right wrist you quickly close and reopen the throttle while lifting the shift lever with your left toe. It is very quick and smooth. BMW and a few other motorcycle manufactures make that easy by having one button for upshifting and another button for downshifting. When you press the upshift button the power is interrupted for an instant and the transmission is shifted without declutching.
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    Sep 28, 2015 7:13 PM GMT
    Let's change the Heading just a little - 'I dare you to ride me!!!'