homophobic language out of context

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 14, 2015 5:10 PM GMT
    Last night on my cooldown walk after my run, I passed a corner bar that I always pass. There are always a few people outside since in our state you can't smoke inside a business.

    The NFL game was on, and I could hear the reactions to whatever was happening on the screen as I was rounding the corner. Clear above the din, a male voice rang out "I hope it's a broken ankle, you fuckin' cocksucker!"

    icon_neutral.gif

    I know that if I confronted this person, he would probably say he has no problem with gay people, and that was just what came out of his mouth. He would probably say he doesn't know or believe the player in question was gay. This is just programmed language for males in that environment, where implying a man is gay, and not just gay but gay and preferring the passive role, is the worst insult you can conjure up.

    That dichotomy both interests and saddens me. Public attitude towards gay people has improved immensely, but (straight... I am only assuming this person is straight) guys still resort to derogatory terms like this when the chips or down (in anger, such as the Jonah Hill incident which I actually wrote about last year; that story resonated with enough people that it was republished by two other web sites) or even "just kidding around" which of course is supposed to just make it okay and turn the tables that you're being an overly-sensitive SJW

    So what are your thoughts about this? Do you call your friends out when they say stuff like this? DO they say stuff like this? I love when someone says something then turns to me and apologizes immediately after, in that #sorrynotsorry way that convinces me they're only sorry they were caught.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 14, 2015 5:27 PM GMT
    The word "gay" has become the new N word, and the word "faggot" has become the new nigga, used as a term of endearment between friends.

    "Cocksucker" seems to have vanished from vocabulary in the crowds I hang with, but no surprise it's still used in smaller towns. And the reason cocksucker seems to have vanished is because guys finally realized that getting a blowjob is fun, and whoever is doing it should be praised instead of insulted.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Sep 14, 2015 5:51 PM GMT
    Can you imagine if a female athlete went down and guys started shouting, "I hope it's a broken ankle, you fucking cocksucker!"

    icon_eek.gif

    Being gay can seem like being caught between two worlds.
  • Oceans_of_Flo...

    Posts: 393

    Sep 14, 2015 11:03 PM GMT

    ....you weren't limping when you passed that bar from having run too much? .....icon_wink.gif

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 14, 2015 11:09 PM GMT
    Oceans_of_Flowers said
    ....you weren't limping when you passed that bar from having run too much? .....icon_wink.gif



    Lol no he was inside. And I stepped lively after that.
  • Oceans_of_Flo...

    Posts: 393

    Sep 14, 2015 11:36 PM GMT
    Well, since you took my obvious intimation that could have been taken either way as humorous and harmless (thank you) why care if he said "cock sucker" instead of "asshole" or even "son of a bitch"? Curse words are meant to be offensive and given the location, he deserves even more empathy - him being in a straight bar and all. A little more umbrage may have been taken at Side Winders in Palm Springs or JR's in Dallas and socially he would have been way out of order. As it stands, he's just an asshole with a big mouth.... a big soft velvety mouth.

    On a side note - I always thought the term "cock sucker" more offensive to women, since they do it, yet unlike us, often hate it (how, I don't know, maybe because they don't have one and have no idea the nirvana they are causing). Which is pretty ironic considering guys when they talk about it, seem to be far more sympathetic about a woman's oral needs. To hear straight men talk about cunalingus on a woman is really gross, they go into extreme detail. Its rare to hear a woman talk that way about something just as important to a man, but I'll stop before this reply turns into a Women are Horrible Selfish Sluts Rant.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 14, 2015 11:45 PM GMT
    Oceans_of_Flowers saidWell, since you took my obvious intimation that could have been taken either way as humorous and harmless (thank you) why care if he said "cock sucker" instead of "asshole" or even "son of a bitch"? Curse words are meant to be offensive and given the location, he deserves even more empathy - him being in a straight bar and all. A little more umbrage may have been taken at Side Winders in Palm Springs or JR's in Dallas and socially he would have been way out of order. As it stands, he's just an asshole with a big mouth.... a big soft velvety mouth.

