They say being a gay is a choice

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    Feb 01, 2009 8:10 AM GMT
    I just want to vent a little bit of old resentment here.

    I was born and raised in Indonesia, a country which majority of its population is Muslim and the second majority is christian. The law requires every citizen to have one religion. Yes, my country was a really conservative and homophobic. Every book I read about sex education written by Indonesian doctor categorized homosexual as an illness or abnormal sex intercourse. I found this very disturbing and I found no one to talk to because my family and friends were homophobic either. My sociology teacher was no different, She taught my class about gays as socially disorder people ( I went in front of the class and argue with her and she based her argument on the bible which I couldn't argue any further.). Another time my school was holding sex education for their students, and they were also teaching the same thing about homosexuals, they refer being gay as an illness that is curable.

    I was born as a Christian and Raised in a Christian family. I read about the argument that being gay is a choice and it is a wrong choice (from a christian journal in my church). That makes me think who gives a damn if it's a choice. That is my choice and I am happy with it. I didn't do any harm to others nor the society. They also say that it is not the right choice, because god doesn't like that. For that argument I will say that is that a right choice if I choose to become a straight man even though I don't really like to hump a girl, having kids, and living in a lie. If they say that is the good choice then they are on the path to hell since If I did that I would go to a life full of lie. Every thing I say to my wife would be a lie. I would lie to my family and my friends. For them maybe it is better to lie than being honest because our honesty doesn't fit their way of life, their utopia.

    I also believe that their intention is good which is saving us from afterlife hell, but we also have the term "Road to hell is paved with good intentions"

    Thank you for reading my resentment.. I just had an urge to write this icon_biggrin.gif
  • aidikay

    Posts: 32

    Feb 01, 2009 3:25 PM GMT
    Oh, I so understand about this problem. Why? Because I'm Indonesian too. icon_smile.gif

    I've talked to many Indonesians even the really well-educated ones. They just can't seem to grasp the idea that there are people who operates differently from them. You know, sexually.

    So, for now, I can't make a nice and productive comment for this issue, except that I invite you to watch this nice video.



    And relax. You'll be fine. Indonesia is a decade late in everything anyway. (except for the latest Nokia cell phone)
  • ShawnTX

    Posts: 2484

    Feb 01, 2009 3:49 PM GMT
    Misquoting the bible is a choice.
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    Feb 01, 2009 4:20 PM GMT
    nautilie7 saidThank you for reading my resentment.. I just had an urge to write this icon_biggrin.gif

    You are correct to have resentment, and brave to think as you do, in the place where you lived. Being gay is not a choice, as medical research is proving each day. But those who rely on ancient writings for their beliefs, to the exclusion of all modern scientific evidence, will never listen to you.
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    Feb 01, 2009 4:21 PM GMT
    ShawnTX saidMisquoting the bible is a choice.


    And mis-translating the bible from the original Hebrew / Greek is a choice. icon_neutral.gif
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    Feb 01, 2009 4:22 PM GMT
    peterstrong> its only a choice if u r bisexual

    That's exactly right.

    When someone tells you sexual orientation (not "preference") is a "choice", as them at what age they decided to be heterosexual. They'll probably tell you they always were. Bingo. We were similarly always gay - no choice involved.

    But, as Peter says, if they tell you that it was when they were 10 or 15 or 20... then tell them that means they are bisexual. If you want to mess with them, you can tell them that they are not "normal", that real heterosexuals don't make this "choice".
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    Feb 01, 2009 4:31 PM GMT
    Great Video. Notice at the end that they mention that you can find this information at university libraries except BJU . Should we be surprised?

    /http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/409687

    In some ways the question of choice is splitting hairs. Face it, you can choose to be celibate your whole life which would not make you gay according to the dogma. Neither Homosexuals nor Bisexuals can choose not to feel a homosexual desire. I personally believe that under the right circumstances a homosexual could enjoy heterosexual sex and a heterosexual could enjoy homosexual sex. This is what upsets the religious nuts and leads them to believe it is a choice. What they fail to see is that, just because the hetero may have enjoyed a could BJ from a friend doesn't mean his desire for women goes away. Nor does the gay man's desire for men disappear after enjoying sex with a woman. But most religions teach you to repress most sexual desires which sometimes leads to violence and wars.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Feb 01, 2009 4:37 PM GMT
    ShawnTX saidMisquoting the bible is a choice.


    No Truer words have been said icon_wink.gif
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    Feb 01, 2009 4:48 PM GMT
    As they say, "even the devil can quote scripture".
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    Feb 01, 2009 4:50 PM GMT
    Selectively quoting the Bible is a frequent technique:

    excerpted from an internet discussion....

    "When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

    I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

    1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

    Why can't I own Canadians??

    2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

    4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

    6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

    7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wriggle-room here?

    8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

    9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14) "



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    Feb 01, 2009 4:59 PM GMT
    Bill202Are there 'degrees' of abomination?


    icon_eek.gif

    LOL - So funny. great post man! I was/am a Ron Paul man myself, but I do not think the Obamanation is a likely abomination like some of our friends fear, lol.
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    Feb 01, 2009 5:13 PM GMT
    For a little word play, the word for "abomination" in the original Hebrew is "to'evah" (תּוֹעֵבָה). You might recall that the Hebrew alphabet has no vowels, that these appear as dots and lines around letters. What you may not know is that the letters V and B are the same, distinguished by the presence of a dot inside the B. And that the original Biblical text had no spaces between words. So if we change "toevah" to "to'e bah" (טועה בָה) we get "doing wrong by her". A local gay rabbi explains: if a married man lies with a man as he would with a woman, it is still adultry.