    On a side note - I always thought the term "cock sucker" more offensive to women, since they do it, yet unlike us, often hate it (how, I don't know, maybe because they don't have one and have no idea the nirvana they are causing). Which is pretty ironic considering guys when they talk about it, seem to be far more sympathetic about a woman's oral needs. To hear straight men talk about cunalingus on a woman is really gross, they go into extreme detail. Its rare to hear a woman talk that way about something just as important to a man, but I'll stop before this reply turns into a Women are Horrible Selfish Sluts Rant.





    I wasn't horrified or even surprised. To your point, he may be an insecure dude trying to fit in. It just intrigues me that this is the go-to insult and maybe always will be... why are straight men even thinking about guys sucking cock?

  • Oceans_of_Flo...

    Posts: 393

    Sep 15, 2015 1:24 AM GMT
    To me, Its more of a declaration like "Hey, Cock Sucker", it's up to the cocksucker to take offense or not or the implied cock sucker. As much as I hate it when derogatory terms like "N**ger, bitch, and FAHG" are given "positive" power, and those insulted by the terms actually brandish the terms and find them applicable to themselves; perhaps in this case, you could give cock sucker power or at least recognize it as less offensive than the terms I listed. Cock sucker can be vague or at least more vague than if the big mouth in the bar had yelled out "FAHG". Calling me a cock sucker, implies I suck cock, not that you hate gays unlike calling out "FAHG!".
    Really - "COCK SUCKER" - it only applies especially to gays if you force the issue (see what I did there). icon_surprised.gif

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 1:36 AM GMT
    I honestly wouldn't think twice about that kind of language. As you said yourself, the guy probably has no problem with gay people at all. It's time we counted our blessings and remember that just a few short years ago, this man probably would have hated gay people.

    My best friend calls me "faggot" and "cocksucker" on a daily basis (and he's straight.) A female acquaintance overheard him calling me faggot one day and scolded him harshly for calling me that. His reply to her was "yeah but he's my favorite faggot in the whole world" and then hugged me tightly. I've never felt so loved! LOL.

    Seriously.....all that matters with words like this is INTENTION. That truly should be our only concern.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 2:29 AM GMT
    Oceans_of_Flowers saidTo me, Its more of a declaration like "Hey, Cock Sucker", it's up to the cocksucker to take offense or not or the implied cock sucker. As much as I hate it when derogatory terms like "N**ger, bitch, and FAHG" are given "positive" power, and those insulted by the terms actually brandish the terms and find them applicable to themselves; perhaps in this case, you could give cock sucker power or at least recognize it as less offensive than the terms I listed. Cock sucker can be vague or at least more vague than if the big mouth in the bar had yelled out "FAHG". Calling me a cock sucker, implies I suck cock, not that you hate gays unlike calling out "FAHG!".
    Really - "COCK SUCKER" - it only applies especially to gays if you force the issue (see what I did there). icon_surprised.gif


    Yes,but I see no reason why we have to accept it or that we should think think that "cocksucker" or "f@gg0t" are not offensive. There are good reasons why we shouldn't think it's not offensive. Because if we should, why stop there. What about the derogatory term for Jewish people. Should we accept it. or what about derogatory term for Asian. Should we later accept it too. Or god forbid if there ever was derogatory term for disabled people.
    I say this because I've seen a lot of people saying "you shouldn't the offense for that". Because the right one would be the guy apologizing "I shouldn't say that". As you said, cursing meant to be offensive. If someone find that not offensive, that's his prerogative. If someone find that offensive, he has a good reason for it.
    And I do think the term cocksucker implies that the person is gay. As in abnormal and disgusting.
    And yes, it's up to people, whether they find it offensive or not. And that doesn't mean that they should find it not offensive.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 2:38 AM GMT
    Radd saidMy best friend calls me "faggot" and "cocksucker" on a daily basis (and he's straight.) A female acquaintance overheard him calling me faggot one day and scolded him harshly for calling me that. His reply to her was "yeah but he's my favorite faggot in the whole world" and then hugged me tightly. I've never felt so loved! LOL.

    A gay friend and I used to call each other homo; whenever one of us did something foolish the other responded with "You homo!" But I guess that's an outdated derogatory term since you don't hear it much.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 2:55 AM GMT
    Foul language is so much a part of most people's everyday vocabulary I really don't give it much thought at all other than to think those who use it indiscriminately are crass and are challenged in the vocabulary department.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 3:00 AM GMT
    Ronar2 said
    Oceans_of_Flowers said

    ...Or god forbid if there ever was derogatory term for disabled people.


    Gimp and crip readily come to mind. Just in case you were looking for some.
  • Oceans_of_Flo...

    Posts: 393

    Sep 15, 2015 4:08 AM GMT
    Ronar2 said
    And I do think the term cocksucker implies that the person is gay. As in abnormal and disgusting.
    And yes, it's up to people, whether they find it offensive or not. And that doesn't mean that they should find it not offensive.


    I'll give it to you, FAHG implies all that because it is a word associated with gay hatred, but cocksucker just implies something you do as a gay man, something you enjoy. To take umbrage to it, would imply you think that cocksucking is abnormal and disgusting. Its as natural as running water to me. Now, this is my opinion, but to call someone a cocksucker is like a tease at them "you suck cocks, haha", but not an outright swipe at gays. Its a swipe at them because you just said they suck cocks...as a negative. Now calling someone a FAHG is different. You just called them gay ... as a negative. I agree with the OP, some hate speech is engrained into our culture and condoned. I'm just arguing that cock sucker isn't one of them. It refers to an act as a negative not "gay people" like FAHG, homo, dyke, or sissy. Especially in the case, the OP recalls, it was said in a vague way, in a house of dick and pussy, and directed at a straight athlete. I made it clear, in a different context, it would have been direct and pointedly insulting. As I understood the occurrence, It truly, to me, is as different as a wayward wind blowing open your neighbor's bath robe as opposed to your neighbor holding it open.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 4:59 AM GMT
    Oceans_of_Flowers said
    Ronar2 said
    And I do think the term cocksucker implies that the person is gay. As in abnormal and disgusting.
    And yes, it's up to people, whether they find it offensive or not. And that doesn't mean that they should find it not offensive.


    I'll give it to you, FAHG implies all that because it is a word associated with gay hatred, but cocksucker just implies something you do as a gay man, something you enjoy. To take umbrage to it, would imply you think that cocksucking is abnormal and disgusting. Its as natural as running water to me. Now, this is my opinion, but to call someone a cocksucker is like a tease at them "you suck cocks, haha", but not an outright swipe at gays. Its a swipe at them because you just said they suck cocks...as a negative. Now calling someone a FAHG is different. You just called them gay ... as a negative. I agree with the OP, some hate speech is engrained into our culture and condoned. I'm just arguing that cock sucker isn't one of them. It refers to an act as a negative not "gay people" like FAHG, homo, dyke, or sissy. Especially in the case, the OP recalls, it was said in a vague way, in a house of dick and pussy, and directed at a straight athlete. I made it clear, in a different context, it would have been direct and pointedly insulting. As I understood the occurrence, It truly, to me, is as different as a wayward wind blowing open your neighbor's bath robe as opposed to your neighbor holding it open.


    Well, that was only the definition of the words. You think that cocksucker is normal slur and okay. That's fine with me. But that's you.
    And if someone call me "riceeater", I shouldn't take offense to that? Because I enjoy eating rice? Do that guy just call me that to assert my Asian heritage or he actually made a derogatory remark to me, meaning Asian or riceeater is something beneath him.
    And that is my point. Whether, a f@g, or a cocksucker, the intent was clear. It is to be offensive.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 5:12 AM GMT
    I remember being a little kid and having friends in a contest to see who could yell the "k" word the loudest across the park. Then they turned to me and without me saying a word but giving a look, realizing I'm Jewish, apologized and cut the crap. They never said that word around me again. I do believe they cut it from their vocabulary.

    Some people don't mean to be idiots. They were little kids not yet very conscious but they figured it out. I believed their apology sincere. I knew then that they did not want to hurt me. They are still my friends. Good people. I was just on the phone with two of them today and yesterday, fifty years later.

    And then as mentioned by Paul there's among friends taking the power out of a word or so some claim. While that might be somewhat true within a group, using the word, as Paul said, as endearment, I don't believe it universal within that group as some will still be offended. There was a Jewish holiday thread started by a Jewish guy who used the "k" word, on I think it was one of the high holy days. I'm not religious but I thought that sort of abominable, if not at least crass. And if anyone could recognize being fucking crass, that'd be me.

    From outside a group, even if it may at times make a valid point or act as an emphasis, as a habit of speech it strikes me as being indicative of ill intent.