    It's cute, but it's wrong. Hebrew happens to have 2 different letters representing the "T" sound, and "To'e" (error) and To'evah happen to use different letters for "T". (I spelled them correctly above, so you can see that the first letter, that's the one on the right, is different.)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 01, 2009 5:37 PM GMT
    for the record i am not A 'Gay' im a human who happens to be gay.

    i know yall couldnt go on with your lives without me clearing that up icon_wink.gif
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    Feb 01, 2009 5:45 PM GMT
    Bill202 saidSelectively quoting the Bible is a frequent technique:

    excerpted from an internet discussion....

    "When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.









    Homosexual lifestyle? Sounds pretty cult-ish to me. icon_neutral.gif

    Here's what Leviticus 18:22 actually says: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

    It's not a blanket prohibition of male/male intimacy: It's about IDOLATRY and the practices of fertility cults; practices that often emasculated the man in his role within the cult (via anal penetration)!

    Using a little common sense one can even derive that their IS a qualifier in this verse. It doesn't say " When a man lies with a man(.)" It says," When a man lies with a man AS ONE LIES WITH a woman..." This statement means is clearly only condemning a certain act, not all male/male intimacy.

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    Feb 01, 2009 6:17 PM GMT
    Was being gay a choice for you? No, it wasn't.
    So you can automatically discount the opinion of those who claim it is. They're wrong, whether they want to admit it or not.
    And if people really thought about it, most would realize they didn't choose to be hetero.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 01, 2009 6:30 PM GMT
    It was a choice for me one morning I woke up and said my life isn't complicated enough, now I'm sophisticatedicon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 02, 2009 12:58 AM GMT
    I have a book "The Unhappy Gays" by Tim LaHaye, which I bought at a Los Angeles bookstore in 1978. LaHaye is an Evangelical Christian who has interviewed a large number of gays during his ministry. He writes that there are a percentage of baby boys (about 25%) born with a Melancholy temperament, one of the four "humours" postulated by the ancient Greek Hippocrates. A few of these develop a "Predisposition towards Homosexuality" but this does not make the person homosexual. In other words there are many of them who eventually grow up straight. But there are some who starts having same sex fantasies which will multiply into same sex experiences. Tim LaHaye gives these two charts:

    COMPONENTS FOR DEVELOPING A HOMOSEXUAL DISPOSITION

    Melancholy Temperament
    +
    Permissive Childhood Training
    +
    Insecurity about Sexual Identity
    +
    Childhood Sexual Experiences
    +
    Early Interest in Sex
    +
    Youthful Masturbator
    and Sexual Fantasizer
    --------------------------------------------------------
    A Predisposition toward Homosexuality.

    There is a footnote saying that quite a percentage of these do not go on to have a sexual experience, and they grow up straight. He wrote that two additional causes may be attributed, namely,
    Smother Mothers
    Dominant Mothers,
    Absent or passive Fathers (in both cases).
    LaHaye also describes social and peer pressures which may influence the child in certain ways, such as "Your'e a cissy, you can't play football or baseball". This, according to LaHaye, may make a child believe that he should have been a girl. If the boy's father wanted a girl to compliment his older brother, and therefore feels rejected by Dad, this would compound the problem, along with the teasing at school. Mother compensates by adding an unhealthy level of affection, to be in effect a "mother's boy".
    Lahaye then describes this boy as submitting to the first same sex experience which would catapult him into the gay lifestyle, thus:

    THE FORMULA FOR PRODUCING A HOMOSEXUAL

    A Predisposition Towards Homosexuality
    +
    That First Homosexual Experience
    x
    Pleasurable and Positive Homosexual Thoughts
    +
    More Homosexual Experiences
    x
    More Pleasurable Thoughts
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A Homosexual

    Because all this began at early childhood, it is easy to assume that one is born gay and has something to do with gestation.
    Take myself as an example, I have a fetish for tall, slim men (check my Hot List), even if I'm married to a female and have fathered three children. Two things I clearly recall, a) that in my preteen days I was attracted to girls only, and b) my father wanted a daughter, not a son. Although he treated me well as a boy should be treated, the rejection was felt in my subconscious. My younger brother, who was actually preferred by Dad for being of a smaller stature, is completely straight.
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    Feb 02, 2009 2:11 AM GMT



    Well, to clear things up, I'm taking this test.

    Melancholy Temperament - Nope.
    +
    Permissive Childhood Training - My Dad laughs out loud from across the Veil. Mom was a velvet steam-roller. You got away with nothing.
    +
    Insecurity about Sexual Identity - No to that, too.
    +
    Childhood Sexual Experiences - if 17 is a child, then yes, but just myself with me...heheh
    +
    Early Interest in Sex.... not til 15 - is that early?
    +
    Youthful Masturbator - at 16 I asked my brother what this hard-on thing was. He blushed beet red and said to ask Dad. I did.



    and Sexual Fantasizer - 14 - 15 again.


    .....er, so what am I? Bill says 'gay'. I think Mr LaHaye would say straight.