    Because by then there seems an intrusiveness of thinking you get to say whatever the fuck ya want, regardless of the feelings of others. And I'd think if that person was of awakening consciousness, that might cause some inner problems. I view that as a path of ever more entangling delusion.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 5:22 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    Some people don't mean to be idiots. They were little kids not yet very conscious but they figured it out. I believed their apology sincere. I knew then that they did not want to hurt me. They are still my friends. Good people. I was just on the phone with two of them today and yesterday, fifty years later.

    Yes, I can see it.
    And about the OP's guy at the bar, if he confronted him, It's possible that the guy would say "I have no problem with gays". And I can see that some people use some derogatory term as endearment too.
    And that's why it's up to people whether they should find that offensive or not. And if they do, the reason is valid.
    So maybe it would be better, to not say it at all.

    Of course if your intention is to be offensive, and you don't give a shit about whom you might offend, then go ahead, and tell them to fuck off.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 1:22 PM GMT
    Don't you also think it's one thing to say kiddingly to a friend who has at least a sense of your sense of humor, and another to scream it in a bar with strangers?

    It is sad to me that it is very unlikely anybody checked this guy's behavior, because that's an "okay" word to use in that setting and if someone was bothered by it he have been socialized not to speak up because of what that would imply about him.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 4:09 PM GMT
    As rude as it might be from a stranger--and you can call them on that pretty quick simply by in that moment making an appointment for a blowjob in front of all his friends assuming you can defend if need be--I think it much more horrible when from someone familiar, even when said as kidding, especially if you've asked them to stop.

    When it became temporarily in vogue to speak negatively of a thing as being gay "that's so gay" my betraying xcousin picked up on that and used it in front of me though I asked her to stop. She tried justifying and all kinds of shit. Pure shit. She really thought that her freedoms to say whatever the fuck brainless thing she pleased were superior to my feelings about what I heard.

    But my mother taught me how to handle this when I was a little kid and decided on my own that I could call my mother by her first name instead of calling her mom which she adored because she loved being my mom. So when I called her by her first name, which I recall only doing once, without skipping a beat she started calling me son instead of using my name. lol. My mommy was a smart woman. That worked on me immediately and by my next sentence she became "Mom" again.

    So I applied that to my cousin who I knew hated the word cunt which she found disrespectful. And so whenever she said something was so gay. I said, no, that's just real cunty. And that, at least, stopped that.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 4:16 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said
    Ronar2 said
    Oceans_of_Flowers said

    ...Or god forbid if there ever was derogatory term for disabled people.


    Gimp and crip readily come to mind. Just in case you were looking for some.
    I mostly use Photoshop and Lightroom for photo editing/retouching, but sometimes I don't need all the bells and whistles, and just use Gimp. icon_wink.gif
    http://www.gimp.org/
    200px-The_GIMP_icon_-_gnome.svg.png
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 15, 2015 4:23 PM GMT
    hy·per·sen·si·tive
    ˌhīpərˈsensədiv/
    adjective
    Abnormally or excessively sensitive, either psychologically or in physical response. May feel hurt or anger over words or actions others are not affected by.
  • Oceans_of_Flo...

    Posts: 393

    Sep 15, 2015 7:24 PM GMT
    Ronar2 said


    Well, that was only the definition of the words. You think that cocksucker is normal slur and okay. That's fine with me. But that's you.
    And if someone call me "riceeater", I shouldn't take offense to that? Because I enjoy eating rice? Do that guy just call me that to assert my Asian heritage or he actually made a derogatory remark to me, meaning Asian or riceeater is something beneath him.
    And that is my point. Whether, a f@g, or a cocksucker, the intent was clear. It is to be offensive
    .

    No, that's not just me because women suck cocks too and according to the threads on this site, so do straight men out of boredom. And last I checked, a burrito isn't a burrito without rice so can we stick with established slurs and not make shit up? FAHG is established and has been used to strike hate at gays, even rice eater is s good argument since rice being associated with Asians has been used to strike hate at them. Cocksucker however, is a taunt, meant to be obnoxious, meant to tease all people, but I don't agree its in the same boat as fag as an established hate term for gays. You can have all the HATE TERMS you want, I'm not denying you that. Can I keep cocksucker? Its a harmless taunt and apparently a national past time. Can it not be smeared with hate?